celphones was Why not methanol

Harry K wrote:
>
> Arif Khokar wrote:
> > Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > > Again, if you are used to text messaging it's just like touch
> typing and
> > > does not occupy your attention.
> >
> > If I were watching a television program on another screen while
> typing
> > this, either I'm not paying attention to what's happening on tv, or
> I'm
> > not paying attention to what I type. I can't pay attention to both
> at
> > the same time.
>
> Since common sense doesn't seem to work on cell phone users maybe we
> need a special licence. One that requires a large billboard sign on
> top of the vehicle "STAY CLEAR, DISTRACTED DRIVER".
>
> Harry K

To me the answer is clear. Treat them just like a driver
impaired by alcohol. Someone who crashes and is suspected
of alcohol impairment is tested for alcohol and if it is
found they are imprisoned and fined heavily. So, if someone
crashes and there's a cellphone present just pull the call
logs to see if they were on the phone at the time of the
accident and if so, off to prison with mega fines. I
routinely get run off the road or have to take evasive action
to avoid an accident because the other person was on a cell
phone. It's time they start being held responsible for their
actions, just like drunk drivers are now.

JazzMan
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JP White wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
> > Uh, huh... So you think that driving on a well designed road in a normal
> > vehicle at a normal 70 mph (speed limit here) requires extreme
> > concentration? This is not a race track at 180 mph folks, there is
> > indeed extra time to multi task - as long as you keep your eyes on the
> > road.
>
> True 99.999% of the time. It's the 0.001% that will kill you (or worse
> someone else).
>
> I let the cell phone ring off the hook while driving and return the call
> when appropriate. Why let it ring if I won't answer? Just so I know to
> check it later. If it rings 2-3 times in five minutes, then it must be
> urgent, so I find somewhere safe to return the call.
>
> Any idea how many feet per second you travel at 70Mph? The slightest
> distraction can make the difference between a safe stop and a shunt.
>
> Count yourself lucky to be alive. BTW what make/model and color is your
> car? I need to make a mental note.
>
> JP
>
> --
> JP White
>

As I noted that 0.001% of the time, you're just as likely to be
distracted picking your nose as talking on the phone or talking to a
passenger. If you think there is some magic difference between when the
person you are talking to is in the vehicle vs. on the phone you are
delusional. A conversation is a conversation period. If you think that
you shouldn't be having a conversation while driving then let's make all
vehicles driver and cargo only, no passengers allowed...

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:

> If you think there is some magic difference between when the
> person you are talking to is in the vehicle vs. on the phone you are
> delusional.

No, there was a study titled "Cell Phone Use Can Lead to Inattention
Blindness Behind the Wheel," published in the March 2003 issue of the
Journal of Experimental Psychology: Applied that concluded that there
was a difference between the two.

Pete C. wrote:
>
> As I noted that 0.001% of the time, you're just as likely to be
> distracted picking your nose as talking on the phone or talking to a
> passenger.

You do a lot more than talk tho'. Text messaging? Good Grief!!

JP

If you think there is some magic difference between when the
> person you are talking to is in the vehicle vs. on the phone you are
> delusional. A conversation is a conversation period. If you think that
> you shouldn't be having a conversation while driving then let's make all
> vehicles driver and cargo only, no passengers allowed...
>

Have you never noticed the driver weaving all over the road because
he/she was having an animated conversation with the person in the
passenger seat? Some people don't know how important it is to keep the
eyes focused ahead (and check the other directions occassionally). You
simply can't do a decent job while on the phone, or eating a big mac or
drinking coffee, or arguing with you wife in the passenger seat. Those
activities are best for off the road.

JP

--
JP White

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 02:03:39 +0000, Pete C. wrote:

['nothing can happen to me']

Studies have shown time and again that the risk of being in a fatal
collision while on the cellphone is about as high as if you were driving
under the influence of .1% BAC and that reaction times and decision
making are impaired just as if you were drunk.

If you seriously think this doesn't apply to you you are not responsible
enough to drive a car.

Chris

JP White wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
> >
> > As I noted that 0.001% of the time, you're just as likely to be
> > distracted picking your nose as talking on the phone or talking to a
> > passenger.
>
> You do a lot more than talk tho'. Text messaging? Good Grief!!
>
> JP
>
> If you think there is some magic difference between when the
> > person you are talking to is in the vehicle vs. on the phone you are
> > delusional. A conversation is a conversation period. If you think that
> > you shouldn't be having a conversation while driving then let's make all
> > vehicles driver and cargo only, no passengers allowed...
> >
>
> Have you never noticed the driver weaving all over the road because
> he/she was having an animated conversation with the person in the
> passenger seat? Some people don't know how important it is to keep the
> eyes focused ahead (and check the other directions occassionally). You
> simply can't do a decent job while on the phone, or eating a big mac or
> drinking coffee, or arguing with you wife in the passenger seat. Those
> activities are best for off the road.
>
> JP
>
> --
> JP White
>

The key here is "some people", not all people are the same, have the
same skills or the same self control to maintain focus on driving at the
expense of focus on other activities.

