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Wacky Clutch



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 17th 04, 07:59 PM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wacky Clutch

'02 TJ with 4L and NV3550:

Anybody have a clue as to what would make clutch disengagement
intermittent???

I'm driving through a little village and press the clutch pedal to change
gears, and _nothing_ happens - the clutch remains engaged. I force it into
neutral, then can't get it into any gear at all. No amount of clutch pedal
pumping makes any difference. Not rolling anymore, I shut the motor off and
put it into first gear, then start it up with the clutch pedal pushed in.
The TJ lurches a little bit, the the clutch "breaks free" and everything is
completely normal for the three mile drive home, clutch is working fine.

The powertrain is still nominally under warranty, so I call the dealer and
make an appointed. The fifteen mile trip to the dealer is completely normal,
clutch working fine. Naturally, after keeping it for a couple of days,
Dealer calls and says there's nothing wrong with it.

What gives? Could this somehow be related to the increasing noisiness for
the normally noisy NV3550?

/Peter


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  #2  
Old December 17th 04, 08:06 PM
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

LOL!

Haven't done that for a while, funny....

It froze on. Literally.

Hit any puddles just before?

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> '02 TJ with 4L and NV3550:
>
> Anybody have a clue as to what would make clutch disengagement
> intermittent???
>
> I'm driving through a little village and press the clutch pedal to change
> gears, and _nothing_ happens - the clutch remains engaged. I force it into
> neutral, then can't get it into any gear at all. No amount of clutch pedal
> pumping makes any difference. Not rolling anymore, I shut the motor off and
> put it into first gear, then start it up with the clutch pedal pushed in.
> The TJ lurches a little bit, the the clutch "breaks free" and everything is
> completely normal for the three mile drive home, clutch is working fine.
>
> The powertrain is still nominally under warranty, so I call the dealer and
> make an appointed. The fifteen mile trip to the dealer is completely normal,
> clutch working fine. Naturally, after keeping it for a couple of days,
> Dealer calls and says there's nothing wrong with it.
>
> What gives? Could this somehow be related to the increasing noisiness for
> the normally noisy NV3550?
>
> /Peter

  #3  
Old December 17th 04, 08:44 PM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No, no puddles that I recall. They would have been frozen anyway. It hasn't
been offroaded since before freeze-up, so it's not like I just did some
fording or something.

I can't say I've ever heard of a clutch being literally frozen before.

So the intermittent warm idle "thunk thunk thunk" from the bellhousing and
the new bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in
sounds are unlikely to be related to this disengagement anomaly? (The new
bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in sound is not
the same as the old
bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-in-neutral-with-clutch-out sound.
The latter is standard NV3550 fare I gather.)

/Peter



"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> LOL!
>
> Haven't done that for a while, funny....
>
> It froze on. Literally.
>
> Hit any puddles just before?
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> >
> > '02 TJ with 4L and NV3550:
> >
> > Anybody have a clue as to what would make clutch disengagement
> > intermittent???
> >
> > I'm driving through a little village and press the clutch pedal to

change
> > gears, and _nothing_ happens - the clutch remains engaged. I force it

into
> > neutral, then can't get it into any gear at all. No amount of clutch

pedal
> > pumping makes any difference. Not rolling anymore, I shut the motor off

and
> > put it into first gear, then start it up with the clutch pedal pushed

in.
> > The TJ lurches a little bit, the the clutch "breaks free" and everything

is
> > completely normal for the three mile drive home, clutch is working fine.
> >
> > The powertrain is still nominally under warranty, so I call the dealer

and
> > make an appointed. The fifteen mile trip to the dealer is completely

normal,
> > clutch working fine. Naturally, after keeping it for a couple of days,
> > Dealer calls and says there's nothing wrong with it.
> >
> > What gives? Could this somehow be related to the increasing noisiness

for
> > the normally noisy NV3550?
> >
> > /Peter



  #4  
Old December 17th 04, 08:53 PM
Mike Romain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ouch....

That could be something like a broken part that jammed the slave before
falling to the bottom. Does yours have an inspection plate on the
bottom you can open to see if any 'fingers' are laying around down
there?

Mike

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> No, no puddles that I recall. They would have been frozen anyway. It hasn't
> been offroaded since before freeze-up, so it's not like I just did some
> fording or something.
>
> I can't say I've ever heard of a clutch being literally frozen before.
>
> So the intermittent warm idle "thunk thunk thunk" from the bellhousing and
> the new bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in
> sounds are unlikely to be related to this disengagement anomaly? (The new
> bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in sound is not
> the same as the old
> bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-in-neutral-with-clutch-out sound.
> The latter is standard NV3550 fare I gather.)
>
> /Peter
>
> "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> ...
> > LOL!
> >
> > Haven't done that for a while, funny....
> >
> > It froze on. Literally.
> >
> > Hit any puddles just before?
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > >
> > > '02 TJ with 4L and NV3550:
> > >
> > > Anybody have a clue as to what would make clutch disengagement
> > > intermittent???
> > >
> > > I'm driving through a little village and press the clutch pedal to

