MFFY and bicyclist

On 2011-04-17, Harry K > wrote:
> On Apr 17, 3:49*am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."

> Plain and simple is that you are an idiot. I suspect more of a troll
> as this thread does not resemble your past posts IIRC.

Many speed kills, law is the law, and irritatingly slow drivers hate
bicyclists, sometimes with a homicidal passion. Because of that, I
expected you to chime in on his side.

"Harry K" > wrote in message
...

[snip...]

So change the bicycle in the scenario to a car moving just under the
speed limit. Does he need to pull over to let you pass?

* No he does not, not as long as there is a passing lane or if it's only one
lane in each direction, until he is being followed by four other vehicles
behind me. Slower traffic is expected to keep right.The bicycle, however, is
expected to ride as far right as practicible and within marked bike lanes
whenever possible. In the motor vehicle right tire track is generally not as
far right as practicible.

"Brent" > wrote in message
...
> On 2011-04-17, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
>> "Brent" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 2011-04-16, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
>>>> "Alexander Rogge" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Brent should relate to this incident. I saw the driver of a small
>>>>> Toyota
>>>>> approach a bicycist in the right lane and begin tailgating the
>>>>> bicyclist.
>>>>> The bicyclist was riding in the right tyre track, and was moving at
>>>>> about
>>>>> the posted speed limit. Instead of passing in the open left-lane, the
>>>>> Toyota driver continued tailgating and honking for another 50 m. At
>>>>> the
>>>>> next intersection, the MFFY driver accelerated into the right-turn
>>>>> lane
>>>>> and made a wide right-turn very slowly, forcing the bicyclist to evade
>>>>> the
>>>>> MFFY. No, no, no! Wrong!
>>>
>>> Sounds like par for the course.
>>>
>>>> Clearly, the bicyclist was at fault for causing the inital honking and
>>>> the
>>>> subsequent blocking retaliation, but the bicyclist also never got hit,
>>>> right?
>>>
>>> Really now? How many times have you driven off the road because someone
>>> didn't like you traveling at the speed limit in the right lane?
>
>> Bicyclists are capable of doing that much easier than cars. Just begin
>> squeezing the brake calipers while merging towards off the pavement to
>> the
>> dirt or the sidewalk. ( For those riding a one-speed coaster brake
>> equipped
>> bike, just pedal backwards and allow the brake shoe to begin slowing the
>> bike.) Then stop. Dismount if one wants to continue walking the bike.
>
> It's clear you've never done any bicycling in traffic. You are wholely
> ignorant. You want bicyclists to run into a curb or risk a fall because
> you are a ****ty driver. It is as simple as that. Meanwhile you are a
> hypocrite because you've decided that it is 'too hard' for you to drive
> your car over the curb or on to the shoulder or on the gravel or into
> the ditch when you have far less risk of personal injury doing so in
> your car. Sure, it might damage your car, but it also can damage a
> bicycle so that's a draw. Just brake and go off the road.
>
You know what bicyclists do along the four lanes in each direction/45 mph
speed limit/main thoroughfare road with no bike lanes? They are smart, they
ride on the sidewalk. They aren't taking the lane and impeding 45mph through
motor vehicle traffic. If they encounter a pedestrian, they pass on the
grass without losing control of their bike and then get right back on the
sidewalk.

>>>> Aside from a bit of road rage from the motor vehicle driver, this
>>>> isn't anything noteworthy.
>
>>> In that it is experienced way too often I suppose.
>
>> Which means you are impeding traffic whenever you take the lane. Near the
>> posted speed limit is not, repeat NOT the same at AT the posted speed
>> limit.
>
> It's the right half the of the right lane. It is 100% legal to be there
> at any speed. The speed limit is an upper bound, not a recommended
> speed. You want to pass, use the left lane.
>
But the rule is for bicyclists to ride as far to the right as practicible.
If the bicyclist can move further right than the right tire track, they must
do so.

