LT4 sludge problem

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi, Dad...
> Pretty low opinion of me, eh? Well, the car was repaired one month
> ago
> and the oil was changed.

Oh quit your whining, I never said I had a low opinion of you, and you
never said how long ago the repair was made. I do have an opinon of
how you treat your Corvette or lack of it's use, but that's your
business.

>The old oil was 6 month old and came out of
> the bottom looking nearly new.

You watched it being changed but you can't check your cars oil?

> The sludge formed in the 100 miles since the repair (1 month). I
> drove
> the car 3 times
> during that period...two trips of 50 miles each...plenty of time for
> it
> to warm up properly).
>
How many times did you shut it off and restart to make those 3 or 2
trips? What about the other 723 times you drove it before that at 3
miles a pop? Plenty of time to warm up? One or two times not getting
to running temperature don't make ash form.

> On line answers are perfectly fine....I just didn't want to take up
> too
> much bandwidth hence the comment about answering off line.

Yeah, right, you would be the first.

>What could have happened to make the oil sludge
> up?

I thought you sent it off to be tested but you want us to guess?

>Certainly neglect except I have the service record to prove that it
> wasn't neglected.

That only proves it was serviced, not how it was maintained or driven
which can be where it was neglected if it was neglect. My statement
had nothing to do with that kind of neglect, get over it.

>Fuel in the oil from an improperly repaired
> rocker/pushrod? Coolant in the oil from a blown head gasket or other
> gasket installed during the repair.

None of these relate to changing a rocker arm or push rod.

>I did tell the mechanic
> that the low coolant light had come on during the 100 miles of
> driving
> since the repair.
>
You told him but didn't check it? How odd.

> My note to the group was an honest effort to try to figure out what
> went wrong. I should have know that it would bring the trolls out.
>
There you go with the name calling, try to tell us what really
happened or what you're trying to accomplish and the troll will go
away.

> SR
> Steve

Did you check the oil at anytime after it was fixed?
Was that new oil dark?
Did they pull the lifters when they changed the rockers and push rods?
Did they pull the manifold and clean the valley?
Was it their, Chevrolet's, mechanic that did the work?
Did you get a look at the parts that were replaced?
If so, were they dirty with ash or just stained?
What was the reason they were replaced?
What did the roller look like?
Was the end of the push rod broken?
If so, did it damage the rocker socket?
If so why didn't they change the lifter?
Did you keep the parts?
When you started hearing the "noise again", did you check the oil?
Was it the same" It shouldn't have been.
Where in the 100 miles did the oil pressure start to drop?
Did you check the oil when it did drop?

I would never rule out the job may have been screwed up but with what
you've told me you are the suspect. You seem to know very little about
your car and want to share less, just blame someone else for its
failure.

Now the group troll, Dad

> The sludge formed in the 100 miles since the repair (1 month). I drove
> the car 3 times
> during that period...two trips of 50 miles each...plenty of time for it
> to warm up properly).
>


Jeez,

The man's out 10 grand and we dog pile on him?

Sounds like the lab analysis will be the key. Don't see that you have any
recourse no matter what they find unless the Mobil 1 is at fault.
Hopefully, you can have the motor rebuilt. Maybe a slight bore job and
maybe a new crank. And a new..................................

Good luck, Ed

On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:27:38 -0700, > wrote:

> My note to the group was an honest effort to try to figure out what
> went wrong. I should have know that it would bring the trolls out.
>
> SR
> Steve
>

First, don't let the barbs get under your skin (you seem to be shrugging
off the hostility well). I offered some free wallpaper of Ferrari pix,
because I know quite a few Vette lovers who appreciate Ferraris, and the
only response I got was an extremely rude one. That's usenet for ya.