> change
> > > gears, and _nothing_ happens - the clutch remains engaged. I force it

> into
> > > neutral, then can't get it into any gear at all. No amount of clutch

> pedal
> > > pumping makes any difference. Not rolling anymore, I shut the motor off

> and
> > > put it into first gear, then start it up with the clutch pedal pushed

> in.
> > > The TJ lurches a little bit, the the clutch "breaks free" and everything

> is
> > > completely normal for the three mile drive home, clutch is working fine.
> > >
> > > The powertrain is still nominally under warranty, so I call the dealer

> and
> > > make an appointed. The fifteen mile trip to the dealer is completely

> normal,
> > > clutch working fine. Naturally, after keeping it for a couple of days,
> > > Dealer calls and says there's nothing wrong with it.
> > >
> > > What gives? Could this somehow be related to the increasing noisiness

> for
> > > the normally noisy NV3550?
> > >
> > > /Peter

  #5  
Old December 17th 04, 09:57 PM
L.W.(ßill) Hughes III
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Peter,
Sounds like the pressure plate or the dampener springs in the disk
are coming apart and jamming their release, it may be a rock in there,
but not if your luck is like mine. That's if the clutch pedal wouldn't
go to the floor, if it does that's in the hydraulics.
God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
http://www.billhughes.com/

Peter Pontbriand wrote:
>
> No, no puddles that I recall. They would have been frozen anyway. It hasn't
> been offroaded since before freeze-up, so it's not like I just did some
> fording or something.
>
> I can't say I've ever heard of a clutch being literally frozen before.
>
> So the intermittent warm idle "thunk thunk thunk" from the bellhousing and
> the new bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in
> sounds are unlikely to be related to this disengagement anomaly? (The new
> bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in sound is not
> the same as the old
> bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-in-neutral-with-clutch-out sound.
> The latter is standard NV3550 fare I gather.)
>
> /Peter

  #6  
Old December 17th 04, 11:42 PM
JimG
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

My first guess was... air lock in the hydraulic line. But you have
rattle... that ain't right!. The $teeler not hear that? Mine don't do that
(different tranny, but still?)!

--
JimG
80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI
4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R
35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines
D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA
Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries

00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp
4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear
33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys
D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift


"Peter Pontbriand" wrote in message ...
> No, no puddles that I recall. They would have been frozen anyway. It

hasn't
> been offroaded since before freeze-up, so it's not like I just did some
> fording or something.
>
> I can't say I've ever heard of a clutch being literally frozen before.
>
> So the intermittent warm idle "thunk thunk thunk" from the bellhousing and
> the new bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in
> sounds are unlikely to be related to this disengagement anomaly? (The new
> bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in sound is

not
> the same as the old
> bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-in-neutral-with-clutch-out sound.
> The latter is standard NV3550 fare I gather.)



  #7  
Old December 18th 04, 01:24 AM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I just picked it up from the "there's nothing wrong with it" dealer. While
there, I asked if they had taken off the inspection plate and taken a look
inside. They hadn't. I asked what they thought of the "thunk thunk thunk"
and marbles-in-can sounds, and they said they didn't hear anything unusual.
But then, if they had I'd bet they would have charged me - at least the bill
was only $0.00 for them to simply drive it around and declare there's
nothing wrong. The sounds are definitely still there, but the clutch is
still working fine now.

By the way, the "thunk thunk thunk" sound can be felt too, notably in the
brake pedal. There's something hitting something somewhere, but I'll be
jiggered if I can figure out what.

/Peter

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
...
> Ouch....
>
> That could be something like a broken part that jammed the slave before
> falling to the bottom. Does yours have an inspection plate on the
> bottom you can open to see if any 'fingers' are laying around down
> there?
>
> Mike
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> >
> > No, no puddles that I recall. They would have been frozen anyway. It

hasn't
> > been offroaded since before freeze-up, so it's not like I just did some
> > fording or something.
> >
> > I can't say I've ever heard of a clutch being literally frozen before.
> >
> > So the intermittent warm idle "thunk thunk thunk" from the bellhousing

and
> > the new bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in
> > sounds are unlikely to be related to this disengagement anomaly? (The

new
> > bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in sound is

not
> > the same as the old
> > bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-in-neutral-with-clutch-out

sound.
> > The latter is standard NV3550 fare I gather.)
> >
> > /Peter
> >
> > "Mike Romain" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > LOL!
> > >
> > > Haven't done that for a while, funny....
> > >
> > > It froze on. Literally.
> > >
> > > Hit any puddles just before?
> > >
> > > Mike
> > > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> > >
> > > Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> > > >
> > > > '02 TJ with 4L and NV3550:
> > > >
> > > > Anybody have a clue as to what would make clutch disengagement
> > > > intermittent???
> > > >
> > > > I'm driving through a little village and press the clutch pedal to

