Experience at Honda dealer

Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2005 20:17:39 -0800, "Tush Smells Bush Kills!!!!!!!!!!!"
> > wrote:
>
> >Carmax is a joke. Their offer was only 50% of the kbb trade-in on my
> >parent's car. They ended up getting three times that amount in an
> >insurance settlement, after it was totalled in an accident.
>
> My only experience with them was helping a friend car shop. They were
> low pressure and friendly, but their prices (both buying and selling)
> were not competitive. If their no-haggle price was just an asking
> price they might be in the ball park. i guess they have a lot of
> overhead to pay for.

I was waiting in an office while they were appraising my vehicle, and
the Carmax salesguy kept badgering me about purchasing a car from them.
I remarked how expensive their cars were and he just simply said their
prices were competitive. Yeah, with new cars maybe. I swear, you can
get brand new cars for the prices they charge on most of their used
cars.

>
> Still I can see why they might appeal to someone who is used to
> getting raped in the car buying process.

Which is why Saturn's still around. Morons keep paying full price for
inferior GM products, because they have phobias about negotiating.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Howard Lester" > wrote:
>
> > >> You have three transactions: new car sale, old car sale, and money
sale.
> > >> Letting one guy quarterback all three of them is crazy.
> > >>
> > > Not always true. For example if he really needs the sale he may be
> > > prepared to reduce the sales price a little IF he gets the finance as
> > > well.
> > >
> > > As to the trade-in, you may get a few more dollars with a private
sale,
> > > but sell to the dealer and no haggling etc
> >
> > I think what Elmo is referring to is the principle of first negotiating
the
> > new car price (without telling the salesperson you have a trade-in),
THEN
> > negotiate the price of the trade-in.
>
> That's perfectly legitimate. Get the numbers in stone one at a time,
> independent of one another.
>

If the numbers are good, it can be a good deal. A good dealer can take the
trade-in price off of the price of the new vehicle, thereby reducing sales
taxes, maybe to a point where you couldn't get a better deal selling to a
third party.

Btw, next time a car dealer tells you that you are taking away his kid's
next meal, ask to see where he lives. Chances are he has a nicer house than
you do...

Gordon McGrew wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2005 20:17:39 -0800, "Tush Smells Bush Kills!!!!!!!!!!!"
> > wrote:
>
>> Carmax is a joke. Their offer was only 50% of the kbb trade-in on my
>> parent's car. They ended up getting three times that amount in an
>> insurance settlement, after it was totalled in an accident.
>
> My only experience with them was helping a friend car shop. They were
> low pressure and friendly, but their prices (both buying and selling)
> were not competitive. If their no-haggle price was just an asking
> price they might be in the ball park. i guess they have a lot of
> overhead to pay for.

a coworker got a C230 sedan with 8k miles for a shade under $30k. a
brand spanking new one would have been a little more. or even less, if
hed bought when MBUSA was giving incentives.
>
> Still I can see why they might appeal to someone who is used to
> getting raped in the car buying process.

yeah- you only get raped a "little".

Tush Smells Bush Kills!!!!!!!!!!! wrote:
> Gordon McGrew wrote:
>> On 27 Nov 2005 20:17:39 -0800, "Tush Smells Bush Kills!!!!!!!!!!!"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Carmax is a joke. Their offer was only 50% of the kbb trade-in on my
>>> parent's car. They ended up getting three times that amount in an
>>> insurance settlement, after it was totalled in an accident.
>> My only experience with them was helping a friend car shop. They were
>> low pressure and friendly, but their prices (both buying and selling)
>> were not competitive. If their no-haggle price was just an asking
>> price they might be in the ball park. i guess they have a lot of
>> overhead to pay for.
>
> I was waiting in an office while they were appraising my vehicle, and
> the Carmax salesguy kept badgering me about purchasing a car from them.
> I remarked how expensive their cars were and he just simply said their
> prices were competitive. Yeah, with new cars maybe. I swear, you can
> get brand new cars for the prices they charge on most of their used
> cars.
>
>> Still I can see why they might appeal to someone who is used to
>> getting raped in the car buying process.
>
> Which is why Saturn's still around. Morons keep paying full price for
> inferior GM products, because they have phobias about negotiating.
>
saturn knows their target market and prices (IMO) fairly and
accordingly. for the longest time my local dealer was giving 0% interest
for 60mos, so thats another draw.

toyotas scion division also doesnt haggle, and those cars are
exceptional values. an honest to god built in japan car with standard
air, power windows/locks and pioneer premium CD system for about $13k.

Bozo wrote:

>> You have three transactions: new car sale, old car sale, and money
>> sale. Letting one guy quarterback all three of them is crazy.
>>
> Not always true. For example if he really needs the sale he may be
> prepared to reduce the sales price a little IF he gets the finance as well.

Plus Honda Finance may be willing to give you a good, i.e., low, rate to
help move cars - rather than posting absolutes, e.g., NEVER xxx, ALWAYS
zzz, I think it's generally a good idea to shop around and see what's
best when you're cutting your deal. I financed my '03 Accord at 3.64%
from Honda Finance, which was substantially lower than even the bank I
worked for (where I got a "deal").

mrdancer wrote:

> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>In article >,
>> "Howard Lester" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>You have three transactions: new car sale, old car sale, and money
>
> sale.
>
>>>>>Letting one guy quarterback all three of them is crazy.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Not always true. For example if he really needs the sale he may be
>>>>prepared to reduce the sales price a little IF he gets the finance as
>>>>well.
>>>>
>>>>As to the trade-in, you may get a few more dollars with a private
>
> sale,
>
>>>>but sell to the dealer and no haggling etc
>>>
>>>I think what Elmo is referring to is the principle of first negotiating
>
> the
>
>>>new car price (without telling the salesperson you have a trade-in),
>
> THEN
>
>>>negotiate the price of the trade-in.
>>
>>That's perfectly legitimate. Get the numbers in stone one at a time,
>>independent of one another.
>
> If the numbers are good, it can be a good deal. A good dealer can take the
> trade-in price off of the price of the new vehicle, thereby reducing sales
> taxes, maybe to a point where you couldn't get a better deal selling to a
> third party.
>
> Btw, next time a car dealer tells you that you are taking away his kid's
> next meal

Better yet, tell him to switch careers and point out that by extorting
more $$$ from you he's taking food from your kids & you care more about
them than you do his.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

> In article >,
> Bozo > wrote:
>
>
>>>You have three transactions: new car sale, old car sale, and money
>>>sale. Letting one guy quarterback all three of them is crazy.
>>>
>>
>>Not always true. For example if he really needs the sale he may be
>>prepared to reduce the sales price a little IF he gets the finance as well.
>
>
> The point is, the car salesman is in charge of too many things. His job
> is to find the buyer's hot button (low finance rate, good trade value,
> whatever) and play to that while jacking the other items around--all
> toward the end of making the sucker pay the same amount in the end.
>
> The car salesman does this several times a day. The buyer does it once
> every few years. Who do you think wins?
>
> The only way to prevent this from happening is to separate the deals, so
> that no one person has any more affect than any other on the entire
> deal--no matter what the buyer's hot button.

Sorry, the "only way to" is seldom that. If the purchaser does his
homework (easy to do these days with the Internet) and behaves
rationally there's no reason the sales person should prevail. If he's
being a real PITA, just thank him/her for their time and walk out of the
dealership. I know this from experience as well as theory.

Then they would have called you back the next day groveling with a
better deal.

You sure put up with a bunch of crap!

-pete

pichula wrote:

> I went last week to a Honda dealer to trade in my car for a new Accord
> Value Pack (VP, base model). I was surprised by all their tactics to
> get the most out of my money. I don't blame the salesperson because he
> was nice and helpful, but I think the sales manager went a little too
> far in his methods. I also have to say that after the deal was done,
> they were all nice guys and very helpful with all the process. I'm
> going to enumerate the things I consider bad tactics because they were
> just too many:
>
> 1) When I told them I wanted the Value Pack, the manager said that it
> had no power windows. That I better choose the LX or EX. That's not
> true.
>
> 2) When I came back next day he said that VP had no Cruise Control. I
> checked the car I wanted to buy and I noticed the cruise control was
> there.
>
> 3) When we were negotiating the price he showed me the invoice price, I
> said the invoice price I saw at edmunds.com was lower. When he noticed
> I was not accepting that price he showed me that there was about $200
> marketing charge and accepted to remove it. Nothing bad about this part
> because I think dealers usually try to add these hidden charges without
> telling customers.
>
> 4) After negotiating the price for my trade in and the price of the
> Accord VP, he came with a blank page (where all the totals are
> calculated) for me to sign. I said I wanted to see the final numbers
> before I sign the page. I said I cannot sign a blank sheet for them
> later to add the totals. They accepted.
>
> 5) Then he came with the same sheet with a total amount higher than
> what we negotiated. I told them that we had to subtract the amount I
> get from my trade in. At this time the manager pretended to be
> exasperated with me, like if I was asking for too much. He said that he
> would do it later and refused to write it in the sheet. So I took the
> pen and had to do the subtraction in front of him and underlined the
> final amount. He accepted that amount.
>
> 6) At about 9:00 PM (they were already closed but there were still a
> few customers finalizing their deals), I was tired but happy when the
> manager brought the paper work describing my monthly payments. Let me
> say that I have very good credit (over 700), and the manager told me he
> was going to run my information with about 15 banks and get me the best
> deal. Not true, he got me financing with Honda. How can he run my
> information with 15 banks and come with a loan from honda financeing?
> Maybe I'm missing something here. Anyway he got me 6.6% interest which
> I consider too high but I still accepted. Maybe I should have got the
> loan with my credit union.
>
> 7) He showed my monthly payments at about $35 over what I estimated,
> and handed me a pen to sign. I asked me how can it be so high? Then he
> said I was getting the 7 years/100K miles warranty. When I insisted in
> how much it costed, he said $1600. He said if I don't take the warranty
> I'm taking a big risk if the car breaks. I asked him how can he tell me
> these are the best cars in the market and now he's telling me that I'm
> taking a big risk because they can break. Finnally he accepted to
> remove the warranty and I got the payment amount I wanted.
>
> I remember at a Chevrolet dealer in 1998 I had a very good experience
> buying my chevy Malibu, I still remember the name of the Chevy sales
> person (Mike), I can't believe at Honda these guys gave me such a hard
> time.
>
> After the negotiation, the manager and sales person were very nice and
> helpful.
>

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:

<snip>

> But then he wants to jack things around with the financing, so that you
> end up paying huge amounts for the car. Why do you think he won't shut
> up about "what monthly payment are you looking for?" If you recognize
> that question as legitimate, that's what he'll go for--because he can
> hide EVERYTHING in a monthly payment.

When I was negotiating my '03 Accord the salesman asked me about the
monthly payment. I answered that I thought it was a function of the
amount financed and the interest rate - I think he wet his pants.

Money was much cheaper then, 06/03, and the dealer gave me a rate of
3.64% thru Honda Finance, noticeably cheaper than anywhere I checked
(including the bank where I used to work). At that rate Honda's paying
to finance my car - I could have bought the car outright but I'm making
far more than 3.64% by keeping the principal in my investment account.