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California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests



 
 
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  #41  
Old September 7th 07, 05:40 AM posted to rec.motorcycles,ca.driving,rec.autos.tech
J. Clarke
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Posts: 247
Default California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests

P. Roehling wrote:
> "BrianNZ" > wrote
>
>> After watching some of my (richer) mates parenting skills it seems
>> common to give the kids whatever they want, then if they 'play up',
>> threaten to take the toys away.

>
> Eh. That's akin to closing the barn door after the horse has run
> off.
>
>> I was more of a "If you want it, you will have to be good and save
>> for it" type of father. Of course, it was still my money, but the
>> boys felt they had earned it and treated the new 'toy' with respect
>> , rather than just another thing that will be replaced.

>
> My mother had a different theory altogether: she had me open a
> savings
> account when I was nine "so you can save up and buy a new bicycle
> when you want one". So I saved up for two years, mowing lawns and
> the like, and finally accumulated enough money to buy the new bike.
>
> But when I went to withdraw the money, I discovered that I had to
> have my mother's signature to take anything back *out* of the bank
> account, and when I asked her for it she told me "You don't need a
> new bike! You should be buying your school clothes with that money!"
>
> I won't claim I didn't learn a lesson from that, but it wasn't the
> one she'd had in mind.


Mine had their own approach. They decided to give me an allowance,
and give me a car, and wanted me to save some out of my allowance.
The trouble is that the cost of gas to get back and forth to school
was more than the allowance. And before you say "ride the bus" they
didn't want me to attend the school to which the bus went.

They meant well, but they didn't really have a clue how to raise a
kid.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)


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  #42  
Old September 7th 07, 06:01 AM posted to rec.motorcycles,ca.driving,rec.autos.tech,ba.motorcycles
Davey Jones
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Posts: 3
Default California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 21:43:11 -0700, David White wrote:
> Also take a look at this one:
>> http://www.goldangels.com/videos/Box/Box.mpg


That's a good rider but to be fair, it's a hell of a lot easier doing a set
of loops without any lines than doing them inside a pre defined set of
lines.

There's not only the physical but the psychological working when you have a
definate set of lines to work within. And when you have an instructor
looming over your shoulder failing you for a single imperfect loop.

Bear in mind though, that the California DMV test is the test a "beginner"
would take in order to get their license - while this rider is probably not
anywhere near a beginner.

In fact, I think, just maybe, based only on my review of this mpeg, and
save for the diameter, this rider would have failed the California DMV
test.

You'll notice this rider, while good, isn't keeping a perfect circle which
the California DMV test requires. On the other hand, his "imperfect" circle
does look tighter than that of the California DMV test, so I should cut him
some slack on his technique.

I'll bet if he had a 13 foot circle painted on the ground, he'd not be able
to do what he just did. Try it some day. You can loop around with abandon
when you get to choose roughly where to go - but it gets infinately harder
if someone else tells you exactly where to go and you have to keep a
perfect circle to do so without straying outside white lines you can't even
see even if you were looking which you should not do.

  #43  
Old September 7th 07, 06:06 AM posted to rec.motorcycles,ca.driving,rec.autos.tech
David Steuber
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Posts: 18
Default California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests

BrianNZ > writes:

> Outback Jon wrote:
>> OK, having just looked at the pictures that were linked to, it
>> really doesn't look that difficult. It looks like it simulates a
>> u-turn on a street. Assuming I'm understanding the way the test
>> works.
>>
>> I bet these guys could do it without problems.
>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...290&pr=goog-sl
>>

>
> Very impressive! I'm glad thats not the test....I wouldn't pass!


I can handle the low speeds. It's getting lost in the sea of cones
that will get me. I'm not as smooth as those guys though. But I can
do a U turn in my driveway or a country lane.

--
Ethics are so annoying
I avoid them on principle
  #44  
Old September 7th 07, 06:07 AM posted to ba.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles,ca.driving,rec.photo.digital,rec.autos.tech
Davey Jones
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Posts: 3
Default California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 16:21:11 -0700, Timberwoof wrote:
>> Hah. They forbid you practicing the test on their course.

> Hah. They don't, after all, based on what others have written.


If I get a chance, I'll snap a pic of the course. They DO have a sign
saying you can't practice under penalty of law.

And they do kick you out if you practice during a weekday as there is
always a security guard at the DMV near me.