Second, I can relate to the comments about the bad things which happen to
collector cars. I was shopping for a real-low-miles C4 (and finally found
one). i had the help of an all-Corvette mechanic and he sniffed and poked
around a long parade of prospects. I could tell you horror
stories...bottom line is, aside from bad gas and dried-out rubber parts,
many bad things do indeed happen to cars that are "just started up" on a
regular basis. I looked at a few high-compression cars which hadn't been
driven enough for the simple reason that it was a hassle to prepare cars
that didn't like pump gas--in order to really drive them, I mean. And then
there's the horse thing. You know: "rode hard and put away wet"? It's
funny how many people will gladly detail the body and interior before
replacing the car cover, but don't prepare the mechanical part of the
beast for a long sleep.

I once did photography for a guy who restored Ferraris. ***Those who can't
stand this OT stuff can move on to the next paragraph.*** He gave me some
very good advice about sports cars: never even start the engine if you're
not going to warm it up to operating temperature, and never work it hard
until it reaches operating temperature. Operating temperature he defined
as normal operating range on the OIL temp gauge, not the water temp.

As to your sludge thing, I'm not familiar with fuel in the oil, but
coolant in the oil looks light brown and opaque; pretty distinctive, like
chocolate milk almost. If yours is nearly black, and some parts are coated
with a lacquer-like substance, I'd have to go along with the theory of too
many short trips or running it too much without "blowing out the carbon,"
as mold man used to say...

--
Angelo

'Key wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> I own a 96 Collector Edition LT4/6 speed. I bought it new
>> and have only
>> 16,000 miles on
>> it.It is kept in a locked garage when not in use. I have
>> religiously
>> had this car serviced by Chevrolet and have used only
>> Mobil 1 synthetic
>> oil. About one month ago, I started hearing noise from the
>> left valve
>> conver. I brought the car in for service and the mechanic
>> replaced 3
>> rocker arms and three pushrods. The oil had been freshly
>> changed.
>>
>> Within 100 miles I experienced an engine failure.The same
>> noise started
>> from the valve train and within a few miles the motor
>> stopped. The
>> engine temp at the time it stopped was 198F and the oil
>> temp was 210F
>> but the oil pressure had dropped to nearly 0 psi The
>> failure was due to
>> the fact that the engine oil had turned to a thick sludge
>> and the
>> mechanic says that the engine is ruined. Unfortunately, up
>> to now, the
>> dealership insists that they have no responsibility for
>> fixing (or
>> replacing) the engine. I have taken a sample of the sludge
>> and sent it
>> to a lab for analysis to try to find out why it turned to
>> sludge.
>>
>> I have several questions for the group:
>>
>> 1. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing happening?

Yes but in a Toyota Avalon -- see below
>>
>> 2. Since the LT4 engine was a limited edition motor and
>> seems not to be
>> available anymore, if Ido have to make an engine swap, can
>> anyone
>> recommend an aftermarket or crate engine that will fit
>> this car without
>> modifications?
>>
>> Any advice from the group on how to proceed? Please reply
>> off list to
>> me at .
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve Reichlyn
>
> ya didn't drive it enough..
>
> my2¢

Yeah, not driving it enough or not changing the oil often enough is
probably to blame. Might have made it in a desert climate with only
1600 miles per year. Climate in Charleston is a different matter.
Synthetics tend to pull more moisture than conventional oils. Using
something like GTX in a limited driving situation might have prevented
the sludge.

Another possible problem: Draining crankcases is going out of style.
If the dealer was using extraction to scavenge the crankcase, was the
dipstick suction probe making it all the way to the bottom of the pan?
Friend from church had a '98 Avalon sludge up and die at 21K miles with
changes a couple of times each year. The local Toyota dealer was using
"extraction" to change oil--this saves a bunch of money. I don't know
what oil Toyota was putting in the car. So far Toyota and the dealer
are both standing tough with the guy. Car was out of warranty and they
are turning a blind eye to his service receipts.

