Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

Brent wrote:
> On 2008-11-25, Mark A > wrote:
>> "Brent" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 2008-11-25, SMS > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wait, why don't you show a _single_ independent study that shows
>>>> a benefit to most people. Oh, wait, they're aren't any!
>>>
>>> Most people treat their vehicles like everything else, something
>>> to be consumed and used up and thrown away, so why would syn. oil
>>> have any benefit to them? Trade in value doesn't change based on
>>> the oil they used so long as the engine isn't obviously broken.
>>>
>>> The benefits are for those vehicle owners with special
>>> applications or don't want to wait for turbos to cool down or
>>> care about deposits/sludge or don't want to change oil every 3000
>>> miles
>>> or a number of other reasons that someone else might laugh at.
>>
>> The condition of the drive train on my 1998 Camry V6, that has
>> used synthetic oil since the first oil change, tells me otherwise.
>> I never dreamed of keeping a car this long, and never did before
>> (even other Camrys and Accords).
>
> Keeping a car that long falls under 'other reasons that someone else
> might laugh at' ( I drive a '97 BTW)

Except for the hole in the muffler, my 1989 Made-in-Japan Toyotl
pickup does everything I ask of it, just like the day I drove it home.
Laugh if you will. And compost is free to city residents, at the San
Diego dump/green center. Save a bundle right there.

--
Frank ess

"Frank ess" > wrote in message
...
>
<snipped>

> I don't like miles numbers. I don't use that many miles. I do use time. I
> choose three or six or nine months as oil-change intervals. I forget
> which. Whatever it is, it works out a lot less than every 3000 or 5000 or
> 10000.
>
> One time when I went to get my '06 V6 oil change, the dealer put in the
> GT-specified 5-20. I objected. The service dude said they use bulk 5-20 on
> /all/ their oil changes, even "full synthetic". I went back the next day
> and asked them to put in the V6-specified 5-30. They convened a committee
> including some guys wearing ties, and were on the phone to Dee Troit
> before they read the owner's manual and made the change (or so they
> said)free gratis.
>
> A few months later I went in for my '09 V8 "free first oil change" at
> another dealer, asked for full-synthetic, and when I got it back it
> purportedly had that and a dose of some kind of X-men Graphite
> warranty-extending additive in it. The owner's guide says in no uncertain
> terms,~"Don't put additives in our engines!"
>
> Sometimes I wonder how people get into positions of trust without basic
> reading skills.
>
> --
> Frank ess

Probably the same way as people without basic writing skills ;-)
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

SMS wrote:
> Mark A wrote:
>
>> The condition of the drive train on my 1998 Camry V6, that has used
>> synthetic oil since the first oil change, tells me otherwise. I never
>> dreamed of keeping a car this long, and never did before (even other
>> Camrys and Accords).
>
> LOL, and our 12 year old Camry, which has had 5K dino oil changes since
> new, also has a drive train (well the engine part of the drive train)
> that is in perfect condition.
>
> What you have to understand is that for a Toyota, going 10-20 years
> without engine problems, either on dino oil or synthetic oil, is nothing
> out of the ordinary. Similarly, synthetic oil wouldn't help many GM or
> Ford engines go that long.
>
> It may give you peace of mind to use synthetic oil, but there's no
> difference in engine longevity from it.
>

Hell it's nothing for a GM or Ford to go 20 years or more without engine
trouble. I can even show you ones that are FAR over that with no
problems. How about a fire engine built on a 62 Ford chassis. Never had
anything other than routine maintainance on it. Or maybe the 75 Chevy
van we have. It also has never been touched.

I very much doubt that ANY of your vehicles get abused like these rigs
do either.

--
Steve W.

Brent wrote:
> On 2008-11-25, Vic Smith > wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm not sure using Mobil 1 is worth the price premium.
>> Don't use it myself. One son does though.
>> If I lived in a colder place than Chicago, I might consider it.
>> Could be worth it just for those sub-zero starts.
>> But I'm speculating.
>
> I'm in chicago and the start up difference was quite remarkable
> when I last switched a car from dino to syn. It's back on dino
> since for some reason it consumed the mobil one at a rate I don't
> start it in sub zero cold any more. The car I do have to start in
> sub-zero cold has been on mobil 1 since it's first oil change.

Slip of the finger, no doubt; perhaps this will help:
(some call it the angry flower - looks more like a cabbage, to me)
http://www.fototime.com/F591E70109EA6BE/orig.gif


--
Frank ess

Frank ess wrote:

> One time when I went to get my '06 V6 oil change, the dealer put in the
> GT-specified 5-20. I objected. The service dude said they use bulk 5-20
> on /all/ their oil changes, even "full synthetic". I went back the next
> day and asked them to put in the V6-specified 5-30. They convened a
> committee including some guys wearing ties, and were on the phone to Dee
> Troit before they read the owner's manual and made the change (or so
> they said)free gratis.

I've had the Toyota dealer do a second oil change when they used the
bulk oil instead of what was specified. Again, the excuse was that they
have one kind of bulk oil, and that's what they use on everything,
regardless of what the manufacturer specifies (in this case it was bulk
10W30). When they re-did the oil, they went into the parts store and
took six quarts of 5W30. But they never argued about it or convened a
committee, they just did it. The last thing they want to do is to create
a scene where other customer suddenly start questioning them on
something like this.

I've never went back to that service department again, I just can't
trust them. Nor would I ever buy a vehicle there again (it's not where I
bought the vehicle in question, but I did buy a vehicle there in 1985!).

