Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

"WindsorFox<[SS]>" > wrote in message
...

> The three that I have cut open certainly were. I may have had some other
> fibers in it to make it a bit tougher, but it tore like cardboard. In fact
> one of the three I opened the cardboard end cap had partially separated
> from the filter media creating a spot where unfiltered oil could easily
> leak through. THAT was the last Fram filter I ever bought,

I've never actually seen a Fram end cap detached when I opened a filter, but
I have easily detached them. Calling the end caps gasket material is really
a stretch. It makes the material sound better than it is, even if it is
exactly the same material as used in some gasket somewhere. Gaskets are
supported on both sides by solid materials that compress the gasket material
to create a seal. The Fram end caps are glued to paper on one side and
unsupported on the other. This is a totally different application and the
requirements are completely different than for paper used for actual
gaskets. Calling the end cap material, "gasket material" says nothing about
it suitability for use as an end cap in an oil filter.

> changed to NAPA Gold which at that time had been rated #1 by someone, I
> think maybe Consumer Reports.

NAPA Gold = Wix. The P/Ns are even obviously related. Wix filters are good
quality filter at a price comparable to Fram's cheapest filters ( the PH
line). The quality of the materials used is far superior and WIX even
provides actual performance information (for an example see
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlook...asp?Part=51372 ). Fram
just provides advertising copy for their filters that is virtually content
free. Amsoil also sells Wix Filters (as Wix Filters as an additional choice
to the Amsoil private label EO range that I believe comes from Donaldson).

Ed

WindsorFox<[SS]> wrote:
> Mark A wrote:
>> "WindsorFox<[SS]>" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Amsoil meets or surpasses API specs, yes, according to them and one
>>> type is API certified. There is a difference between can not and
>>> refusing to provide some proprietary information.
>>
>> The big lie.
>>
>
> You have proof of Amsoil lying? If you do I am sure that by all means
> a lot of people would be interested in it.
>

During the whole API debate they lied repeatedly. They came up with
amazing fabrications about why they didn't certify their oils, including
lying about the cost of certification, and lying about being worried
about API leaking the formulation of their synthetic. As it turned out,
the real reason was that they knew they couldn't get certified because
of the level of ZDDP.

What's incredible is that they felt they had to resort to that sort of
thing. No one would have thought any worse of them if they had simply
said 'hey, our non-API oil is ideal for motorcycles, snowmobiles, or
anything without a catalytic converter, but if for vehicles with CATs
please use our API certified oil.'

When they started making up stories they lost all credibility.

On Nov 24, 2:02*am, HiC > wrote:
> I see opinions of the "I swear by" type all over the map. Anyone know
> of a good site that shows the truth about which brand/type of oil &
> filter performs the best? Thinking in the passenger car realm.
>
> Thanks


I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I appreciate,
to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters

"HiC" > wrote in message
...


I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I appreciate,
to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters
***********

I dont think you will the find really objective data on oil either. It
exists, but for the
most part the marketing arms of the formulators create the product
information for
the adverts.

Some of these tests can be obtained for a price, and IIRC it is a
substantial price.

"Brent P" > wrote in message news:zPudnb-

.. The manufacturers have too much riding
> through the warranty period to take that kind of risk.
>

I would think that not only the vehicle manufacturer has a lot of exposure,
but also the
filter manufacturer which sells to aftermarket (like Walmart, for instance)
would enter
into a chain of responsibility for damage.

If you want a cheapo filter, they are on the market. You have to pay for
quality, although
not necessarily dealer's prices.

I have used Fram filters in the past, and have never had an incident with
them at all.

I use a NAPA filter on our Avalon, and "whatever" on my old van.

"HiC" > wrote in message
...
>I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I appreciate,
>to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters

If you want the best oil, get a full synthetic. I don't think anyone will
argue that, but some people will say you are wasting your money (but I think
you are wasting your money in most cases if you don't use synthetic). Some
of the other companies are trying to compete against Mobil 1 more heavily,
and you may be able to find some good deals in a full synthetic.

Next best would be a synthetic blend (or you could blend your own regular
and synthetic oil). Even quart synthetic mixed with 4 quarts conventional
will make a difference.

