Bulk vs. Bottled oil at places like Jiffy Lube

If they're such good quality, they should have an ADBV that works. They
don't. You can't convince me that Fram is good quality unless they've
changed significantly in the last ten years or so, because my own
experiences tell me that they are inferior to every other name brand
filter on the market.

nate

Jeff wrote:
> they are good quality. the oil filter i dont like is purolator. i had one of
> their oil filters leave the gasket on my engine when i changed the filter
> and i started the car and saw my brand new oil all over the pavement. it
> wasn't synthetic oil at the time that i was using but it made me have to
> walk to a gas station and pay double what walmart or autozone would charge
> per quart for more oil just so i could drive my car.
>
> -jeff
> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>mred wrote:
>>
>>>On Aug 18, 10:51 pm, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article > ,
>>>>>"Jeff" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>i do it myself and save money. for the price to pay somebody to change
>
> your
>
>>>>>>oil i go to walmart buy a fram oil filter and a 5 quart bottle of
>
> castrol
>
>>>>>>syntec full synthetic oil and change it myself and i know it's done
>
> right.
>
>>>>>I use a 25 year veteran mechanic who has been a Honda guy for that
>
> whole
>
>>>>>time. I sit there and watch while he does it, and we shoot the ****.
>>>>>He's a friend of mine now. He's the only guy I let touch my Hondas.
>>>>
>>>>>I know it's done right, because I watched. And I get many benefits
>
> from
>
>>>>>doing it that way, benefits that are more than paid for by that extra
>>>>>few bucks I pay for labor.
>>>>
>>>>Somehow I missed the post that you replied to, but I feel compelled to
>>>>reply... if you're using Fram filters, you're not doing it right. Fram
>>>>is a triumph of marketing over quality...
>>>>
>>>>nate
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-
>
> Hide quoted text -
>
>>>>- Show quoted text -
>>>
>>>
>>>If I remember correctly ? Fram has gone an ownership change recently
>>>according to other NG`s I read and the quality of their oil filters
>>>has improved dramaticaly according to all reports ?
>>>
>>>Someone cut a Fram filter in half to inspect the internals and found
>>>it has all the same quality ingredients as the more expensive "name "
>>>brands.
>>>
>>>I dont know how true this is but seems where theres smoke theres fire
>>>
>>>
>>
>>It's not recently, it was years ago they got bought out by someone, I
>>forget who. But my comments stem from personal experience, their
>>anti-drainback valves simply don't work, at least on a slant six MoPar
>>application. I've also heard of them blowing apart at the seams on
>>engines who develop higher-than-normal (>100 PSI) oil pressure on a cold
>>start, like VWs, but that part is anecdotal.
>>
>>nate
>>
>>--
>>replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
>>http://members.cox.net/njnagel
>
>
>


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

In fact, Purolator is one of the better brands and if someone forgets to
check for gaskets that stick to the filter mount when changing... Shame
on 'em for not checking since this is a common occurance regardless of
filter mfg..

JT

(Who feels extra grumpy today!)




Nate Nagel wrote:

