new Honda CR-V break in

On 01/02/2010 12:18 PM, Guy wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim > wrote:
>
>> On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote:
>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly.
>>>>> What is the proper way?
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best
>>>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and
>>>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic.
>>>>
>>>> Follow the manual and the minder.
>>>>
>>>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably
>>>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on
>>>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello.
>>>>
>>>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me.
>>>>
>>>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different
>>>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder
>>>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other
>>>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed.
>>>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then,
>>>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not
>>>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point!
>>>>
>>>> J.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read
>>> the manual
>>
>> you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy.
>> contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify
>> /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength.
>>
>>
>
> Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick.

so you're not here to learn anything - you're just here to "chat". i
should have realized.


> But I
> guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and
> impress everyone else with your wisdom now !

idiot.

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:33:36 -0800, jim beam > wrote:

>On 01/02/2010 12:18 PM, Guy wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim > wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly.
>>>>>> What is the proper way?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best
>>>>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and
>>>>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Follow the manual and the minder.
>>>>>
>>>>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably
>>>>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on
>>>>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different
>>>>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder
>>>>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other
>>>>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed.
>>>>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then,
>>>>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not
>>>>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point!
>>>>>
>>>>> J.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read
>>>> the manual
>>>
>>> you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy.
>>> contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify
>>> /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick.
>
>so you're not here to learn anything - you're just here to "chat". i
>should have realized.
>
>
>> But I
>> guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and
>> impress everyone else with your wisdom now !
>
>idiot.

Impressive ...

On 01/02/2010 12:44 PM, Guy wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:33:36 -0800, jim > wrote:
>
>> On 01/02/2010 12:18 PM, Guy wrote:
>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly.
>>>>>>> What is the proper way?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best
>>>>>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and
>>>>>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow the manual and the minder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably
>>>>>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on
>>>>>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different
>>>>>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder
>>>>>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other
>>>>>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed.
>>>>>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then,
>>>>>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not
>>>>>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> J.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read
>>>>> the manual
>>>>
>>>> you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy.
>>>> contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify
>>>> /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick.
>>
>> so you're not here to learn anything - you're just here to "chat". i
>> should have realized.
>>
>>
>>> But I
>>> guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and
>>> impress everyone else with your wisdom now !
>>
>> idiot.
>
> Impressive ...

what would be impressive is you bothering to pay attention to this
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/killfile-faq/

but that wouldn't be boredom-relieving "chat" - would it.

jim beam > wrote in
t:

> On 01/02/2010 06:57 AM, Tegger wrote:
>> jim > wrote in news:Kf-

>
> in my opinion, 45 N.m is over-tightening. two reasons:
>
> 1. the oil pan is a relatively soft material - it has to be to be
> formed out of a single piece of steel like that. torque near yield,
> plus thermal cycling loads - too close for my comfort.



The threads that form the drain plug hole are not made of the same piece of
steel as the pan. The drain hole threads are punched into a small rectangle
of much thicker metal that's spot-welded to the inside of the pan.

Check your oil pan (or find a loose engine in a wrecking yard and pull the
pan off that). On either side of the drain hole, you'll find two small spot
welds. These are the welds that hold the rectangle of metal in place.

When you look at that rectangle from the inside of the pan, you can plainly
see that it's made of much thicker steel than the pan itself. Honda (or its
supplier) punches the hole in the rectangle, threads it, the welds it to
the pan.

The threaded rectangle on my original pan and the one on the new pan
(installed 1994) were definitely of different thicknesses, with the new one
being thicker. I believe Honda has changed the pans since 1991, and that's
why we don't hear of stripped drain plugs nearly as often as we used to ten
years ago.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

jim beam > wrote in news:Y5ednS-
:

> On 01/02/2010 11:36 AM, Greg wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 1999 or not, that doesn't change the physics. think of it like this:
>>> solid ice can rough you up pretty badly. water offers almost no
>>> lubrication worth worrying about. but ice slurry, where the smaller
>>> particles are free to slide among themselves, can be a fantastic
>>> remover of friction.
>>
>> I think you need to re-think this one.
>> A 'slurry' of metal particles is going to lubricate better than clean
>> oil?? LOL!
>
> the majority of particulate matter in oil is combustion product, not
> metal. if /you/ have a slurry of metal particles in your oil, you have
> a problem.