If you have a brand new car, I would wait until the first regularly
scheduled oil change before switching to synthetic to give time for your
piston rings to seat properly. If you have an older car that has never run
on synthetic previously, I would use a higher viscosity synthetic (10W-30 or
10W-40), or one especially made for higher mileage cars (Mobil 1 has such a
synthetic, not sure about other synthetics).

If you are trying to find the best conventional oil, the major brand names
are about the same if they have the same API rating on the side of the
bottle.

Mark A wrote:
> "HiC" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I appreciate,
>> to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters
>
> If you want the best oil, get a full synthetic. I don't think anyone will
> argue that, but some people will say you are wasting your money (but I think
> you are wasting your money in most cases if you don't use synthetic). Some
> of the other companies are trying to compete against Mobil 1 more heavily,
> and you may be able to find some good deals in a full synthetic.

The Mobil 1 sold in the U.S. is no longer a full synthetic. Redline is
still full synthetic, as is Amsoil. Castrol is not.

> Next best would be a synthetic blend (or you could blend your own regular
> and synthetic oil). Even quart synthetic mixed with 4 quarts conventional
> will make a difference.

Actually the next best is an oil like Mobil 1 or Castrol Synthetic.
These can't be sold as "synthetic" oil except in the U.S., where the
court has ruled that oils with non-synthetic base stocks can legally be
called synthetic.

OTOH, unless you're in extremely cold weather, or have high performance
engine that requires synthetic oil, or are trying to extend the oil
change interval far beyond the manufacturer's requirements, all the
experts agree that there is no benefit in using a full synthetic.

"Mark A" > wrote in message
...
> "HiC" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I appreciate,
>>to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters
>
> If you want the best oil, get a full synthetic. I don't think anyone will
> argue that, but some people will say you are wasting your money (but I
> think you are wasting your money in most cases if you don't use
> synthetic).

I wont argue either way, because I have seen no hard data to compare this
generation's synthetics with this generations dino oils.

I continue to use high quality dino oil, because I change at 3000-3500 mile
intervals
and will continue to do so.

I have heard that the high quality dino oils are "about" the same quality as
the synthetics
at this point. Strictly word of mouth, again no credible data either way.

IMO, if it is to your advantage to run very low viscosity oils, synthetics
may be your
best or only choice.

HLS > wrote:
>
>I wont argue either way, because I have seen no hard data to compare this
>generation's synthetics with this generations dino oils.
>
>I continue to use high quality dino oil, because I change at 3000-3500 mile
>intervals
>and will continue to do so.
>
>I have heard that the high quality dino oils are "about" the same quality as
>the synthetics
>at this point. Strictly word of mouth, again no credible data either way.

Depends on the engine. I had a Chrysler Laser that was famous for baking
out residual oil and coking up the turbocharger if not very carefully treated.
Synthetic oil seemed to prevent that problem; I got 480,000 miles on the
original engine and turbocharger with no special cool-down treatment. The
fact that the synthetic had a much higher breakdown temperature was a big
deal.

>IMO, if it is to your advantage to run very low viscosity oils, synthetics
>may be your
>best or only choice.

Or if you need to operate with the same oil over an extremely wide temperature
range, so you need a very wide viscosity range.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"SMS" > wrote in message
...
> Mark A wrote:
>> "HiC" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I see I'm getting a lot of responses about filters which I
>>> appreciate,
>>> to clarify, I was asking about oil & filters
>>
>> If you want the best oil, get a full synthetic. I don't think
>> anyone will argue that, but some people will say you are wasting
>> your money (but I think you are wasting your money in most cases if
>> you don't use synthetic). Some of the other companies are trying to
>> compete against Mobil 1 more heavily, and you may be able to find
>> some good deals in a full synthetic.
>
> The Mobil 1 sold in the U.S. is no longer a full synthetic. Redline
> is still full synthetic, as is Amsoil. Castrol is not.

Care to elaborate on the claim that Mobil 1 scold in the US is no
longer a full synthetic. The follow claim comes from the Mobil 1 Web
Site:

"Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?

"Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's
specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with
SuperSyn uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins
(PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1
with SuperSyn viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic
fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade
to its specific application."

And be careful when you say "Amsoil" is a full synthetic. Some Amsoil
products are, some are not (the XL oils for instance).

Ed