Couple of web sites. Second one focuses on bike oil but discusses some
changes Mobil 1 has made in their synthetics:

<<
http://www.maintenanceresources.com/...lysis/oa-m.htm >>

<< http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/motoroil.htm >>

--
PJ
'89 Hookercar '02 e-blu coupe

I have heard that even if you don't drive a car very often you should change
the oil periodically, especially synthetic, don't know why or how often.
Have you asked mobil one folks? I think, Two Guys had
a show on this very problem.

personally i would rebuild your engine, how bad could it be?

DR
(sleek '96 vette bonb)

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>I own a 96 Collector Edition LT4/6 speed. I bought it new and have only
> 16,000 miles on
> it.It is kept in a locked garage when not in use. I have religiously
> had this car serviced by Chevrolet and have used only Mobil 1 synthetic
> oil. About one month ago, I started hearing noise from the left valve
> conver. I brought the car in for service and the mechanic replaced 3
> rocker arms and three pushrods. The oil had been freshly changed.
>
> Within 100 miles I experienced an engine failure.The same noise started
> from the valve train and within a few miles the motor stopped. The
> engine temp at the time it stopped was 198F and the oil temp was 210F
> but the oil pressure had dropped to nearly 0 psi The failure was due to
> the fact that the engine oil had turned to a thick sludge and the
> mechanic says that the engine is ruined. Unfortunately, up to now, the
> dealership insists that they have no responsibility for fixing (or
> replacing) the engine. I have taken a sample of the sludge and sent it
> to a lab for analysis to try to find out why it turned to sludge.
>
> I have several questions for the group:
>
> 1. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing happening?
>
> 2. Since the LT4 engine was a limited edition motor and seems not to be
> available anymore, if Ido have to make an engine swap, can anyone
> recommend an aftermarket or crate engine that will fit this car without
> modifications?
>
> Any advice from the group on how to proceed? Please reply off list to
> me at .
>
> Thanks,
> Steve Reichlyn
>

'Key wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> I own a 96 Collector Edition LT4/6 speed. I bought it new
>> and have only
>> 16,000 miles on
>> it.It is kept in a locked garage when not in use. I have
>> religiously
>> had this car serviced by Chevrolet and have used only
>> Mobil 1 synthetic
>> oil. About one month ago, I started hearing noise from the
>> left valve
>> conver. I brought the car in for service and the mechanic
>> replaced 3
>> rocker arms and three pushrods. The oil had been freshly
>> changed.
>>
>> Within 100 miles I experienced an engine failure.The same
>> noise started
>> from the valve train and within a few miles the motor
>> stopped. The
>> engine temp at the time it stopped was 198F and the oil
>> temp was 210F
>> but the oil pressure had dropped to nearly 0 psi The
>> failure was due to
>> the fact that the engine oil had turned to a thick sludge
>> and the
>> mechanic says that the engine is ruined. Unfortunately, up
>> to now, the
>> dealership insists that they have no responsibility for
>> fixing (or
>> replacing) the engine. I have taken a sample of the sludge
>> and sent it
>> to a lab for analysis to try to find out why it turned to
>> sludge.
>>
>> I have several questions for the group:
>>
>> 1. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing happening?
>>
>> 2. Since the LT4 engine was a limited edition motor and
>> seems not to be
>> available anymore, if Ido have to make an engine swap, can
>> anyone
>> recommend an aftermarket or crate engine that will fit
>> this car without
>> modifications?
>>
>> Any advice from the group on how to proceed? Please reply
>> off list to
>> me at .
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Steve Reichlyn
>
> ya didn't drive it enough..
>
> my2¢
Sorry for inconvenience. Pulled my post after finding out that he saw
the car being drained rather than extracted.

Whole thing doesn't make much sense but 16K miles in 10 years would give
a proper change interval of about 500 miles.