True, and much of that will be soot (about 1 micron in size).



>
>
>> I don't think you understand how a hydrodynamic bearing works, nor do
>> you appreciate how vanishingly thin the oil film is under load.
>
> you're contradicting yourself. hydrodynamic separation, by definition,
> means there is sufficient thickness to keep the two solid surfaces
> apart. if they're not separated, then it's not hydrodynamic.
>



The integrity of the thin part of the "oil wedge" is the key to lubricant
effectiveness in protecting those hydrodynamic bearings.

The thin part of the wedge is thin indeed, and contaminant particles must
be small enough that they are smaller than the wedge, otherwise abrasion
will occur.

Consider that crankshaft main-bearing-to-journal clearance is on the order
of 25-50 microns. The thickness of the thin part of the wedge will be less
than that. I've read that a common automotive oil filter efficiency is
about 30 microns, so you haven't got much there before wear occurs in the
presence of metallic particles.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:56:43 -0800, jim beam > wrote:

>On 01/02/2010 12:44 PM, Guy wrote:
>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:33:36 -0800, jim > wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/02/2010 12:18 PM, Guy wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly.
>>>>>>>> What is the proper way?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best
>>>>>>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and
>>>>>>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Follow the manual and the minder.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably
>>>>>>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on
>>>>>>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different
>>>>>>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder
>>>>>>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other
>>>>>>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed.
>>>>>>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then,
>>>>>>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not
>>>>>>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> J.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read
>>>>>> the manual
>>>>>
>>>>> you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy.
>>>>> contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify
>>>>> /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick.
>>>
>>> so you're not here to learn anything - you're just here to "chat". i
>>> should have realized.
>>>
>>>
>>>> But I
>>>> guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and
>>>> impress everyone else with your wisdom now !
>>>
>>> idiot.
>>
>> Impressive ...
>
>what would be impressive is you bothering to pay attention to this
>http://www.faqs.org/faqs/killfile-faq/
>
>but that wouldn't be boredom-relieving "chat" - would it.


Usually what I'm about to say uses the word "screws" but in your case
considering your last name and your posts in this thread, there is no
doubt to us normal people you are missing or have some loose bolts.

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 17:41:26 -0600, "Guy" > wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:56:43 -0800, jim beam > wrote:
>
>>On 01/02/2010 12:44 PM, Guy wrote:
>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:33:36 -0800, jim > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/02/2010 12:18 PM, Guy wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:55:01 -0800, jim > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/02/2010 11:40 AM, Guy wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 11:11:31 -0800, >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 31 Dec 2009 19:41:07 -0600, > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I got a new 2010 CR-V and wife asked me how to break it in properly.
>>>>>>>>> What is the proper way?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't care what the manual says. What do you guys feel is the best
>>>>>>>>> mileage to do the first oil change? I normally change my oil and
>>>>>>>>> filter around 3500 miles on my other cars with no synthetic.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Follow the manual and the minder.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They say no restrictions on driving from day one, and you'll probably
>>>>>>>> go about a normal oil change distance, about 6k miles depending on
>>>>>>>> your driving habits, before the minder says hello.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's what Honda wants to honor the warranty, seems good to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Engineering, materials, manufacturing are all really, really different
>>>>>>>> now than thirty years ago, I haven't heard anyone accusing the minder
>>>>>>>> of being too conservative about oil changes, maybe a little the other
>>>>>>>> way in fact, recommending changes a little sooner than really needed.
>>>>>>>> Plus, you might get paranoid when it says 15% left and change it then,
>>>>>>>> when you really can run it to zero, usually another 1,000 miles. Not
>>>>>>>> like the car grinds to a halt at that point!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> J.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks JR, I gotcha. That sounds reasonable. I do intend to read
>>>>>>> the manual
>>>>>>
>>>>>> you've been "intending" to read the manual for some time now guy.
>>>>>> contrasted with the time you've /actually/ spent here trying to justify
>>>>>> /not/ reading it of course. but we already know logic is not your strength.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I can't read the manual because I stuck inside sick.
>>>>
>>>> so you're not here to learn anything - you're just here to "chat". i
>>>> should have realized.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> But I
>>>>> guess that doesn't compute in your disillusional mind. Go ahead and
>>>>> impress everyone else with your wisdom now !
>>>>
>>>> idiot.
>>>
>>> Impressive ...
>>
>>what would be impressive is you bothering to pay attention to this
>>http://www.faqs.org/faqs/killfile-faq/
>>
>>but that wouldn't be boredom-relieving "chat" - would it.
>
>
>Usually what I'm about to say uses the word "screws" but in your case
>considering your last name and your posts in this thread, there is no
>doubt to us normal people you are missing or have some loose bolts.