> If they're such good quality, they should have an ADBV that works. They
> don't. You can't convince me that Fram is good quality unless they've
> changed significantly in the last ten years or so, because my own
> experiences tell me that they are inferior to every other name brand
> filter on the market.
>
> nate
>
> Jeff wrote:
>
>> they are good quality. the oil filter i dont like is purolator. i had
>> one of
>> their oil filters leave the gasket on my engine when i changed the filter
>> and i started the car and saw my brand new oil all over the pavement. it
>> wasn't synthetic oil at the time that i was using but it made me have to
>> walk to a gas station and pay double what walmart or autozone would
>> charge
>> per quart for more oil just so i could drive my car.
>>
>> -jeff
>> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> mred wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Aug 18, 10:51 pm, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article > ,
>>>>>> "Jeff" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> i do it myself and save money. for the price to pay somebody to
>>>>>>> change
>>
>>
>> your
>>
>>>>>>> oil i go to walmart buy a fram oil filter and a 5 quart bottle of
>>
>>
>> castrol
>>
>>>>>>> syntec full synthetic oil and change it myself and i know it's done
>>
>>
>> right.
>>
>>>>>> I use a 25 year veteran mechanic who has been a Honda guy for that
>>
>>
>> whole
>>
>>>>>> time. I sit there and watch while he does it, and we shoot the ****.
>>>>>> He's a friend of mine now. He's the only guy I let touch my Hondas.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I know it's done right, because I watched. And I get many benefits
>>
>>
>> from
>>
>>>>>> doing it that way, benefits that are more than paid for by that extra
>>>>>> few bucks I pay for labor.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Somehow I missed the post that you replied to, but I feel compelled to
>>>>> reply... if you're using Fram filters, you're not doing it right.
>>>>> Fram
>>>>> is a triumph of marketing over quality...
>>>>>
>>>>> nate
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-
>>
>>
>> Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If I remember correctly ? Fram has gone an ownership change recently
>>>> according to other NG`s I read and the quality of their oil filters
>>>> has improved dramaticaly according to all reports ?
>>>>
>>>> Someone cut a Fram filter in half to inspect the internals and found
>>>> it has all the same quality ingredients as the more expensive "name "
>>>> brands.
>>>>
>>>> I dont know how true this is but seems where theres smoke theres fire
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not recently, it was years ago they got bought out by someone, I
>>> forget who. But my comments stem from personal experience, their
>>> anti-drainback valves simply don't work, at least on a slant six MoPar
>>> application. I've also heard of them blowing apart at the seams on
>>> engines who develop higher-than-normal (>100 PSI) oil pressure on a cold
>>> start, like VWs, but that part is anecdotal.
>>>
>>> nate
>>>
>>> --
>>> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
>>> http://members.cox.net/njnagel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

they are good quality. the oil filter i dont like is purolator. i had one of
their oil filters leave the gasket on my engine when i changed the filter
and i started the car and saw my brand new oil all over the pavement. it
wasn't synthetic oil at the time that i was using but it made me have to
walk to a gas station and pay double what walmart or autozone would charge
per quart for more oil just so i could drive my car.

-jeff
"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...
> mred wrote:
> > On Aug 18, 10:51 pm, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> >
> >>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article > ,
> >>> "Jeff" > wrote:
> >>
> >>>>i do it myself and save money. for the price to pay somebody to change
your
> >>>>oil i go to walmart buy a fram oil filter and a 5 quart bottle of
castrol
> >>>>syntec full synthetic oil and change it myself and i know it's done
right.
> >>
> >>>I use a 25 year veteran mechanic who has been a Honda guy for that
whole
> >>>time. I sit there and watch while he does it, and we shoot the ****.
> >>>He's a friend of mine now. He's the only guy I let touch my Hondas.
> >>
> >>>I know it's done right, because I watched. And I get many benefits
from
> >>>doing it that way, benefits that are more than paid for by that extra
> >>>few bucks I pay for labor.
> >>
> >>Somehow I missed the post that you replied to, but I feel compelled to
> >>reply... if you're using Fram filters, you're not doing it right. Fram
> >>is a triumph of marketing over quality...
> >>
> >>nate
> >>
> >>--
> >>replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-
Hide quoted text -
> >>
> >>- Show quoted text -
> >
> >
> > If I remember correctly ? Fram has gone an ownership change recently
> > according to other NG`s I read and the quality of their oil filters
> > has improved dramaticaly according to all reports ?
> >
> > Someone cut a Fram filter in half to inspect the internals and found
> > it has all the same quality ingredients as the more expensive "name "
> > brands.
> >
> > I dont know how true this is but seems where theres smoke theres fire
> >
> >
>
> It's not recently, it was years ago they got bought out by someone, I
> forget who. But my comments stem from personal experience, their
> anti-drainback valves simply don't work, at least on a slant six MoPar
> application. I've also heard of them blowing apart at the seams on
> engines who develop higher-than-normal (>100 PSI) oil pressure on a cold
> start, like VWs, but that part is anecdotal.
>
> nate
>
> --
> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
> http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Jeff wrote:

> they are good quality. the oil filter i dont like is purolator. i had one of
> their oil filters leave the gasket on my engine when i changed the filter
> and i started the car and saw my brand new oil all over the pavement.

