Driving With Two Brakes

On Apr 4, 4:30 pm, "Neil" > wrote:
> What are the dangers of driving with two brakes? I just found out that when
> my ex-wife took my teenage son's car in to be repaired last week, they said
> there was a leak in the rear wheel cylindar, which was causing brake fluid
> to go onto the brake shoes, causing there to be no rear brakes. She declined
> to have it repaired because of the cost.
>
> How dangerous is it to drive with front brakes only? Seems to me that the
> brakes could lock up or the car could spin or something like that if one has
> to stop suddenly when driving at freeway speeds. Any input is appreciated.
>
> Oh, the car is a VW Golf, about 10 years old.
>
> Thanks!

If you drive slow and supplement the front brakes with transmission
braking, you'll be fine - as long as the front brakes don't spring a
leak too. Big thing is drive slow.

"Speeders & Drunk Drivers are MURDERERS" > wrote in
message
...
> On Apr 4, 4:30 pm, "Neil" > wrote:
> > What are the dangers of driving with two brakes? I just found out that
when
> > my ex-wife took my teenage son's car in to be repaired last week, they
said
> > there was a leak in the rear wheel cylindar, which was causing brake
fluid
> > to go onto the brake shoes, causing there to be no rear brakes. She
declined
> > to have it repaired because of the cost.
> >
> > How dangerous is it to drive with front brakes only? Seems to me that
the
> > brakes could lock up or the car could spin or something like that if one
has
> > to stop suddenly when driving at freeway speeds. Any input is
appreciated.
> >
> > Oh, the car is a VW Golf, about 10 years old.
> >
> > Thanks!
>
> If you drive slow and supplement the front brakes with transmission
> braking, you'll be fine - as long as the front brakes don't spring a
> leak too. Big thing is drive slow.

That is by far the stupidest thing you have EVER said here. I just hope that
you don't live in Texas.

GOn Fri, 4 Apr 2008 17:30:56 -0500, "Neil" > wrote:

>What are the dangers of driving with two brakes? I just found out that when
>my ex-wife took my teenage son's car in to be repaired last week, they said
>there was a leak in the rear wheel cylindar, which was causing brake fluid
>to go onto the brake shoes, causing there to be no rear brakes. She declined
>to have it repaired because of the cost.
>
>How dangerous is it to drive with front brakes only? Seems to me that the
>brakes could lock up or the car could spin or something like that if one has
>to stop suddenly when driving at freeway speeds. Any input is appreciated.
>
>Oh, the car is a VW Golf, about 10 years old.
>
>Thanks!
>

If he's going to keep the car, get it fixed, **ASAP** and keep the car
off the road untill it is repaired. If your ex won't pay for it, pay
for it yourself (ASSuming that your son doesn't have the funds to pay
for the job himself).

IIRC, one of the purposes of dual systems is incase one system fails
while in motion (such as suddenly developing a leak and losing all
fluid on that side) you still have *some* braking available to bring
the car safely to a stop. You say that the rears are not working and
fronts are. Don't wait for the fronts to fail and an accident to
occur. GET IT FIXED!

Oh, and for the love of Allah, pay no mind to what that idiot,
"Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS," said.
--
S&DDAM admits to putting others in danger with its beater:

"Foot pumps are a joke. I had one once and since the piston only moves like
2 inches it took 50 pumps to raise the pressure by one psi. Go with the
hand pumps where the piston moves around 15 inches. One of my tires has
exposed cords and i have to pump it up every week. "

--Speeders & Drunk Drivers Are MURDERERS, 3/6/08
Ref: http://tinyurl.com/yvrmhl
Msg ID:

Neil wrote:

> An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
> son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels.

In most countries worldwide this is what's used for parking not 'emergencies'.


> He brought it in, asking
> them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
> emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
> out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
> little, and another was leaking a lot.)

It needs FIXING !

Graham

Ed Pirrero wrote:

> On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, "Neil" > wrote:
> > An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
> > son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels. He brought it in, asking
> > them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
> > emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
> > out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
> > little, and another was leaking a lot.)
>
> Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
> thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
> contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.
>
> Seems unlikely.

That's exactly what happens. The friction material loses its friction when
saturated with brake fluid. It is an oil of sorts after all !