> > change
> > > > gears, and _nothing_ happens - the clutch remains engaged. I force

it
> > into
> > > > neutral, then can't get it into any gear at all. No amount of clutch

> > pedal
> > > > pumping makes any difference. Not rolling anymore, I shut the motor

off
> > and
> > > > put it into first gear, then start it up with the clutch pedal

pushed
> > in.
> > > > The TJ lurches a little bit, the the clutch "breaks free" and

everything
> > is
> > > > completely normal for the three mile drive home, clutch is working

fine.
> > > >
> > > > The powertrain is still nominally under warranty, so I call the

dealer
> > and
> > > > make an appointed. The fifteen mile trip to the dealer is completely

> > normal,
> > > > clutch working fine. Naturally, after keeping it for a couple of

days,
> > > > Dealer calls and says there's nothing wrong with it.
> > > >
> > > > What gives? Could this somehow be related to the increasing

noisiness
> > for
> > > > the normally noisy NV3550?
> > > >
> > > > /Peter



  #8  
Old December 18th 04, 01:26 AM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

When it happened, the clutch pedal did go to the floor, yet there's no leaks
and everything with the clutch action has gone back to normal of its own
accord. Only the odd sounds/vibrations remain.

/Peter

"L.W. (ßill) Hughes III" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Peter,
> Sounds like the pressure plate or the dampener springs in the disk
> are coming apart and jamming their release, it may be a rock in there,
> but not if your luck is like mine. That's if the clutch pedal wouldn't
> go to the floor, if it does that's in the hydraulics.
> God Bless America, ßill O|||||||O
> http://www.billhughes.com/
>
> Peter Pontbriand wrote:
> >
> > No, no puddles that I recall. They would have been frozen anyway. It

hasn't
> > been offroaded since before freeze-up, so it's not like I just did some
> > fording or something.
> >
> > I can't say I've ever heard of a clutch being literally frozen before.
> >
> > So the intermittent warm idle "thunk thunk thunk" from the bellhousing

and
> > the new bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in
> > sounds are unlikely to be related to this disengagement anomaly? (The

new
> > bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in sound is

not
> > the same as the old
> > bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-in-neutral-with-clutch-out

sound.
> > The latter is standard NV3550 fare I gather.)
> >
> > /Peter



  #9  
Old December 18th 04, 01:32 AM
Peter Pontbriand
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Would an air lock just magically disappear? And no, the dealer claims to
have heard nothing unusual. I suspect they didn't drive it enough to
experience the "thunk thunk thunk" business, since it only does that when
fully warmed up.

The NV3550 is known to be a noisy transmission. Mine always has been noisy
when idling in neutral. What's changed recently is that now it makes the
same noise when coasting in gear with the clutch pedal depressed, perhaps
even louder. It didn't do that for the three years I've owned it and now
it's just started. New sounds make me think _something_ is wrong, but it
seems the dealer does not concur.

/Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: "JimG" >
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 5:42 PM
Subject: Wacky Clutch


> My first guess was... air lock in the hydraulic line. But you have
> rattle... that ain't right!. The $teeler not hear that? Mine don't do

that
> (different tranny, but still?)!
>
> --
> JimG
> 80' CJ-7 258 CID, HEI
> 4.56 Gears, Lock-Right F&R
> 35" BFG MT on 15x10 Centerlines
> D44 Rear, D30 Front. SOA
> Dana 300 w/4:1 & Currie twin sticks
> Warn X8000i w/ dual batteries
>
> 00' TJ Sport 4.0L, 5sp
> 4.56 Gears, TrueTrac rear
> 33" BFG AT on 15x8 Eagle Alloys
> D35 Rear, D30 Front. 3" Suspension Lift
>
>
> "Peter Pontbriand" wrote in message ...
> > No, no puddles that I recall. They would have been frozen anyway. It

> hasn't
> > been offroaded since before freeze-up, so it's not like I just did some
> > fording or something.
> >
> > I can't say I've ever heard of a clutch being literally frozen before.
> >
> > So the intermittent warm idle "thunk thunk thunk" from the bellhousing

and
> > the new bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in
> > sounds are unlikely to be related to this disengagement anomaly? (The

new
> > bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-coasting-with-clutch-in sound is

> not
> > the same as the old
> > bunch-of-marbles-rattling-in-a-can-when-in-neutral-with-clutch-out

sound.
> > The latter is standard NV3550 fare I gather.)

>
>



  #10  
Old December 18th 04, 01:43 AM
DougW
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Peter Pontbriand did pass the time by typing:
> When it happened, the clutch pedal did go to the floor, yet there's no leaks
> and everything with the clutch action has gone back to normal of its own
> accord. Only the odd sounds/vibrations remain.


Just my 2c, but I'd be tearing it apart to look.

--
DougW


 




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