As far as text messaging goes, a "beginner" will do the hunt and peck
thing when messaging. An experiences messager can type accurately and
without requiring excessive attention while holding the phone behind
their back. It's no different than typing on a regular keyboard (or
driving a manual transmission for that matter). Once you learn it it
becomes automatic and the only thing you think about is content, not how
to type it.

You only need the phone in your view to read incoming messages, and when
you hold the phone at arms length on top of the dashboard it is no more
of a distraction than reading the street signs you are passing. Where
people get in trouble is holding the phone in their lap and looking
down.

Pete C.

"JP White" > wrote in message
. ..
> True 99.999% of the time. It's the 0.001% that will kill you (or worse
> someone else).
>

I think that's it. Any activity that might require you to take time off
the road for more than a glance is risky. I really like air conditioner
knobs and radio dials or big buttons. I don't actually have to look at
them to change the channel or adjust the air conditioner. Some of these new
cars have GPS displays, touch screen air conditioner controls and radio
controls- all well and good but no tactile feedback and they require taking
your eyes off the road. And the worst offender? Center-mounted
speedometers. Whatever happened to all those cool heads up displays we were
promised years ago?

I remember reading an "ad" for electronic stability control. I happen to
think this feature is a good thing to have in a car, but I digress. OTOH,
in the ad they are talking about a mother driving quickly with her baby down
a rainy country road, she takes her eyes off the road and one hand to mess
with the kid, and at the last minute she has to swerve to avoid hitting a
truck- but she's alive thanks to ESC, she didn't skid and hit the tree.
Well, the articles fails to mention that maybe if the woman was not fooling
with the kid, was not driving too fast for conditions (rain, messing with
her child), maybe she wouldn't have needed ESC in the first place.

They will never ban cell phones in cars though. Too manny well-heeled
executives yacking on phones.

I really dislike my dad yacking on his cell phone when he drives. Sure,
he has a hands free setup, but still, he's debating multi-million dollar
contracts and arguing with people all. And yet when I have a conversation
with him while driving, sometimes he's like "can't you see I'm trying to
drive?" Well, Ok, I guess the cell phone is "less" distracting? I don't
think so. What's happened is the cell phone has totally swallowed up his
attention, whereas a conversation perhaps begs it to be pulled away?

So, I'm all in favor of banning cell phones altogether in cars, I just
don't think it will happen.

In article >, Magnulus wrote:
> If people have so much free time on their hands that they can yack on a
> cell phone and type text messages, then they are not spending enough time
> paying attention to the road. If people are getting so bored from driving
> that they have to yack and yack or argue while driving, again, they aren't
> paying attention to the road.

Haven't you been arguing against practically everything that the majority
of r.a.d regulars believe in? Things like keep right except to pass, 85th
percentile speed limits, etc and so forth? I may be mistaken, but I
think that was you, right?

In any case, that boredom, that feeling they can do other things while
driving, from phone calls to eating lunch comes from the idiotcy of
lowest common demonator driving in the USA. Low speed limits, no lane
displine, etc and so forth. When I did my drive the speed-limit
experiments to prove how out of touch the speed limits were I became so
bored while driving, I wanted a TV to watch or a computer to use. That's
what happens when driving is dumbed down.

People get bored. Some compensate in other ways, by driving faster and
using traffic a series of problems to solve. Finding better ways around,
etc and so forth.This is good, because it demands paying attention to
the road and the conditions in fine detail. Some compensate in other
ways that are negative. Such as by taking risks, cutting people off,
passing on shoulders, and just generally being reckless. Others yet just
decide to watch TV, read the paper and talk on the phone.

Since there is no lane displine, the system such that no matter what
you do the other guy has to avoid you, there are no consquences to reading
the paper or cutting people off. Thusly no consquences to driving
distracted until actually hitting something.

In article >, Pete C. wrote:

> Uh, huh... So you think that driving on a well designed road in a normal
> vehicle at a normal 70 mph (speed limit here) requires extreme
> concentration? This is not a race track at 180 mph folks, there is
> indeed extra time to multi task - as long as you keep your eyes on the
> road.

You drive in the nevada desert? Where I drive, there isn't any time to
multitask at any speed. I use all my attention to track every vehicle
around me. Not just drive so I don't hit anything or can react, but
actually track vehicles in front of me and behind me. Predict their
future moves. Predict which lane will get me past the next blockage, etc
and so forth.

> And no, I never let the phone distract me any more than a conversation
> with someone in the passenger seat. I *always* keep my eyes on the road
> ahead, *and* pay attention to what's going on in my mirrors. A lot of
> people these days seem to forget that they even have mirrors. If
> something requires additional attention I drop the phone just as I would
> stop talking to a passenger.

I doubt you put in anywhere close to the amount of attention I do to the
task if you are also doing something other than driving.

> The same with text messaging, it is no more distracting than checking
> the speedometer, fuel gauge or radio station in your peripheral vision.

Really? I had one of those text pagers... I got page when I was driving
once. I decided the distraction of fetching it, and reading it was
unsatisfactory. I didn't look at them any more until I was stopped at a
red signal. responding would have been a nightmare.