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#21
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Why Not Let Honda Et Al. Take Over GM?
News wrote: > > > Elle wrote: > >> "News" > wrote in message >> t... >> >>> >>> Elle wrote: >>> >>>> "News" > wrote >>>> Elle wrote >>>> >>>> >>>>>> So you are unaware of the bailout. Wrong thread for you. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> And you don't know what you don't know. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Likewise chief. >>> >>> >>> You got the last part right. >> >> >> >> It's all correct, troll. > > > > Be sure to let us know when yout deal closes. > > Better not hold your breath, you ignorant snot. Hey, are you one of them thar' robot monkeys walding the unemployment pavement? JT |
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#22
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Why Not Let Honda Et Al. Take Over GM?
Tony Hwang > wrote in
: > Elle wrote: >> Is any other Honda enthusiast struck by the U.S. Congress's >> and President's effort to shore up and nationalize companies >> that make terrible automobiles and have long promoted >> gluttony by consumers? Why not instead compel, one way or >> another, mergers with Honda, Toyota, and Subaru or Nissan >> such that they would agree to start new plants, employ many >> of Detroit's former workers, and fill the gap that the >> demise of Detroit's auto companies would unquestionably >> cause? >> >> > Hi, > Big 3 can make cars superior to Honda and others. If top game caller > is engineering backgroundtype. Book keeper type has had top jobs who > created wrong market/product strategy. "Alfred P. Sloan". Look it up. "Book keeper type" has nothing to do with the problem. Alfred Sloan was the consummate bookkeeper, and he drove GM to heights they've never seen since. You want to know what's really wrong with the domestics? Here's another name to consider: Caterpillar. That would be the US construction equipment company. The domestic automakers committed delayed suicide in the '80s when they caved in to exorbitant unions demands. Frantic to keep the lines running in the face of Japanese competition, domestic automaker management said we'll give you everything you want, just get back to work. And the government agreed to guarantee those demands. Caterpillar alone refused to knuckle under to those very same union demands at that very same time. And the union struck. I still remember seeing Cat workers trudging the picket line month after month after month, as the months seemed to stretch into years. I still remember wondering if Cat would even survive as a company. Eventually, the union caved. Not only did Cat survive, Caterpillar today has legacy costs not any different from any of its foreign competitors, and remains highly competitive (and profitable) in its markets. Bad management + bad government = bad mix. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
#23
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Why Not Let Honda Et Al. Take Over GM?
Grumpy AuContraire wrote: > > > News wrote: > >> >> >> Elle wrote: >> >>> "News" > wrote in message >>> t... >>> >>>> >>>> Elle wrote: >>>> >>>>> "News" > wrote >>>>> Elle wrote >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> So you are unaware of the bailout. Wrong thread for you. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> And you don't know what you don't know. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Likewise chief. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> You got the last part right. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> It's all correct, troll. >> >> >> >> >> Be sure to let us know when your deal closes. >> >> Better not hold your breath, you ignorant snot. > > > > Hey, are you one of them thar' robot monkeys walding the unemployment > pavement? > > JT You and your pal the ignorant snot are in way over your heads. |
#24
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Why Not Let Honda Et Al. Take Over GM?
Tegger wrote:
> Tony Hwang > wrote in > : > >> Elle wrote: >>> Is any other Honda enthusiast struck by the U.S. Congress's >>> and President's effort to shore up and nationalize companies >>> that make terrible automobiles and have long promoted >>> gluttony by consumers? Why not instead compel, one way or >>> another, mergers with Honda, Toyota, and Subaru or Nissan >>> such that they would agree to start new plants, employ many >>> of Detroit's former workers, and fill the gap that the >>> demise of Detroit's auto companies would unquestionably >>> cause? >>> >>> >> Hi, >> Big 3 can make cars superior to Honda and others. If top game caller >> is engineering backgroundtype. Book keeper type has had top jobs who >> created wrong market/product strategy. > > > > "Alfred P. Sloan". Look it up. "Book keeper type" has nothing to do with > the problem. Alfred Sloan was the consummate bookkeeper, and he drove GM to > heights they've never seen since. > > You want to know what's really wrong with the domestics? Here's another > name to consider: Caterpillar. That would be the US construction equipment > company. > > The domestic automakers committed delayed suicide in the '80s when they > caved in to exorbitant unions demands. Frantic to keep the lines running in > the face of Japanese competition, domestic automaker management said we'll > give you everything you want, just get back to work. And the government > agreed to guarantee those demands. > > Caterpillar alone refused to knuckle under to those very same union demands > at that very same time. And the union struck. I still remember seeing Cat > workers trudging the picket line month after month after month, as the > months seemed to stretch into years. I still remember wondering if Cat > would even survive as a company. Eventually, the union caved. Not only did > Cat survive, Caterpillar today has legacy costs not any different from any > of its foreign competitors, and remains highly competitive (and profitable) > in its markets. > > Bad management + bad government = bad mix. > > Hi, Any way, this weeks TIME mag. has an article. |
#25
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Why Not Let Honda Et Al. Take Over GM?