>>>> At the point the bicyclist was being honked at, the bicyclist had a
>>>> responsibility to move further to the right, better still would have
>>>> been
>>>> to
>>>> pull off the road and dismount until such time as they are no longer
>>>> blocking through motor vehicle traffic. Same logic as slower traffic
>>>> using
>>>> turnouts or pulling over when they are blocking through traffic has to
>>>> apply
>>>> to the bicyclists.
>
>>> It's pretty clear you have no experience as a bicyclist in traffic.
>>> Moving over for some driver honking at you is the LAST thing you want to
>>> do unless you want to end up hurt/dead. That driver behind is not
>>> capable of passing/driving properly. He will brush pass. I learned the
>>> hard way not to move over for these people. I've got a small scar from
>>> the experience.
>
You know what? Years ago, when I had a bike, if I had to ride I used the
sidewalks or the bike lanes where marked. I didn't ever get in the way of
thru traffic by taking the lane.

>> No he won't.
>
> Bull****.
>
>> If he was going to brush pass he would have done it already,
>> nearly running you off the road--
>
> He's honking because he is incapable of driving well. 100%, yes, every
> single driver who has sat behind me honking has brush passed me. EVERY
> SINGLE ONE. When I didn't know any better I moved over for them. They
> brush passed me and I had no where to go. I learned the hard way not to
> move over. When they finally decide to execute their brush pass I have
> room to use.
>
Okay, then, you have this problem quite frequently.

>> which by the way, I don't approve of
>> running bicyclists off the road nor hitting them. Just move out of the
>> right
>> tire track, how hard is that to do? Then he passes with no further
>> incident.
>
> Again, you have no experience. You want that bicyclist off the road. You
> just stated as much way above. You need to learn how to drive properly.
>
>> Critical mass style bicycling? Well, they do deserve all the road rage
>> drivers can give them as long as they aren't actually collided with or
>> run
>> off the road. Honking, yelling, swearing at them... I'm not going to call
>> foul on those motor vehicle drivers.
>
> I'm sorry you are unskilled, impaitent, road raging driver.
>
So you excuse the double-file bicyclists with one in the bike lane and one
in the thru traffic lane, riding side by side instead of single file? You
only fault the motor vehicle driver?

>>>> This is why, I continue to assert, bicyclists need to have designated
>>>> lanes
>>>> walled off by a curb or k-rail. This will work well in keeping them out
>>>> of
>>>> the main traffic lanes, but then also having suitable gaps at
>>>> intersections
>>>> where they may walk the bike and cross, like a pedestrian, before
>>>> resuming
>>>> riding in another walled off bike only lane.
>
>>> This is unworkable for all the reasons I have posted before.
>
>> It's very workable, you just don't like it. You right along in a straight
>> line until you reach an intersection. If you wish to continue straight
>> then
>> you stop, walk the bike across the intersection like a pedestrian, then
>> continue riding in the same lane at the other side of the intersection.
>> If
>> you want to turn, you cross in the gap--the same gap that would allow
>> pedestrians to cross--by walking the bike, and then continue on riding
>> while
>> riding in the nicely walled off lane from motor vehicle traffic.
>
> It is as workable as you getting out and pushing your car across every
> intersection. You, like all wannabe central planners simply lack the
> real and practical experience. I am not rehashing this for you.
>
> The fact that you think this is a good idea tells me that you've never
> done any significant road bicycling, especially in an urban/suburban
> environment.
>
No, I haven't. But should I have to, I'll be riding as far right and using
the bike lanes and not taking the lane.

>>>> Enough with this SHARE THE ROAD crap already. Clearly, it's the
>>>> bicyclists
>>>> and not the motor vehicles who continue to violate the right-of-way.
>>>> Wall
>>>> off the bicyclists in their designated lanes with curbs and k-rails,
>>>> police
>>>> can confiscate and impound the bikes of those who don't stay in the
>>>> designated lanes on the spot (then the bicyclists will learn their
>>>> lesson
>>>> to
>>>> stay in the designated lanes for sure when they have to walk or use a
>>>> bus
>>>> or
>>>> taxi).
>
>>> If you can't deal with bicyclists on the road you need to shread your DL
>>> immediately.
>>
>> The problem is that of the bicyclists and it's time the vehicle codes
>> have
>> more draconian penalties for vehicle code violations for bicyclists.
>
> Last I heard they were the same as for drivers and an automobile is far
> more deadly.
>
Basic physics, more mass and any resultant collision acceleration forces
means a overall force.