Would like to find out what the oil analysis shows.
--
…PJ
’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe

"Spud" > wrote in message
. com...
>
>
>> The sludge formed in the 100 miles since the repair (1 month). I
>> drove
>> the car 3 times
>> during that period...two trips of 50 miles each...plenty of time
>> for it
>> to warm up properly).
>
> Jeez,
>
> The man's out 10 grand and we dog pile on him?
>
Not sure why you think that unless you read some more information on
it than was given. I raised two sons, when they were young they told
how things went bad in the same manner. Just enough so they wouldn't
get their ass kicked, this story reminds me of that same tactic. The
answer will be simple when all of the truth is told. Even the
paragraph you left has no true statements in it, or maybe you
understand how you drive it 3 times 100 miles, 2 trips, 50 mile
each??????? It's a lot easier to make sense when you're telling the
truth.

The old troll-Dad

Remember Quaker State from the late 60's early 70's full of paraffin?
I'd pull off valve covers off engines and they would be packed with sludge.

Dad wrote:

--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove –SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi, Dad...
> Pretty low opinion of me, eh? Well, the car was repaired
> one month ago
> and the oil was changed. The old oil was 6 month old and
> came out of
> the bottom looking nearly new.
> The sludge formed in the 100 miles since the repair (1
> month). I drove
> the car 3 times
> during that period...two trips of 50 miles each...plenty
> of time for it
> to warm up properly).
>
> On line answers are perfectly fine....I just didn't want
> to take up too
> much bandwidth hence the comment about answering off line.
> What could
> have happened to make the oil sludge
> up? Certainly neglect except I have the service record to
> prove that it
> wasn't neglected. Fuel in the oil from an improperly
> repaired
> rocker/pushrod? Coolant in the oil from a blown head
> gasket or other
> gasket installed during the repair. I did tell the
> mechanic
> that the low coolant light had come on during the 100
> miles of driving
> since the repair.
>
> My note to the group was an honest effort to try to figure
> out what
> went wrong. I should have know that it would bring the
> trolls out.
>
> SR
> Steve

I didn't see anyone troll you.

--
"Key"

"PJ" > wrote in message
...
> 'Key wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> I own a 96 Collector Edition LT4/6 speed. I bought it
>>> new and have only
>>> 16,000 miles on
>>> it.It is kept in a locked garage when not in use. I have
>>> religiously
>>> had this car serviced by Chevrolet and have used only
>>> Mobil 1 synthetic
>>> oil. About one month ago, I started hearing noise from
>>> the left valve
>>> conver. I brought the car in for service and the
>>> mechanic replaced 3
>>> rocker arms and three pushrods. The oil had been freshly
>>> changed.
>>>
>>> Within 100 miles I experienced an engine failure.The
>>> same noise started
>>> from the valve train and within a few miles the motor
>>> stopped. The
>>> engine temp at the time it stopped was 198F and the oil
>>> temp was 210F
>>> but the oil pressure had dropped to nearly 0 psi The
>>> failure was due to
>>> the fact that the engine oil had turned to a thick
>>> sludge and the
>>> mechanic says that the engine is ruined. Unfortunately,
>>> up to now, the
>>> dealership insists that they have no responsibility for
>>> fixing (or
>>> replacing) the engine. I have taken a sample of the
>>> sludge and sent it
>>> to a lab for analysis to try to find out why it turned
>>> to sludge.
>>>
>>> I have several questions for the group:
>>>
>>> 1. Has anyone ever heard of such a thing happening?
>>>
>>> 2. Since the LT4 engine was a limited edition motor and
>>> seems not to be
>>> available anymore, if Ido have to make an engine swap,
>>> can anyone
>>> recommend an aftermarket or crate engine that will fit
>>> this car without
>>> modifications?
>>>
>>> Any advice from the group on how to proceed? Please
>>> reply off list to
>>> me at .
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve Reichlyn
>>
>> ya didn't drive it enough..
>>
>> my2¢
> Sorry for inconvenience. Pulled my post after finding out
> that he saw the car being drained rather than extracted.
>
> Whole thing doesn't make much sense but 16K miles in 10
> years would give a proper change interval of about 500
> miles.
>
> Would like to find out what the oil analysis shows.
> --
> …PJ
> ’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe

like dad said.
"The answer will be simple when all of the truth is told".

--
"Key"