Don't blame the filter for operator error! ANY filter can leave a gasket
behind, that's why you should check and clean the gasket surface on the
engine's oil filter mounting flange every time. Purolator and Wix are
probably the best filters on the market, overall.

On Aug 23, 10:09 am, Steve > wrote:

>
> Don't blame the filter for operator error! ANY filter can leave a gasket
> behind, that's why you should check and clean the gasket surface on the
> engine's oil filter mounting flange every time. Purolator and Wix are
> probably the best filters on the market, overall.

That is true.. Can happen with the best of them..
I totally agree with Nate about the fram filters on some six cyl
engines. They are a *proven* disaster waiting to happen. I
even tried one myself to see.. I had to yank it within one day.
Trust me, I don't yank new filters, unless I have a good
reason.. :/
Now, I can see some engines not having a problem with fram
filters. Most of the problems with frams on six bangers are
from the physical position of the filter, and the fast drain it
will do if the valve is a bad design. But many engines don't
mount the filters in that position, and thus probably would
not have the problem.
But...Being I know fram skimps on their anti-drainback valves,
I don't really trust them as far as the other parts of the filter.
So I don't use them at all, just to be on the safe side.
Purolator in general makes very high quality filters.
At least I know they have good anti drain valves.
The motorcraft FL1A that I use on the ford trucks and
have zero problems with may well use a purolator design,
and I've heard some are actually made by purolator.
Supposably WIX filters are pretty good, although I've
never tried one. Those are sold by NAPA, etc..
Myself, I'm not overally picky about filters.. Or at least
I don't buy the high $$$$ versions that offer fine filtration,
etc.. I'm of the opinion that too good a filter is not good
either.. They clog faster in general, and if the bypass
has to kick in.... No bueno..
As far as the seals sticking, it can happen to just about
any of them if the seal gets stuck good enough..
Or at least for the ones that use a "flat" seal surface.
The ones with a sunk "O-ring" type of seal tend to
stick less. But... You should still double check every
time, or verify that the old one is still on the old filter
when you yank it. Myself, I use a dab of oil off the old
seal to lube the new seal. So if I reach over to grab a
touch of oil, and the seal ain't there, I know it's still
on the engine. I've had it happen maybe 2-3 times
in a few hundred oil changes. I once dumped a
couple of quarts on a service bay floor when this
happened at a place I worked at years ago.
Needless to say, I always made sure the seal didn't
stick after that..
Over the years, I've changed the oil in hundreds of
vehicles starting with helping my grandfather do it
at his Texaco station when I was a kid, and then
through 2-3 stations I worked at when younger.
At one local Texaco, I did several a day, every day..
Also all my cars through the years.. I've never
had anyone else change the oil on any of my cars
since I started driving. So I do know a little bit
about changing oil and filters regardless of "local"
opinion to the contrary..
One tip... Never , ever change the oil and filter
on a vehicle and not look for leaks under the
car when through, and cranked up..
I've heard stories of JL's not doing that and having
the car come right back with a dry engine..
I'd strangle anyone that did that to one of my cars.
Maybe that why I always do it myself. I'm just
trying to save the life of some poor JL dude or
dudette.. lol..
MK

I find it interesting... Fram filters now have a Honeywell symbol on them.

Funny because so do my Honda filters.

Granted they could be manufactured differently, but in my experience, the
chances of that is slim to none. unless they are made in a different factory.


The cost of carrying different materials for different quality requirements
on an oil filter I'm thinking would be cost negative.

t

Nate Nagel wrote:
>If they're such good quality, they should have an ADBV that works. They
>don't. You can't convince me that Fram is good quality unless they've
>changed significantly in the last ten years or so, because my own
>experiences tell me that they are inferior to every other name brand
>filter on the market.
>
>nate
>
>> they are good quality. the oil filter i dont like is purolator. i had one of
>> their oil filters leave the gasket on my engine when i changed the filter
>[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
>>>
>>>nate
>

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200708/1

On Aug 23, 12:22 pm, "loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote:
> I find it interesting... Fram filters now have a Honeywell symbol on them.
>
> Funny because so do my Honda filters.

