toyo tires scoring low in a test

Lanny Chambers > wrote:

>In article >,
> (Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
>
>> Tire Rack performs its own tire testing;
>> obviously the choice of the tires that they sell will be based
>> at least in part on how well the tires perform in their tests.
>
>Untrue.

This too is a statement without merit. You have no way of looking
in the minds of the people who are running Tire Rack.

> They carry tires that (1) move well at a decent profit, and (2)
>manufacturers are willing to sell them.

Neither is in contradiction of my statement in even the most remote
sense. One does not exclude the other.

In fact, anyone with some common sense can see that my statement is
simply unavoidable, rather than untrue as you assert. Tire Rack are
taking the expense and effort to test tires where others do not.

> Toyo isn't interested in making
>Tire Rack one of its dealers, for reasons that reportedly have nothing
>to do with tire performance. (All of this is from statements by a TR rep
>on miataforum.)

It is possible that Toyo has some reason not to want its tires to be
distributed by Tire Rack. It seems stupid, in view of Toyo's poor
distribution, but it is conceivable as far as I know.

However, taking the word of a *Toyo representative* as authoritative for
that statement is incorrect. Am I to believe that the representative
would really say *on record* "Tire Rack does not want to carry our tires
because they did really bad in their tests, and Tire Rack thinks there
does not seem to be enough of a popular market to make up for it."?

If that statement is not an option, than the claim "It is *us Toyo*
that did not want *Tire Rack* to carry our tires" is meaningless
too: it will be made regardless of what the facts may be.

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)

Leon van Dommelen wrote:

>> Toyo isn't interested in making
>> Tire Rack one of its dealers, for reasons that reportedly have nothing
>> to do with tire performance. (All of this is from statements by a TR rep
>> on miataforum.)
>
> It is possible that Toyo has some reason not to want its tires to be
> distributed by Tire Rack. It seems stupid, in view of Toyo's poor
> distribution, but it is conceivable as far as I know.
>
> However, taking the word of a *Toyo representative* as authoritative for
> that statement is incorrect. Am I to believe that the representative
> would really say *on record* "Tire Rack does not want to carry our tires
> because they did really bad in their tests, and Tire Rack thinks there
> does not seem to be enough of a popular market to make up for it."?

Lanny's report that Toyo isn't interested in making TireRack a dealer,
for reasons having nothing to do with tire performance, suggests that
TireRack's testing program - whether there is one or not - is irrelevant.

It sounds to me that Toyo seems intent on protecting an existing network
of dealers. Direct internet sales is highly-disruptive and the bricks-and-
mortar dealers still have an advantage - they provide the necessary mounting
services. This is TireRack's weak point, but evolution is inevitable. Tire
shops will become the point-of-delivery for tires regardless of the way the
tires are ordered (online or point-of-sale).

Dana

In article >,
(Leon van Dommelen) wrote:

> > Toyo isn't interested in making
> >Tire Rack one of its dealers, for reasons that reportedly have nothing
> >to do with tire performance. (All of this is from statements by a TR rep
> >on miataforum.)
>
> It is possible that Toyo has some reason not to want its tires to be
> distributed by Tire Rack. It seems stupid, in view of Toyo's poor
> distribution, but it is conceivable as far as I know.
>
> However, taking the word of a *Toyo representative* as authoritative for
> that statement is incorrect.

Leon, Leon, Leon. Go back and start over, after your epiphany that "TR"
means "Tire Rack."

--
Lanny Chambers
'94C, St. Louis
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

In article >,
"Dana H. Myers" > wrote:

> It sounds to me that Toyo seems intent on protecting an existing network
> of dealers.

That is my understanding. They do permit a few online vendors to sell
their tires, but not huge outfits such as Tire Rack. Most online Toyo
prices aren't much (if any) less than at a local dealer. The famous
onlinetires.com deal on 195/50-15 is a notable exception that probably
has very little impact on Toyo dealer relations.

--
Lanny Chambers
'94C, St. Louis
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

Lanny Chambers > wrote:

>In article >,
> (Leon van Dommelen) wrote:
>
>> > Toyo isn't interested in making
>> >Tire Rack one of its dealers, for reasons that reportedly have nothing
>> >to do with tire performance. (All of this is from statements by a TR rep
>> >on miataforum.)
>>
>> It is possible that Toyo has some reason not to want its tires to be
>> distributed by Tire Rack. It seems stupid, in view of Toyo's poor
>> distribution, but it is conceivable as far as I know.
>>
>> However, taking the word of a *Toyo representative* as authoritative for
>> that statement is incorrect.
>
>Leon, Leon, Leon. Go back and start over, after your epiphany that "TR"
>means "Tire Rack."