Actually you might be missing some nuts and bolts.... how appropriate
it fits the name and the type person at the same time.

On 01/02/2010 02:25 PM, Tegger wrote:
> jim > wrote in news:Y5ednS-
> :
>
>> On 01/02/2010 11:36 AM, Greg wrote:
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> 1999 or not, that doesn't change the physics. think of it like this:
>>>> solid ice can rough you up pretty badly. water offers almost no
>>>> lubrication worth worrying about. but ice slurry, where the smaller
>>>> particles are free to slide among themselves, can be a fantastic
>>>> remover of friction.
>>>
>>> I think you need to re-think this one.
>>> A 'slurry' of metal particles is going to lubricate better than clean
>>> oil?? LOL!
>>
>> the majority of particulate matter in oil is combustion product, not
>> metal. if /you/ have a slurry of metal particles in your oil, you have
>> a problem.
>
>
>
>
> True, and much of that will be soot (about 1 micron in size).
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> I don't think you understand how a hydrodynamic bearing works, nor do
>>> you appreciate how vanishingly thin the oil film is under load.
>>
>> you're contradicting yourself. hydrodynamic separation, by definition,
>> means there is sufficient thickness to keep the two solid surfaces
>> apart. if they're not separated, then it's not hydrodynamic.
>>
>
>
>
> The integrity of the thin part of the "oil wedge" is the key to lubricant
> effectiveness in protecting those hydrodynamic bearings.

mostly, yes.

for illustration, poke about he
http://www.tribology-abc.com/sub11.htm


>
> The thin part of the wedge is thin indeed, and contaminant particles must
> be small enough that they are smaller than the wedge, otherwise abrasion
> will occur.
>
> Consider that crankshaft main-bearing-to-journal clearance is on the order
> of 25-50 microns. The thickness of the thin part of the wedge will be less
> than that. I've read that a common automotive oil filter efficiency is
> about 30 microns, so you haven't got much there before wear occurs in the
> presence of metallic particles.
>

but metallics are a small proportion. and /some/ metallics can be
beneficial - the soft ones like brass and lead for instance.

regarding particle size:

http://mr2.com/TEXT/oil_filter_test.html

i need to refresh my memory on typical hydrodynamic separations for
journal bearings, but typical filtered oil particle size really isn't a
problem.

quickly googling, i find this! powder separated journal bearings?!!!
whoda thunk...
http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/serv...ifs=yes&ref=no

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article >,
> "Guy" > wrote:
>
>> Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and
>> still no problems.
>
> hehehehe--reminds me of my 79 Civic. The oil system had a nifty
> self-changing feature. When the oil light flickered during hard right
> turns, it was time to add more oil.


Heh heh... I can vouch for that after a valve cover seal failed on one
of my Civics. Doesn't take long to empty it out! Had to spring for a
$5+ (ouch!) bottle of oil to get home where I promptly replaced the
gasket...

JT

The book that comes with the car does talk about additional servicing
requirements in special circumstances 0- that may help.

Honestly you'd be better sticking to a dealer, standard servicing and the
oil Honda recommends

The CRV uses long life fluids (including coolant and PAS) so ensure that IF
you need to top anything up use the Honda stuff

If you care about the car then there's the usual advice - check fluids
regularly, don't thrash a cold engine and no VERY heavy braking for a few
thousand miles, give it a polish before winter and clean salt off the
"chassis"
"Grumpy AuContraire" > wrote in message
...
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article >,
>> "Guy" > wrote:
>>
>>> Personally I've read Hondas can be abused and
>>> still no problems.
>>
>> hehehehe--reminds me of my 79 Civic. The oil system had a nifty
>> self-changing feature. When the oil light flickered during hard right
>> turns, it was time to add more oil.
>
>
> Heh heh... I can vouch for that after a valve cover seal failed on one of
> my Civics. Doesn't take long to empty it out! Had to spring for a $5+
> (ouch!) bottle of oil to get home where I promptly replaced the gasket...
>
> JT
>