Maybe they will/have improved the product. I don't see how they
got away with the drainback valve problem for so many years.
I'm almost for certain that 100's if not eventually 1000's of people
surely complained about it. This problem applied to many
ford and mopar sixes..
It's like they totally ignored the problem and just thumbed
their noses at the consumers. I'm sure they would have gone
broke by switching to a better valve design or material.. Not...
None of the other low priced filters had the problem.
I can use most any brand, except Fram.. Everyone else
seems to have a decent valve. Or at least, good nuf fer gov work.
So even if they fix the problem, I'd still be wary due to their
past lack of concern.
It's also quite possible nothing has really changed, except for
the collection of three piece suiters in the new home office..
They might be buying from the same sources, and just slapping
a HW paint job on them.
I couldn't say until I actually tested a "new" fram in one of my
trucks. It won't take long to tell if it's changed or not..
I have two old ford trucks, both with sixes.. One a 240, and the
other a 300.. Normally I use nothing but motorcraft FL1A'a..
They are cheap, and a very good filter for that application.
Best bang for the buck any day of the week.
I don't know what the mopar slant six guys prefer... I imagine
nearly anything but a fram is ok if it's like the ford experience.
If I had to go get a filter for my 300, and got to choose between
a fram, and a K-mart brand special, I'd go K-mart after about 20
ms of thought time..
Thats how bad the problem is for the six bangers.. All I gotta
worry about is that the K-mart filter is not a repainted fram,
but most any other cheap design on the planet.
:/
MK

On Aug 18, 12:24 pm, "Jeff" > wrote:
> i do it myself and save money. for the price to pay somebody to change your
> oil i go to walmart buy a fram oil filter and a 5 quart bottle of castrol
> syntec full synthetic oil and change it myself and i know it's done right.
> and my oil stays cleaner longer than those shops that plug up the drain plug
> before everything is even drained out. read your owners manual and get a
> haynes repair manual and go at it.


I've been buying the Castrol 5 quart for a long time but I was in K-
Mart yesterday
and I noticed all the Castrol jugs in there were 4 quart, does Castrol
make both a 4 quart and a 5 quart jug or did they "downsize" the jug
to make more money?

On Aug 15, 5:57 pm, wrote:
> I am on the road often enough where I need to get my oil changed at
> Jiffy Lube or other convenient type of oil change place. Is there any
> quality or performance difference between the bulk oil they use or the
> optional bottled oil (penzoil) that they offer for $10-$15 more?

The real question is whether they say the bulk oil is the same oil as
in the bottles. If they say it's the same oil then I would believe
them. I would not expect that Jiffy Lube or other large chain stores
would be playing bait and switch games with motor oil.


> I have heard many horror stories regarding Jiffy Lube, although I
> guess I am lucky with 220K on my Honda Accord.

Expect that they will do what you asked them to do, which is change
the oil and filter. Just realize that they won't provide that set of
expert eyes to spot potential troubles in other areas.

> Taking my car to the
> dealer just for an oil change on the road seems ridiculous.

And likely to involve a half-day wait or longer if you can get into
the schedule.

> Just
> wondeingr what others look for in an oil-change place to insure
> quality work (those who fear Jiffy Lube) when they can't do it
> themselves.
> Thanks

On Aug 26, 11:40 pm, "Ninja" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ps.com...
>
> > On Aug 23, 10:09 am, Steve > wrote:
>
> > I totally agree with Nate about the fram filters on some six cyl
> > engines. They are a *proven* disaster waiting to happen. I
> > even tried one myself to see.. I had to yank it within one day.
> > Trust me, I don't yank new filters, unless I have a good
> > reason.. :/
>
> I do trust you. My local parts store once had a display with cut-away Fram
> and Wix filters side by side. The Wix must have had five times the surface
> area of filter paper, if not ten.
>
> But I'm curious. . . You decided to yank the filter based on some observable
> symptom? I was it doing?

I can't speak for the previous poster, but in my case I noticed on two
different 60's vintage A-bodies with the 225 slant six that the oil
light would stay on for what I thought was an excessive period of time
after startup - five seconds or so, accompanied by lifter rattling
noises. Changing the filter to a Wix filter reduced that to about a
second or so on both cars.

nate