But if you post a sentry, you can generally practice on weekends without
too many interuptions as the police don't cruise down that street all that
often on weekends.

Or you can practice after dark on weeknights.

Good luck!
  #45  
Old September 7th 07, 06:11 AM posted to rec.motorcycles,ca.driving,rec.autos.tech,ba.motorcycles
Davey Jones
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Posts: 3
Default California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:06:41 -0400, David Steuber wrote:
> I can handle the low speeds. It's getting lost in the sea of cones
> that will get me. I'm not as smooth as those guys though. But I can
> do a U turn in my driveway or a country lane.


I learned this taking the MSF class. It's a LOT easier to do a u turn (or
any turn) when you get to choose roughly where to go. It's those little
variations that you're allowed to make. The MSF class u turn box, for
example, is way easy because you get to choose your lines for the most
part.

Think how hard it would be if in a u-turn box they painted lines you had to
exactly follow.

The point I wanna make is it's a lot HARDER to make a u turn or circle or
figure 8 or whatever when you have a perfect radius set of lines
constraining your every move and in addition an eagle eyed instructor
grading every movement.

It means nothing to say you can do it. You must consistently do it given
EXACTLY the lines (2'3") to be constrained by without any wavering or
variation thereof whatsoever (as measured by the observer).
  #46  
Old September 7th 07, 06:16 AM posted to ba.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles,ca.driving,rec.photo.digital,rec.autos.tech
David Steuber
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Posts: 18
Default California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests

sqidbait > writes:

> On Sep 6, 1:57 pm, pinbob > wrote:
> [snip]
>> Since the California DMV forbids you practicing the test, you'll need to
>> draw this keyhole diagram on your driveway and then go around the lollipop
>> with a car on each side which is a realistic rendition of what it's like on
>> the DMV course.
>>
>> If anyone has a PHOTOGRAPH of the California course, please POST it!!!!!!

>
> It's easy to practice the test. Just go to your local
> DMV on the weekend and try. Some sample photos I took
> a couple years ago for a similar thread in reeky:
>
> http://home.earthlink.net/~sqidbait/offAxis.jpg
> http://home.earthlink.net/~sqidbait/start.jpg
> http://home.earthlink.net/~sqidbait/loop1.jpg
> http://home.earthlink.net/~sqidbait/loop2.jpg
> http://home.earthlink.net/~sqidbait/back.jpg


That circle is the "infamous" key hole? It's huge! I bet the MSF box
is more difficult.

--
Ethics are so annoying
I avoid them on principle
  #47  
Old September 7th 07, 09:03 AM posted to rec.motorcycles,ca.driving,rec.autos.tech
Ted Mittelstaedt
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Posts: 696
Default California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests


"P. Roehling" > wrote in message
...
>
> "BrianNZ" > wrote
>
> > After watching some of my (richer) mates parenting skills it seems

common
> > to give the kids whatever they want, then if they 'play up', threaten to
> > take the toys away.

>
> Eh. That's akin to closing the barn door after the horse has run off.
>
> > I was more of a "If you want it, you will have to be good and save for

it"
> > type of father. Of course, it was still my money, but the boys felt they
> > had earned it and treated the new 'toy' with respect , rather than just
> > another thing that will be replaced.

>
> My mother had a different theory altogether: she had me open a savings
> account when I was nine "so you can save up and buy a new bicycle when you
> want one". So I saved up for two years, mowing lawns and the like, and
> finally accumulated enough money to buy the new bike.
>
> But when I went to withdraw the money, I discovered that I had to have my
> mother's signature to take anything back *out* of the bank account, and

when
> I asked her for it she told me "You don't need a new bike! You should be
> buying your school clothes with that money!"
>
> I won't claim I didn't learn a lesson from that, but it wasn't the one

she'd
> had in mind.
>


Heh. Actually the problem with the bicycle bit came up with our 9 year
old recently. He wanted a new bike. I took a look at what the average
sale price of what he wanted new was, it was about $59.99. Well back in
1977
when I was his age and wanted roughly the equivalent kind of bike, the
sale price as I recall was about $109.99 since I did in fact save up for it
at that time. You see, back then they still made bicycles in the USA...

Including inflation into the picture it really didn't make any sense at all
to
have him "save up" for what amounted to pocket change in 1977 dollars.