> A few months later I went in for my '09 V8 "free first oil change" at
> another dealer, asked for full-synthetic, and when I got it back it
> purportedly had that and a dose of some kind of X-men Graphite
> warranty-extending additive in it. The owner's guide says in no
> uncertain terms,~"Don't put additives in our engines!"

Because next time, when they hope you return for a non-free oil change,
they were planning on selling you that additive.

> Sometimes I wonder how people get into positions of trust without basic
> reading skills.

The service departments come up with all sorts of profit-enhancing crap
that at best is unnecessary, and at worst will ultimately damage your
vehicle.

"SMS" > wrote in message
...
<snipped>
> The service departments come up with all sorts of profit-enhancing crap
> that at best is unnecessary, and at worst will ultimately damage your
> vehicle.

Don't forget fees for shop supplies and hazardous material disposal. I
wonder how long a restaurant would stay in business if it added separate
line items for cooking oil, seasoning, dishwashing soap, and the fees to
haul away the used cooking oil.


--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

On 2008-11-25, HLS > wrote:
>
> "Brent" > wrote in message news:gghsd0
>> Sometimes I wish I lived in a mild climate instead of being stuck in
>> bumper to bumper traffic on 90-100deg F days or starting the car in the
>> sub zero cold. I remember some of the sounds until the dino oil started
>> flowing and I remember using a paint stripper heat gun to blow hot air
>> into an engine through the oil filler and dipstick tube to get the oil
>> warmed enough so the car would start. I'll it's worth the few extra
>> bucks not to have to deal with those things anymore even if the engine
>> doesn't last a revolution longer than it would have otherwise.
>
> I used dino oil in my Buick when I lived in Norway. There was never any
> sort of problem with the oil, and we certainly had sub zero temperatures.

Oil getting thicker at cold temperatures isn't a problem, it's a natural
property. Some oils however don't suffer as badly from it as others.

On 2008-11-25, Frank ess > wrote:
>
>
> Brent wrote:
>> On 2008-11-25, Vic Smith > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure using Mobil 1 is worth the price premium.
>>> Don't use it myself. One son does though.
>>> If I lived in a colder place than Chicago, I might consider it.
>>> Could be worth it just for those sub-zero starts.
>>> But I'm speculating.
>>
>> I'm in chicago and the start up difference was quite remarkable
>> when I last switched a car from dino to syn. It's back on dino
>> since for some reason it consumed the mobil one at a rate I don't
>> start it in sub zero cold any more. The car I do have to start in
>> sub-zero cold has been on mobil 1 since it's first oil change.
>
> Slip of the finger, no doubt; perhaps this will help:
> (some call it the angry flower - looks more like a cabbage, to me)
> http://www.fototime.com/F591E70109EA6BE/orig.gif

If a typo is such a big fing deal to you I suggest you give up usenet.

On 2008-11-25, Frank ess > wrote:
>
>
> Brent wrote:
>> On 2008-11-25, Mark A > wrote:
>>> "Brent" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 2008-11-25, SMS > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wait, why don't you show a _single_ independent study that shows
>>>>> a benefit to most people. Oh, wait, they're aren't any!
>>>>
>>>> Most people treat their vehicles like everything else, something
>>>> to be consumed and used up and thrown away, so why would syn. oil
>>>> have any benefit to them? Trade in value doesn't change based on
>>>> the oil they used so long as the engine isn't obviously broken.
>>>>
>>>> The benefits are for those vehicle owners with special
>>>> applications or don't want to wait for turbos to cool down or
>>>> care about deposits/sludge or don't want to change oil every 3000
>>>> miles
>>>> or a number of other reasons that someone else might laugh at.
>>>
>>> The condition of the drive train on my 1998 Camry V6, that has
>>> used synthetic oil since the first oil change, tells me otherwise.
>>> I never dreamed of keeping a car this long, and never did before
>>> (even other Camrys and Accords).
>>
>> Keeping a car that long falls under 'other reasons that someone else
>> might laugh at' ( I drive a '97 BTW)
>
> Except for the hole in the muffler, my 1989 Made-in-Japan Toyotl
> pickup does everything I ask of it, just like the day I drove it home.
> Laugh if you will. And compost is free to city residents, at the San
> Diego dump/green center. Save a bundle right there.

The rust ate the toyota pickups of that vintage around here. They all
seem to get the same massive rust in the sides of the cargo bed. The
last one I saw that wasn't heavily rusted was about 5 years ago. The cab
was blue and the bed was red.

In rec.autos.tech Brent > wrote:

> > The condition of the drive train on my 1998 Camry V6, that has used
> > synthetic oil since the first oil change, tells me otherwise. I never
> > dreamed of keeping a car this long, and never did before (even other Camrys
> > and Accords).

> Keeping a car that long falls under 'other reasons that someone else
> might laugh at' ( I drive a '97 BTW)

Man, I did not know a 98 or 97 car is already considered "that long".
I drive a 99 Maxima, and started using mobile1 synthetic 10w30
around 60k 5 years ago. It's been running fine since, and I do think
it makes some difference on long trips that are 2+ hours. I feel with
the old oil the engine seems slightly lacking in power after a few
hours. With synthetic I don't feel it.

But it could also just be my imagination. Imagine my shock when I
finally read the owner's manual and realized I should've been using
5W30, not 10W30 as I've been doing.

I WILL visit the dealer to see how much their filters are. I've been
using the PureOne filter from PepBoys...

Raymond