>> Bicyclists should never be in the tire track of the motor vehicle
>> path--let
>> alone centered in the entire lane--unless they are at and never below the
>> posted speed limit.
>
> So you will make up your own ideas. Sorry, the vehicle code says
> otherwise.
>
>> Otherwise, please remain no more than six inches from
>> the curb or shoulder of the road with no bike lane and always remain in
>> the
>> bike lanes where they exist--that is as far to the right as practicible
>> absent of parked vehicles.
>
> It's not. If you think it is, come visit me this summer and we'll go for
> a ride. I want to see you do 25mph with your tires six inches from a
> high-square curb. (hint: this gives your right pedal about half inch
> clearance from the concrete, if that.) I'll bring my cell phone to call
> 911 when you face plant from running your pedal into the curb on the
> down stroke or being brush-passed squeezed into the curb. I'll lead,
> because if I were behind you my proper riding would shield you.
>
Most of the curbs are quite low in my area.

>> Excuses of debis have little to no merit. If you
>> are riding in the door zone, please do hand signal every time you weave
>> in
>> and out from groups of parked cars. Thank you for not impeding motor
>> vehicle
>> traffic. Thank you for not blaming motor vehicle traffic for bicyclists
>> not
>> being able to ride safely enough and coexist.
>
> You have no clue how to ride. Put up or shut up. I want to see you do
> this in person in the city of chicago and get anywhere in a timely
> manner. I want to see you follow your own advice in heavy traffic'd
> suburban areas. If you're lucky you'll live.
>
However, I have no disire to visit Chicago anytime soon.

"Brent" > wrote in message
...
> On 2011-04-17, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
>> Okay then no more than 8 inches away from the curb.
>
> Let's go for a ride daniel.
>
Okay, I'll play along.

> For the first road we'll ride, I pick Irving park road between I90/94
> and the lake. From there I can choose some lovely suburban arterials for
> you. Then we'll hit some high traffic two lane roads. For this, I pick
> deerfield road east of 21 through riverwoods IL in the afternoon rush
> hour. We'll be going westbound. This is where I encounted the "drive
> car" guy ages ago. This guy was like you. He was wanted to force me off
> the road so he could nestle the front bumper of his car up the bumper of
> the SUV in front of me.... in a traffic jam.
>
Any bike lanes on those roads? Any speed limits over 30mph? If no bike lanes
and speed limits higher than 30mph, IMHO there is no practical place for
riding on those roads and those roads should be signed as BICYCLES
PROHIBITED. If there are bike lanes there is no practical reason not to
remain in the bike lane.

> You will soon either find bicycling totally impractical by your rules or
> be injured/killed.
>
Okay, whatever you say.

On Apr 17, 3:30*pm, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> wrote:
> "Arif Khokar" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 4/16/2011 10:46 PM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> >> "Arif Khokar" > wrote in message
> m...
> >>> On 4/16/2011 7:10 PM, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
> >>>> "Alexander Rogge" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>> Brent should relate to this incident. I saw the driver of a small
> >>>>> Toyota approach a bicycist in the right lane and begin tailgating the
> >>>>> bicyclist. The bicyclist was riding in the right tyre track, and was
> >>>>> moving at about the posted speed limit.
> >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> >>>> Clearly, the bicyclist was at fault for causing the inital honking and
> >>>> the subsequent blocking retaliation, but the bicyclist also never got
> >>>> hit, right? Aside from a bit of road rage from the motor vehicle
> >>>> driver,
> >>>> this isn't anything noteworthy.
>
> >>>> At the point the bicyclist was being honked at, the bicyclist had a
> >>>> responsibility to move further to the right, better still would have
> >>>> been to pull off the road and dismount until such time as they are no
> >>>> longer blocking through motor vehicle traffic.
>
> >>> So the next time you're driving in the left lane not passing other
> >>> traffic while driving to the posted limit, I'll start honking at you
> >>> and expect that you pull over to the right shoulder and get out of
> >>> your car. At least this way you're no longer blocking motor vehicle
> >>> traffic, you stupid troll.
>
> >> You can certainly start honking at me to get out of the left lane. I can
> >> move to the right when it's safe.
>
> > I already know it's safe for you to move to the right. *Otherwise I
> > wouldn't be honking at you.
>
> >> Not sure why you'd think I'm trolling--near the posted speed
> >> limit is not AT the posted speed limit
>
> > I read it that the cyclist was traveling between 38 to 42 km/h in a 40
> > km/h zone. *He wouldn't be impeding traffic. *Drivers, like you, typically
> > lack the ability to know when and how to safely pass. *In one instance, I
> > had a car brush-pass me while I was cycling while I was exceeding the
> > posted limit by 3 or 4 mph (18 to 19 mph in a 15 mph zone).
>
> >> Again, the scenario describes no collision whatsoever and in addition, a
> >> re-read of the original posted scenario suggests that the bicyclist was
> >> not willing to slow down when they saw the motor vehicle start to turn
> >> due to "having to evade" the turning vehicle.
>
> > That's because according to California law, you're supposed to make a
> > right turn from the right most lane (including the bicycle lane). *Only an
> > idiot, like you, would think it's perfectly legal to make a right turn and
> > cut off through traffic. *I bet you feel perfectly justified taking right
> > turns from the middle and left lanes all the time, you stupid troll.
>
> You're looking for a flamewar but you're not going to get one. If I'm a
> "troll" because I'm not a sheep believing bicyclists are infallible, too
> bad.
>
> Stay in the bike lanes whereever they are marked, and these situtations
> complaining of being honked at, brush passed, cut off at turns by other
> drivers simple would not be happening. In the case where there is no bike
> lane, thank you for being prepared to turn out and pull over whenever you
> are impeding through motor vehicle traffic.

