Fog Lights

Are fog lights really a necessity? I feel that, some time ago, a
manufacturer added fog lamps to its line as a cost-effective marketing ploy.
Of course, all others followed suit.

I have often seen drivers operating fog lights when totally unwarranted
(forgot they were on?).

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 13:32:56 GMT, "lynsam" >
wrote:

>Are fog lights really a necessity? I feel that, some time ago, a
>manufacturer added fog lamps to its line as a cost-effective marketing ploy.
>Of course, all others followed suit.
>
>I have often seen drivers operating fog lights when totally unwarranted
>(forgot they were on?).

You are not alone in your skepticism, brother. In the vast majority of
autos, they serve no more purpose than the dice hanging from the
rear-view. A former contributor to this forum, George McDonald, is
sorely missed because of his huge fund of knowledge (unless he's still
here with a pseudonym). He pointed out several times that fog lamps
were designed ONLY to allow the driver to determine where the edge of
the road is in fog so thick that headlamps could not penetrate it even
as far as the pavement. These conditions are almost NEVER encountered
in 99% of the continental US, but when they are, one would probably be
driving no more than 5 mph. How often do any of us encounter fog like
that? While there are EXTREMELY rare owners who have legitimate uses
for fog lamps, the overwhelming majority of fog lamps serve NO purpose
other than flooding the retinas of oncoming drivers and thereby
actually reducing to some extent the safety of the person "using"
them.

I think that fog lamps are so foolish that their implementation should
be restricted in some way -- like overly tinted windows, driving
exclusively in the left lane of freeways, faulty mufflers, etc.
Turning them on when the weather's not inclement should be a minor
misdemeanor.

<let the flaming begin>



Ron

"lynsam" > wrote in message
...
> Are fog lights really a necessity? I feel that, some time ago, a
> manufacturer added fog lamps to its line as a cost-effective marketing
> ploy. Of course, all others followed suit.
>
> I have often seen drivers operating fog lights when totally unwarranted
> (forgot they were on?).

Actually, I believe it is a case of those drivers being too ignorant or
stupid to turn the fog lights off.

Brian

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 13:32:56 GMT, "lynsam" >
wrote:

>Are fog lights really a necessity? I feel that, some time ago, a
>manufacturer added fog lamps to its line as a cost-effective marketing ploy.
>Of course, all others followed suit.
>
>I have often seen drivers operating fog lights when totally unwarranted
>(forgot they were on?).
>
>
In the UK, it is an offense to drive with front or rear fog lights in
operation when the visibility is greater than 100metres.

As for notbeing able to turn them off - i had a little test in my
wifes 96 town+country. The front fogs operate by pulling out the
headlight dial when it is at the dipped 9low beam) position. When the
lights are turrned off, the dial moves itself back in, thus
extinguishing the lights, and requiring them to be manually enabled
the next time.

Rear fog lights, however (which don't seem to even be an option in the
US, let alone standard) are often toggle-switched. Many's the person
i've seen tootling around in their Ford fiesta with the bracketed fog
light on, in broad daylight. (typically rear fog lights use the same
wattage bulbs as brake lights, but are docused to give light in a
20-ish degree cone directly behind the car - very much a
position/marker light.

Milleron > wrote in
:

> On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 13:32:56 GMT, "lynsam" >
> wrote:
>
>>Are fog lights really a necessity? I feel that, some time ago, a
>>manufacturer added fog lamps to its line as a cost-effective marketing
>>ploy. Of course, all others followed suit.
>>
>>I have often seen drivers operating fog lights when totally
>>unwarranted (forgot they were on?).
>
> You are not alone in your skepticism, brother. In the vast majority of
> autos, they serve no more purpose than the dice hanging from the
> rear-view. A former contributor to this forum, George McDonald,


The surname is spelled "Macdonald".



> is
> sorely missed because of his huge fund of knowledge


Yep.


> (unless he's still
> here with a pseudonym). He pointed out several times that fog lamps
> were designed ONLY to allow the driver to determine where the edge of
> the road is in fog so thick that headlamps could not penetrate it even
> as far as the pavement.



Not quite. Foglamps are supposed to provide *more* light at the pavement
than headlights could alone in heavy fog.

Few cars are actually equipped with "fog" lamps from the factory. Most of
them are more properly called "auxiliary" lamps, and are more akin to
"driving" lamps that are not supposed to be used in fog. My Integra has
those. They're mostly useless under any conditions, actually.