"Tegger" > wrote in message ... ///clipped nonsense///> > You want to know what's really wrong with the domestics? Here's another > name to consider: Caterpillar. That would be the US construction equipment > company. > > The domestic automakers committed delayed suicide in the '80s when they > caved in to exorbitant unions demands. Frantic to keep the lines running > in > the face of Japanese competition, domestic automaker management said we'll > give you everything you want, just get back to work. And the government > agreed to guarantee those demands. > > Caterpillar alone refused to knuckle under to those very same union > demands > at that very same time. And the union struck. I still remember seeing Cat > workers trudging the picket line month after month after month, as the > months seemed to stretch into years. I still remember wondering if Cat > would even survive as a company. Eventually, the union caved. Not only did > Cat survive, Caterpillar today has legacy costs not any different from any > of its foreign competitors, and remains highly competitive (and > profitable) > in its markets. > > Bad management + bad government = bad mix. Finally!!!! At long last!!!! Someone who understands the problems... Bad management, greedy unions, and bad government.... Add all together and you get a situation like that in which the U.S. auto industry finds itself today. I heard it said that current union wages paid by the U.S. companies is around $78/hour compared to Honda, Toyota etc. (in their U.S. plants) pay around $45/hour to a comparable position. Management has made some horrendously stupid decisions over the past 20 years, and as far as the government involvement - "The scariest words in the English language are ""I'm from the government and I'm here to help""" - Ronald Wilson Reagan..... DaveD > > > -- > Tegger > > The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ > www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
#26
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Why Not Let Honda Et Al. Take Over GM?
"News" > wrote in message t... Guys, Guys Blame me - It was all my fault, now shake hands and go back to your corners for the next debate ;-) |
#27
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Why Not Let Honda Et Al. Take Over GM?
On 12/9/2008 8:05 PM News spake these words of knowledge:
> > Grumpy AuContraire wrote: >> >> >> News wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Elle wrote: >>> >>>> "News" > wrote in message >>>> t... >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Elle wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> "News" > wrote >>>>>> Elle wrote >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>> So you are unaware of the bailout. Wrong thread for you. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And you don't know what you don't know. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Likewise chief. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You got the last part right. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It's all correct, troll. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Be sure to let us know when your deal closes. >>> >>> Better not hold your breath, you ignorant snot. >> >> >> >> Hey, are you one of them thar' robot monkeys walding the unemployment >> pavement? >> >> JT > > > You and your pal the ignorant snot are in way over your heads. It seems so odd to me to read this attitude with proper punctuation. RFT!!! Dave Kelsen 01 Taffeta White Odyssey EX V6 4AT 03 Noble Green Accord LX Sedan I4 5AT 04 San Marino Red Accord EX-Navi Coupe V6 6MT -- Love means never having to say, "Put down that chainsaw." |
#28
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Why Not Let Honda Et Al. Take Over GM?
"Tegger" > wrote
> The domestic automakers committed delayed suicide in the > '80s when they > caved in to exorbitant unions demands. I suppose the alternative to not caving in would be risking going under during the ensuing work stoppage. This might have been too big a risk for shareholders (among others) to stomach. > Frantic to keep the lines running in > the face of Japanese competition, domestic automaker > management said we'll > give you everything you want, just get back to work. And > the government > agreed to guarantee those demands. There is a pension guarantee for all U.S. workers who work for certain corporations. This guarantee is not unique to the auto industry. There is also unemployment insurance, also not unique to the auto industry. I am unaware of any guarantees. These costs (the pension yada guarantee and unemployment insurance) are one reason many could argue a so-called bailout would be cheaper. > Bad management + bad government = bad mix. But I think it is valid to say that putting all these people out of work (not just auto workers but various support industries) may very well drive the U.S. into an economic depression. Everyone will then suffer. To me it makes sense to try to broker a deal with Honda, Toyota et al. so these former Big 3 workers at least have some kind of job. I do not care about their pay cut; I do not think their lower wages would be all that detrimental to the economy as a whole. I do not want government running Honda or Toyota etc. I would expect simply that the gov make an offer to Honda, Toyota etc. Then H, T, etc. can take it or leave it. |
#29
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Why Not Let Honda Et Al. Take Over GM?
On Dec 10, 8:30*am, "Elle" > wrote:
> "Tegger" > wrote > > > The domestic automakers committed delayed suicide in the > > '80s when they > > caved in to exorbitant unions demands. > > I suppose the alternative to not caving in would be risking > going under during the ensuing work stoppage. This might > have been too big a risk for shareholders (among others) to > stomach. > > > Frantic to keep the lines running in > > the face of Japanese competition, domestic automaker > > management said we'll > > give you everything you want, just get back to work. And > > the government > > agreed to guarantee those demands. > > There is a pension guarantee for all U.S. workers who work > for certain corporations. This guarantee is not unique to > the auto industry. There is also unemployment insurance, > also not unique to the auto industry. I am unaware of any > guarantees. Unemployment insurance pays you about 60% of your wages for 26 weeks, UAW job banks are another story. This is the type of thing that has people ****ed off about bailing out the auto industry. http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...A01-351179.htm "Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits. "We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I've just sat." Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers and Delphi Corp. as part of an extraordinary job security agreement with the United Auto Workers union. The jobs bank programs were the price the industry paid in the 1980s to win UAW support for controversial efforts to boost productivity through increased automation and more flexible manufacturing." |
#30
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Why Not Let Honda Et Al. Take Over GM?
"Siskuwihane" > wrote
Unemployment insurance pays you about 60% of your wages for 26 weeks, UAW job banks are another story. This is the type of thing that has people ****ed off about bailing out the auto industry. http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...A01-351179.htm ----- Good post. Of course it is disgusting. So are CEO salaries. But I do not think being "****ed off" does anything to help decide among the remaining logical choices. The union and the corporations made a deal. It is a legal fact that can be undone only in certain ways. I want to deal in facts, not emotion. So I think for one this job bank could be used as a huge negotiating chip. Government says: You want a bailout? Then union, no more job bank. I still would prefer making a sweetened deal with Honda and Toyota et al. The gov could even say, "Detroit's Big 3 are going under. Honda, Toyota, et al.: Market forces say you will have to make up the demand. Here is a loan to build more factories in the U.S." |
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