OK, I misread that. Tire Rack would seem to have little reason to lie
about it. As I said, it was conceivable, (though it still seems stupid
on Toyo's part.) Anyway, it does not contradict my point.

Leon
--
Leon van Dommelen Bozo, the White 96 Sebring Miata .)
http://www.dommelen.net/miata
EXIT THE INTERSTATES (Jamie Jensen)

To add a little nonsense to this discussion.
Currently have a set of of the Eagle F1 GS-D3s on my '93 (160k mi.).
Wanted to try something with top performance. Looked at the Toyos, and
for me the price was about the same. I was worried that the Toyo tread
life would be worse, so tried the Eagles. Running 195/50 15.

I haven't pushed them really hard in wet/dry so can't vouch for
ultimate stick yet, (only on about 2kmi. so far). I do not do track or
autocross. An I am an older guy (>50) so I work into the limits slowly,
but I haven't found the limits on these yet.

Turn in/steering response is the best of anything I have had on the car
to date.
Noise level is good. As to be expected in this class of tire, more
small defect/surface texture noise than a touring type tire, but not
much. Certainly acceptable.
Tramlining is very noticeable when the tire is cold, but becomes almost
negligible when the tire warms up. (Tread/sidewall very stiff until
tire reaches operating temperature.)
Haven't had them in a good downpour, but also haven't felt any of the
rear break away on sharp corner in the wet with a little throttle. I
can drive in the wet I've been in so far with only a modest speed
reduction from dry. So the wet response seems to be very good.

We are supposed to get snow tonight/tomorrow so I may see what happens
to them with a little of the slippery out there before putting the
snows on. Will report back if the snow does fall.

In general about tires on the Miata.
This is only my experiences and comments based on my driving but it may
help some others.
I have had this Miata since it was born, so all those miles are mine.
Live in southeast PA and have a mix of weather and roads. At one point
I commuted daily into Philadelphia (about 50 mi. one way daily) but no
longer have to deal with that. The Miata is the best car I have ever
owned from a maintenance point of view. Still have the original clutch
and exhaust! I have the most fun with any car on twisty 2 lane
blacktop, and love finding the best line through entrance/exit ramps.

As is generally commented, the Miata can be sensitive to tires. The
original Bridgestones (not sure which model) that were on the car were
good in the dry, not so good in the wet, but were surprisingly good in
the snow and ice.
I didn't like the breakaway feel that they had. They were pretty
abrupt, and broke with a spongy feel that did not inspire confidence.

I had tried some of the lower cost Dunlop and Pirelli tires in my many
miles. These were a waste of money. Cheaper tires tend not the stay
balanced well, don't offer anywhere near the grip the Miata is capable
of and will be nothing but a disappointment to most drivers. Remember
the Miata is light, and any slight defects in the tires become quickly
apparent. Heavier cars with less road feedback mask out these same
small variations so may never be noticed in another car. None of the
cheaper tires were acceptable to me in the rain. Forward traction in
the wet was okay, but they would break away quickly with a little
throttle in the turns.

The Yokohama ES 100 is probably one of the lowest cost performance
tires I would try on the Miata. I might also try the Yokohama Avid HS4
if I had to deal with only very occasionally slippery stuff and needed
a general commuting tire. I have those on another car right now, and
will see shortly how they behave in the slippery.

I would also recommend the Dunlop SP Sport 5000 as a good upper
performance tire for the Miata. Had those on for a good while in the
Asymmetric 195/50 15 size. Good wet traction till they got down to
about 1/3 remaining tread. No tramlining. Nice breakaway indication
and response. The most enjoyable tire I had on the Miata till trying
the Eagles. They were even capable of limited snow/ice driving, but
that fell away quickly as they accumulated mileage and age. But then
again I have had snows for about 4 years now for the more extreme
winter driving.

So the summary of what I am saying is if you put $50 tires on the Miata
it is a car, and not even a very good one. Raise that to $75 or more
and then it starts to become what it was designed to be.

---------------
budjoe
'93 White (photon efficient)