In lieu of any law requiring slower motorists to do the same, and
given statements made by you in other posts in this thread, I'm
confused as to why you do not see the logical inconsistency of your
position.

The law treats cyclists riding on a public road similarly to other
vehicular traffic; if you truly believe your position is correct, your
first step is to change the law...

Now I am not defending rude, inconsiderate cyclists - and there are
plenty of them - but with the exception of limited access highways and
other places (if any) where signs are posted explicitly prohibiting
bicycles, they have as much right to the road as any other type of
vehicular traffic. So on a road where there are no clean, paved
shoulders, turnouts, or passing lane/legal passing zone - you really
don't have any legal basis for your impatience, so long as the cyclist
is riding within the letter of the law.

nate

On Apr 18, 1:24*am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> wrote:
> "Brent" > wrote in message
>
> ...> On 2011-04-17, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
> >> Okay then no more than 8 inches away from the curb.
>
> > Let's go for a ride daniel.
>
> Okay, I'll play along.
>
> > For the first road we'll ride, I pick Irving park road between I90/94
> > and the lake. From there I can choose some lovely suburban arterials for
> > you. Then we'll hit some high traffic two lane roads. For this, I pick
> > deerfield road east of 21 through riverwoods IL in the afternoon rush
> > hour. We'll be going westbound. This is where I encounted the "drive
> > car" guy ages ago. This guy was like you. He was wanted to force me off
> > the road so he could nestle the front bumper of his car up the bumper of
> > the SUV in front of me.... in a traffic jam.
>
> Any bike lanes on those roads? Any speed limits over 30mph? If no bike lanes
> and speed limits higher than 30mph, IMHO there is no practical place for
> riding on those roads and those roads should be signed as BICYCLES
> PROHIBITED. If there are bike lanes there is no practical reason not to
> remain in the bike lane.
>
> > You will soon either find bicycling totally impractical by your rules or
> > be injured/killed.
>
> Okay, whatever you say.

If you limit bicycles to only roads with bike lanes and/or speed
limits 30 MPH or less, you are essentially prohibiting vehicular
cycling in the vast majority of the US. Aside from the fact that I'm
quite opposed to such an act, I'd question its constitutionality.

nate

On Apr 18, 1:11*am, "Daniel W. Rouse Jr."
> wrote:
> "Harry K" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> [snip...]
>
> So change the bicycle in the scenario to a car moving just under the
> speed limit. *Does he need to pull over to let you pass?
>
> * No he does not, not as long as there is a passing lane or if it's only one
> lane in each direction, until he is being followed by four other vehicles
> behind me. Slower traffic is expected to keep right.The bicycle, however, is
> expected to ride as far right as practicible and within marked bike lanes
> whenever possible. In the motor vehicle right tire track is generally not as
> far right as practicible.