So I said hell with it, bought a used version of what he wanted off
craigslist for $35, gave it to him, and sold his old bike on craigslist for
$20 and figured if I just drove easy on the gas pedal for a week I would
have paid for the delta on the bike prices.

There's plenty of other stuff much more expensive than $15 that he
wants that we play the savings game with than a bicycle.

Ted


  #48  
Old September 7th 07, 09:09 AM posted to ba.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles,ca.driving,rec.photo.digital,rec.autos.tech
sqidbait
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Posts: 5
Default California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests

On Sep 6, 10:16 pm, David Steuber > wrote:
> sqidbait > writes:
> > On Sep 6, 1:57 pm, pinbob > wrote:
> > [snip]
> >> Since the California DMV forbids you practicing the test, you'll need to
> >> draw this keyhole diagram on your driveway and then go around the lollipop
> >> with a car on each side which is a realistic rendition of what it's like on
> >> the DMV course.

>
> >> If anyone has a PHOTOGRAPH of the California course, please POST it!!!!!!

>
> > It's easy to practice the test. Just go to your local
> > DMV on the weekend and try. Some sample photos I took
> > a couple years ago for a similar thread in reeky:

>
> >http://home.earthlink.net/~sqidbait/offAxis.jpg
> >http://home.earthlink.net/~sqidbait/start.jpg
> >http://home.earthlink.net/~sqidbait/loop1.jpg
> >http://home.earthlink.net/~sqidbait/loop2.jpg
> >http://home.earthlink.net/~sqidbait/back.jpg

>
> That circle is the "infamous" key hole? It's huge! I bet the MSF box
> is more difficult.
>


You DON'T understand! It's so DIFFICULT that no
HUMAN BEING could HOPE to ride it, even if they
were on a BICYCLE! Hell, I bet most PEOPLE
wouldn't be able to WALK it! It's all a giant
PLOT between the MSF, the DMV, and HALIBURTON!

Of course - even if you _were_ able to ride
it - CHP would shoot you dead on site[1] since
it's illegal to practice for the test.

-- Michael

[1] Har de har har.


  #49  
Old September 7th 07, 09:17 AM posted to rec.motorcycles,ca.driving,rec.autos.tech,ba.motorcycles
Ted Mittelstaedt
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Posts: 696
Default California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests


"Jim Benson" > wrote in message
. net...
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 22:20:00 -0400, Steve W. wrote:
>
> While everyone's opinion is valid, if you haven't taken this test yourself
> on a liter sized bike, then you really can't know what you're talking
> about.
>
> It's like Norman said ... "Have you ever BEEN in a mine field?"


Fortunately I don't live in CA so don't have to deal with this, not to
mention I took my DMV test 20 years ago in OR.

However, the one thing I find interesting that no one has pointed out
yet is that taking a test like this on a huge heavy bike with a lot of
intertia would be a lot -easier- than on a small lightweight bike.

I routinely have to make very low speed turns on city streets in our
dear city here down in the industrial areas that are full of chuckholes,
partially visible railroad tracks that the asphalt has crumbled away
from, etc. Imagine having to ride a street that has about a 3 inch width
of remaining pavement in between side by side potholes that are at least
8 inches deep, while a big semi driver is behind you, irritated that your
in his way, all the while doging the ass-ends of semis that are projecting
halfway out into the street. There's days that there's so many of them that
the street is literally blocked off and you have to turn and go down
another
block to go around them. And in these industrial areas they have been
docking areas for the last 100 years so not only are the streets
crisscrossed
with old rail lines, but some of them are mixtures of cobblestones with
concrete partially poured over them.

So, I really can't have much sympathy for this test, it sounds like a real
pussified version of what I have to ride through every day. I have to
ask you - does the entire test take place on _FLAT_ pavement? If
so, you have nothing to complain about.

Ted


  #50  
Old September 7th 07, 02:30 PM posted to ba.motorcycles,rec.motorcycles,ca.driving,rec.photo.digital,rec.autos.tech
Jim Smith[_3_]
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Posts: 1
Default California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:16:35 -0400, David Steuber wrote:
> That circle is the "infamous" key hole? It's huge!
> I bet the MSF box is more difficult.


I'm not sure about the dimensions of the MSF box but we know the dimensions
of the circle and the testing criteria (20 feet + one tiny mistake and you
fail).

What are the dimensions & testing criteria of the MSF box?
 




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