Aucxiliary lights in most of North America seem to be mostly provided as a
"value-added" item used by automakers to help differentiate lower-spec
models from higher-spec ones.



> These conditions are almost NEVER encountered
> in 99% of the continental US, but when they are, one would probably be
> driving no more than 5 mph. How often do any of us encounter fog like
> that? While there are EXTREMELY rare owners who have legitimate uses
> for fog lamps, the overwhelming majority of fog lamps serve NO purpose
> other than flooding the retinas of oncoming drivers and thereby
> actually reducing to some extent the safety of the person "using"
> them.
>
> I think that fog lamps are so foolish that their implementation should
> be restricted in some way


They are. In many jurisdictions, bylaws exist that restrict or prohibit
usage in urban areas. Not that this gets enforced much...


If you want some real bang-up information, try posting this exact thing to
rec.autos.tech. There is one poster who works in the automotive lighting
industry, and this specific subject is one of his sore points.


--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

flobert > wrote in
:

>
> Rear fog lights, however (which don't seem to even be an option in the
> US, let alone standard)



Manufacturers have been legally required to install rear fogs in the UK
since about the early '90s, IIRC.

An interesting snippet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_signal#Rear_Fog_Lamps

The vast majority of North American drivers will experience UK-style fog
maybe once or twice in their entire lives. Rear fogs are not really
necessary here.




--
TeGGeR®

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

TeGGeR® wrote:
>
> The vast majority of North American drivers will experience UK-style fog
> maybe once or twice in their entire lives.


Unless there are Porsche enthusiasts nearby, many of whom fit a Bosch
rear fog below the rear bumper, driver's side, as a "standard tweak".

Then there are the Merc drivers who are oblivious to the rear fog in the
tail lamp cluster being illuminated, day in, day out, day and night.

"TeGGeR®" > wrote in message
...
>
> Manufacturers have been legally required to install rear fogs in the UK
> since about the early '90s, IIRC.
>
> An interesting snippet:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_signal#Rear_Fog_Lamps
>
> The vast majority of North American drivers will experience UK-style fog
> maybe once or twice in their entire lives. Rear fogs are not really
> necessary here.

Here in Nova Scotia it's fairly common to see vehicles with the rear fog
lights. Or the brighter than usual rear tailight on the side close to the
centre line of the roadway.

Brian

On 22 Aug 2005 21:23:29 GMT, "TeGGeR®" > wrote:

>flobert > wrote in
:
>
>>
>> Rear fog lights, however (which don't seem to even be an option in the
>> US, let alone standard)
>
>
>
>Manufacturers have been legally required to install rear fogs in the UK
>since about the early '90s, IIRC.

Way before that. early 80s AFAIK.mid at the latest.

>
>An interesting snippet:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_signal#Rear_Fog_Lamps

Interesting page. SEems to ahve been written by an american though who
has little experiance of uk laws and practices. A clear example is
"For this reason, many European vehicles imported to the United States
have their rear fog lamps wired as brake lamps" Brake and fog lights
typically use the same power bulbs, yes, but a brake light is not a
focused beam, a fog light is, directed almost totally aft. They're
designed to be intentionally bright from behind. Not good to dazzle
with an intense pseudo brake light.

>
>The vast majority of North American drivers will experience UK-style fog
>maybe once or twice in their entire lives. Rear fogs are not really
>necessary here.

ACtually, i have had more severe lack of visibility here in georgia in
the last 3 months. One time, 5 weeks ago, visibility was so bad, i
could barely see the lines even with my head out the window,5 feet in
front of the vehicle. I was crawling at 10mph that night, and very
wet. Was lucky it was my old caravan in fact, the length of the bonnet
compared with the seat height, and the distance to the windscreen in
any other vehicle i have is much worse.


, than i've had in the last 7 years in the UK. Don't get me started
about the last time i was in

On 22 Aug 2005 21:23:29 GMT, "TeGGeR®" > wrote:

>The vast majority of North American drivers will experience UK-style fog
>maybe once or twice in their entire lives. Rear fogs are not really
>necessary here.

Using the term vast majority is probably correct, but growing up in
So. Calif. where I did, it was very common. More than once I turned
in the wrong driveway trying to get home, and I have had to climb up a
street marker post to read the street signs. Dust is another problem
in the U.S. Lots of rear-end accidents when the dust blows. I think
what's really needed is a powerful strobe-type light that really
lights up the fog so you know there is something there.

Dick