Maybe where you live. Where I grew up, and where I live now, the
right edge of the right tire track is, in fact, as far right as
practicable on most roads.

nate

On 2011-04-18, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
> "Harry K" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> [snip...]
>
> So change the bicycle in the scenario to a car moving just under the
> speed limit. Does he need to pull over to let you pass?
>
> * No he does not, not as long as there is a passing lane or if it's only one
> lane in each direction, until he is being followed by four other vehicles
> behind me. Slower traffic is expected to keep right.The bicycle, however, is
> expected to ride as far right as practicible and within marked bike lanes
> whenever possible. In the motor vehicle right tire track is generally not as
> far right as practicible.

So you are a hypocrite, thanks for making that clear. BTW: the bicyclist
decides what is practicable, not you.

On 2011-04-18, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
> "Brent" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2011-04-17, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
>>> "Brent" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On 2011-04-16, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
>>>>> "Alexander Rogge" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Brent should relate to this incident. I saw the driver of a small
>>>>>> Toyota
>>>>>> approach a bicycist in the right lane and begin tailgating the
>>>>>> bicyclist.
>>>>>> The bicyclist was riding in the right tyre track, and was moving at
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> the posted speed limit. Instead of passing in the open left-lane, the
>>>>>> Toyota driver continued tailgating and honking for another 50 m. At
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> next intersection, the MFFY driver accelerated into the right-turn
>>>>>> lane
>>>>>> and made a wide right-turn very slowly, forcing the bicyclist to evade
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> MFFY. No, no, no! Wrong!
>>>>
>>>> Sounds like par for the course.
>>>>
>>>>> Clearly, the bicyclist was at fault for causing the inital honking and
>>>>> the
>>>>> subsequent blocking retaliation, but the bicyclist also never got hit,
>>>>> right?
>>>>
>>>> Really now? How many times have you driven off the road because someone
>>>> didn't like you traveling at the speed limit in the right lane?
>>
>>> Bicyclists are capable of doing that much easier than cars. Just begin
>>> squeezing the brake calipers while merging towards off the pavement to
>>> the
>>> dirt or the sidewalk. ( For those riding a one-speed coaster brake
>>> equipped
>>> bike, just pedal backwards and allow the brake shoe to begin slowing the
>>> bike.) Then stop. Dismount if one wants to continue walking the bike.
>>
>> It's clear you've never done any bicycling in traffic. You are wholely
>> ignorant. You want bicyclists to run into a curb or risk a fall because
>> you are a ****ty driver. It is as simple as that. Meanwhile you are a
>> hypocrite because you've decided that it is 'too hard' for you to drive
>> your car over the curb or on to the shoulder or on the gravel or into
>> the ditch when you have far less risk of personal injury doing so in
>> your car. Sure, it might damage your car, but it also can damage a
>> bicycle so that's a draw. Just brake and go off the road.
>>
> You know what bicyclists do along the four lanes in each direction/45 mph
> speed limit/main thoroughfare road with no bike lanes? They are smart, they
> ride on the sidewalk. They aren't taking the lane and impeding 45mph through
> motor vehicle traffic. If they encounter a pedestrian, they pass on the
> grass without losing control of their bike and then get right back on the
> sidewalk.

Sidewalk riding is far more dangerous. It is very dangerous done at
speeds over over about 8mph. But since you have no practical experience
what so ever bicycling you wouldn't know that. If you want to be killed,
ride along such a road at 20mph on the side walk. You'll eventually get
hit by or crash into a motor vehicle that turns off the main road or
pulls out of a side street or driveway.

>>>>> Aside from a bit of road rage from the motor vehicle driver, this
>>>>> isn't anything noteworthy.
>>
>>>> In that it is experienced way too often I suppose.
>>
>>> Which means you are impeding traffic whenever you take the lane. Near the
>>> posted speed limit is not, repeat NOT the same at AT the posted speed
>>> limit.
>>
>> It's the right half the of the right lane. It is 100% legal to be there
>> at any speed. The speed limit is an upper bound, not a recommended
>> speed. You want to pass, use the left lane.

> But the rule is for bicyclists to ride as far to the right as practicible.
> If the bicyclist can move further right than the right tire track, they must
> do so.

Practicible != possible. This has been gone over countless times.