Graham

Neil wrote:

> I spoke with his mother after speaking to the mechanic and after posting
> here. Apparently, she was unaware that the rear brakes were not working. She
> said, one, the place didn't tell her it was an unsafe situation. And, two,
> she said she thought the emergency brake had a different brake shoe than the
> rear brake. Thus, until I spoke with her, she thought the situation was
> restricted to only the emergency brake, and not the rear brake itself.

Why would you expect the average woman to know how car brakes work ?

Graham

On Apr 5, 1:40 am, Eeyore >
wrote:
> Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, "Neil" > wrote:
> > > An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
> > > son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels. He brought it in, asking
> > > them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
> > > emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
> > > out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
> > > little, and another was leaking a lot.)
>
> > Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
> > thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
> > contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.
>
> > Seems unlikely.
>
> That's exactly what happens. The friction material loses its friction when
> saturated with brake fluid. It is an oil of sorts after all !

You aren't really this dumb, are you?

Even oil-soaked shoes will provide SOME friction.

Enough to hold the car? I have no idea. Best not to test the
condition empirically, methinks.

E.P.

Ed Pirrero wrote:
> On Apr 5, 1:40 am, Eeyore >
> wrote:
>> Ed Pirrero wrote:
>>> On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, "Neil" > wrote:
>>>> An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
>>>> son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels. He brought it in, asking
>>>> them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
>>>> emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
>>>> out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
>>>> little, and another was leaking a lot.)
>>> Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
>>> thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
>>> contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.
>>> Seems unlikely.
>> That's exactly what happens. The friction material loses its friction when
>> saturated with brake fluid. It is an oil of sorts after all !
>
> You aren't really this dumb, are you?
>
> Even oil-soaked shoes will provide SOME friction.
>
> Enough to hold the car? I have no idea. Best not to test the
> condition empirically, methinks.

Considering many parking brakes are marginal to begin with, leaking
brake fluid could easily make them next to useless. I ran my Jeep, which
had a leaking axle seal at the time, through the brake tester at work,
and on that wheel I had half the brake force compared the the other
wheel. I know differential oil has different characteristics, but still...

>
> E.P.
Ulf

> Well, since the failure condition is indicated to the driver via an
> IDIOT LIGHT, there is no need to understand how they work.

Re. idiot light, the complete situation was that the car was leaking brake
fluid. They brought it into the shop and found there was a leak in the brake
line in the front of the car, which they repaired. That stopped the leak and
stopped the light from coming on.

Right now there's no light that's coming on, just some fluid leaking out of
the rear wheel cylinders into the drums. But not enough for the light to go
on.

On Apr 5, 10:13 am, Ulf > wrote:
> Ed Pirrero wrote:
> > On Apr 5, 1:40 am, Eeyore >
> > wrote:
> >> Ed Pirrero wrote:
> >>> On Apr 4, 3:42 pm, "Neil" > wrote:
> >>>> An additional note re. this. The reason this came to light was because my
> >>>> son's emergency brake wasn't holding the wheels. He brought it in, asking
> >>>> them to adjust the emergency brake, and they told him that the reason the
> >>>> emergency brake wasn't working was because of brake fluid that was leaking
> >>>> out of the rear cyclinders. (They said that one cyclinder was leaking a
> >>>> little, and another was leaking a lot.)
> >>> Considering it's a mechanical hand brake mechanism, fluid (or lack
> >>> thereof) isn't going to do anything, unless both rears are so
> >>> contaminated the brake shoes won't hold in the drums.
> >>> Seems unlikely.
> >> That's exactly what happens. The friction material loses its friction when
> >> saturated with brake fluid. It is an oil of sorts after all !
>
> > You aren't really this dumb, are you?
>
> > Even oil-soaked shoes will provide SOME friction.
>
> > Enough to hold the car? I have no idea. Best not to test the
> > condition empirically, methinks.
>
> Considering many parking brakes are marginal to begin with, leaking
> brake fluid could easily make them next to useless. I ran my Jeep, which
> had a leaking axle seal at the time, through the brake tester at work,
> and on that wheel I had half the brake force compared the the other
> wheel. I know differential oil has different characteristics, but still...

Considering the mass of the Golf, and the quality of the handbrake
system, it's not a given that the handbrake won't work.

E.P.