>>>>> At the point the bicyclist was being honked at, the bicyclist had a
>>>>> responsibility to move further to the right, better still would have
>>>>> been
>>>>> to
>>>>> pull off the road and dismount until such time as they are no longer
>>>>> blocking through motor vehicle traffic. Same logic as slower traffic
>>>>> using
>>>>> turnouts or pulling over when they are blocking through traffic has to
>>>>> apply
>>>>> to the bicyclists.
>>
>>>> It's pretty clear you have no experience as a bicyclist in traffic.
>>>> Moving over for some driver honking at you is the LAST thing you want to
>>>> do unless you want to end up hurt/dead. That driver behind is not
>>>> capable of passing/driving properly. He will brush pass. I learned the
>>>> hard way not to move over for these people. I've got a small scar from
>>>> the experience.
>>
> You know what? Years ago, when I had a bike, if I had to ride I used the
> sidewalks or the bike lanes where marked. I didn't ever get in the way of
> thru traffic by taking the lane.
>
>>> No he won't.
>>
>> Bull****.
>>
>>> If he was going to brush pass he would have done it already,
>>> nearly running you off the road--

>> He's honking because he is incapable of driving well. 100%, yes, every
>> single driver who has sat behind me honking has brush passed me. EVERY
>> SINGLE ONE. When I didn't know any better I moved over for them. They
>> brush passed me and I had no where to go. I learned the hard way not to
>> move over. When they finally decide to execute their brush pass I have
>> room to use.

> Okay, then, you have this problem quite frequently.

I stated nothing about frequency. The honking idiot is quite rare as
most people know how to drive at least well enough to pass a bicyclist
without sitting back there honking demanding the bicyclist go into the
ditch for them. I encounter idiots on this level less than once a year.
Every single one of them has brush passed me.

>>> which by the way, I don't approve of
>>> running bicyclists off the road nor hitting them. Just move out of the
>>> right
>>> tire track, how hard is that to do? Then he passes with no further
>>> incident.

>> Again, you have no experience. You want that bicyclist off the road. You
>> just stated as much way above. You need to learn how to drive properly.

>>> Critical mass style bicycling? Well, they do deserve all the road rage
>>> drivers can give them as long as they aren't actually collided with or
>>> run
>>> off the road. Honking, yelling, swearing at them... I'm not going to call
>>> foul on those motor vehicle drivers.

>> I'm sorry you are unskilled, impaitent, road raging driver.
>
> So you excuse the double-file bicyclists with one in the bike lane and one
> in the thru traffic lane, riding side by side instead of single file? You
> only fault the motor vehicle driver?

And you excuse space aliens abducting people from their bedrooms? I
don't even know your assignment above even follows. There's no
discussion of double file riding here, it's a single rider. But sure
make them side by side, unlike you I know how to drive and the second
rider doesn't matter because I pass with more than enough room as it is.

>>>>> This is why, I continue to assert, bicyclists need to have designated
>>>>> lanes
>>>>> walled off by a curb or k-rail. This will work well in keeping them out
>>>>> of
>>>>> the main traffic lanes, but then also having suitable gaps at
>>>>> intersections
>>>>> where they may walk the bike and cross, like a pedestrian, before
>>>>> resuming
>>>>> riding in another walled off bike only lane.
>>
>>>> This is unworkable for all the reasons I have posted before.
>>
>>> It's very workable, you just don't like it. You right along in a straight
>>> line until you reach an intersection. If you wish to continue straight
>>> then
>>> you stop, walk the bike across the intersection like a pedestrian, then
>>> continue riding in the same lane at the other side of the intersection.
>>> If
>>> you want to turn, you cross in the gap--the same gap that would allow
>>> pedestrians to cross--by walking the bike, and then continue on riding
>>> while
>>> riding in the nicely walled off lane from motor vehicle traffic.

>> It is as workable as you getting out and pushing your car across every
>> intersection. You, like all wannabe central planners simply lack the
>> real and practical experience. I am not rehashing this for you.
>>
>> The fact that you think this is a good idea tells me that you've never
>> done any significant road bicycling, especially in an urban/suburban
>> environment.
>
> No, I haven't. But should I have to, I'll be riding as far right and using
> the bike lanes and not taking the lane.

You have no clue. Join me for a ride. I pick the roads. You ride your
way. If you live, we'll talk.

>>>>> Enough with this SHARE THE ROAD crap already. Clearly, it's the
>>>>> bicyclists
>>>>> and not the motor vehicles who continue to violate the right-of-way.
>>>>> Wall
>>>>> off the bicyclists in their designated lanes with curbs and k-rails,
>>>>> police
>>>>> can confiscate and impound the bikes of those who don't stay in the
>>>>> designated lanes on the spot (then the bicyclists will learn their
>>>>> lesson
>>>>> to
>>>>> stay in the designated lanes for sure when they have to walk or use a
>>>>> bus
>>>>> or
>>>>> taxi).
>>
>>>> If you can't deal with bicyclists on the road you need to shread your DL
>>>> immediately.
>>>
>>> The problem is that of the bicyclists and it's time the vehicle codes
>>> have
>>> more draconian penalties for vehicle code violations for bicyclists.
>>
>> Last I heard they were the same as for drivers and an automobile is far
>> more deadly.

> Basic physics, more mass and any resultant collision acceleration forces
> means a overall force.

And yet you think its bicycle riders who should have harsher penalities.

>>> Bicyclists should never be in the tire track of the motor vehicle
>>> path--let
>>> alone centered in the entire lane--unless they are at and never below the
>>> posted speed limit.
>>
>> So you will make up your own ideas. Sorry, the vehicle code says
>> otherwise.
>>
>>> Otherwise, please remain no more than six inches from
>>> the curb or shoulder of the road with no bike lane and always remain in
>>> the
>>> bike lanes where they exist--that is as far to the right as practicible
>>> absent of parked vehicles.
>>
>> It's not. If you think it is, come visit me this summer and we'll go for
>> a ride. I want to see you do 25mph with your tires six inches from a
>> high-square curb. (hint: this gives your right pedal about half inch
>> clearance from the concrete, if that.) I'll bring my cell phone to call
>> 911 when you face plant from running your pedal into the curb on the
>> down stroke or being brush-passed squeezed into the curb. I'll lead,
>> because if I were behind you my proper riding would shield you.

> Most of the curbs are quite low in my area.

Low curb is still good enough to hurt you.

>>> Excuses of debis have little to no merit. If you
>>> are riding in the door zone, please do hand signal every time you weave
>>> in
>>> and out from groups of parked cars. Thank you for not impeding motor
>>> vehicle
>>> traffic. Thank you for not blaming motor vehicle traffic for bicyclists
>>> not
>>> being able to ride safely enough and coexist.

>> You have no clue how to ride. Put up or shut up. I want to see you do
>> this in person in the city of chicago and get anywhere in a timely
>> manner. I want to see you follow your own advice in heavy traffic'd
>> suburban areas. If you're lucky you'll live.
>>
> However, I have no disire to visit Chicago anytime soon.

Of course. you like all the other selfish drivers just want everyone
slower than you off the road and everyone faster stuck behind you at
your pace.

On 2011-04-18, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
> "Brent" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2011-04-17, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. > wrote:
>>> Okay then no more than 8 inches away from the curb.
>>
>> Let's go for a ride daniel.
>>
> Okay, I'll play along.
>
>> For the first road we'll ride, I pick Irving park road between I90/94
>> and the lake. From there I can choose some lovely suburban arterials for
>> you. Then we'll hit some high traffic two lane roads. For this, I pick
>> deerfield road east of 21 through riverwoods IL in the afternoon rush
>> hour. We'll be going westbound. This is where I encounted the "drive
>> car" guy ages ago. This guy was like you. He was wanted to force me off
>> the road so he could nestle the front bumper of his car up the bumper of
>> the SUV in front of me.... in a traffic jam.
>>
> Any bike lanes on those roads?

Bike lanes? Are you some kind of pussy? Man up boy. No there are no bike
lanes. This is traffic.

> Any speed limits over 30mph?

Iriving park road has a 30mph speed limit, don't expect traffic to go
that slow however. The rest higher. Is this more of your inner wimp
showing?

> If no bike lanes
> and speed limits higher than 30mph, IMHO there is no practical place for
> riding on those roads and those roads should be signed as BICYCLES
> PROHIBITED. If there are bike lanes there is no practical reason not to
> remain in the bike lane.

Yep, you're a wimp. You can't get from A to B without using 30+mph speed
limit roads much of the time. It's part of riding. You need to man up.

>> You will soon either find bicycling totally impractical by your rules or
>> be injured/killed.

> Okay, whatever you say.

Stay in forest preserve then and stop telling people who know how ride
in traffic how things should be. If you cannot get out on two wheels and
ride the way you want other people to ride you have no business telling
other people how it should be done.