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  #1  
Old October 26th 11, 02:24 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
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Posts: 253
Default FFB (new development)

Well, this is what I did.
First I set Damper how I like it (to not feel friction, and to not
feel wheel too thin). This is at 96% on my system.
Then I tested Centering Spring with Spring being 0% (Damper at 96%).
And it turned out that the best Centering Spring is also 96%. So, I would
say that Centering Spring should be the same as Damper. If it is bigger than
Damper, it develops snap-loose condition, if it is smaller it tries to spin
car.
So, it looks like the trick is in setting up Spring. I didn't have
time to do this, but on my system it is somewhere around 120-130%. This I
will set some other day. I'll try with Damper and Centering Spring at 0% to
see how it behaves.
I just went to Lime Rock with Legends, and saw a lot of people
spinning. The difference between Damper and Centering Spring induces those
spins, so I would suggest to make those two the same.

Mario

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  #2  
Old October 26th 11, 12:19 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
GaryR
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Posts: 90
Default FFB (new development)

>On Wed, 26 Oct 2011 03:24:35 +0200, "Mario Petrinovic" > wrote:
> I just went to Lime Rock with Legends, and saw a lot of people
>spinning. The difference between Damper and Centering Spring induces those
>spins, so I would suggest to make those two the same.
>
> Mario


And here I have been thinking a spin is caused by too much speed, bad
use of throttle, or wrong steering inputs!
  #3  
Old October 26th 11, 11:10 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
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Posts: 253
Default FFB (new development)

GaryR:
> >Mario Petrinovic:
>> I just went to Lime Rock with Legends, and saw a lot of people
>>spinning. The difference between Damper and Centering Spring induces those
>>spins, so I would suggest to make those two the same.

>
> And here I have been thinking a spin is caused by too much speed, bad
> use of throttle, or wrong steering inputs!


You can spin like that, or you can spin just turning into a corner
at normal speed, because wrong FFB fools your senses into doing wrong
things.
BTW, I still didn't find time to test (I am too tired now, coming
back from work), but from little test of Spring the previous day, it could
very well be that the right setting for Spring on my system is 128%. If this
is the case, then this would mean that iRacing locked Spring also at 75%,
because 128 x 0.75 = 96. We know that Damper was also locked at 75%, but
iRacing reverted it back to 100%.
This 75% lock only confused things, because with this lock the right
settings for my system should be 128/128/96 (because Centering Spring wasn't
locked at 75%), and this is far from the default 100/100/100. I am looking
forward in a few days to find out if this is so.

Mario

  #4  
Old October 29th 11, 04:42 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default FFB (new development)

Mario Petrinovic:
> GaryR:
>> >Mario Petrinovic:
>>> I just went to Lime Rock with Legends, and saw a lot of people
>>>spinning. The difference between Damper and Centering Spring induces
>>>those
>>>spins, so I would suggest to make those two the same.

>>
>> And here I have been thinking a spin is caused by too much speed, bad
>> use of throttle, or wrong steering inputs!

>
> You can spin like that, or you can spin just turning into a corner
> at normal speed, because wrong FFB fools your senses into doing wrong
> things.
> BTW, I still didn't find time to test (I am too tired now, coming
> back from work), but from little test of Spring the previous day, it could
> very well be that the right setting for Spring on my system is 128%. If
> this is the case, then this would mean that iRacing locked Spring also at
> 75%, because 128 x 0.75 = 96. We know that Damper was also locked at 75%,
> but iRacing reverted it back to 100%.
> This 75% lock only confused things, because with this lock the
> right settings for my system should be 128/128/96 (because Centering
> Spring wasn't locked at 75%), and this is far from the default
> 100/100/100. I am looking forward in a few days to find out if this is so.


Ok, here it is what happened.
It looks like Spring isn't locked at 75%. It looks like, for the
most "realistic" feel Spring and Damper should be both at 100%. Centering
Spring, while it worked well at 96% when Spring and Damper were 0/96, it
doesn't work well at 96% when Spring and Damper are both at 96%. It does
work well though at the setting I determined with Damper and Spring both at
0%, and this is 22% on my system. So, now I am using 100/100/22. I also
matched the Overall with what I like, so now I have 118/100/100/22
(Centering Spring unchecked, and everything else unchecked).
Well, this is it, I tried everything, and I cannot do better than
this. Now I will start to race, I hope it will be "truetful" to me when I
start to work on car setups (which I will not do right now, first a little
bit rookie racing, : )), which is the main reason why I tried to find the
most "true" FFB settings in the first place, so that I can feel the best
what is happening within the car.

Mario

  #5  
Old October 29th 11, 06:28 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default FFB (new development)

Mario Petrinovic:
> Mario Petrinovic:
>> GaryR:
>>> >Mario Petrinovic:
>>>> I just went to Lime Rock with Legends, and saw a lot of people
>>>>spinning. The difference between Damper and Centering Spring induces
>>>>those spins, so I would suggest to make those two the same.
>>>
>>> And here I have been thinking a spin is caused by too much speed, bad
>>> use of throttle, or wrong steering inputs!

>>
>> You can spin like that, or you can spin just turning into a corner
>> at normal speed, because wrong FFB fools your senses into doing wrong
>> things.
>> BTW, I still didn't find time to test (I am too tired now, coming
>> back from work), but from little test of Spring the previous day, it
>> could
>> very well be that the right setting for Spring on my system is 128%. If
>> this is the case, then this would mean that iRacing locked Spring also at
>> 75%, because 128 x 0.75 = 96. We know that Damper was also locked at 75%,
>> but iRacing reverted it back to 100%.
>> This 75% lock only confused things, because with this lock the
>> right settings for my system should be 128/128/96 (because Centering
>> Spring wasn't locked at 75%), and this is far from the default
>> 100/100/100. I am looking forward in a few days to find out if this is
>> so.

>
> Ok, here it is what happened.
> It looks like Spring isn't locked at 75%. It looks like, for the
> most "realistic" feel Spring and Damper should be both at 100%. Centering
> Spring, while it worked well at 96% when Spring and Damper were 0/96, it
> doesn't work well at 96% when Spring and Damper are both at 96%. It does
> work well though at the setting I determined with Damper and Spring both
> at 0%, and this is 22% on my system. So, now I am using 100/100/22. I also
> matched the Overall with what I like, so now I have 118/100/100/22
> (Centering Spring unchecked, and everything else unchecked).
> Well, this is it, I tried everything, and I cannot do better than
> this. Now I will start to race, I hope it will be "truetful" to me when I
> start to work on car setups (which I will not do right now, first a little
> bit rookie racing, : )), which is the main reason why I tried to find the
> most "true" FFB settings in the first place, so that I can feel the best
> what is happening within the car.


Actually, I still have something to do. I'll try different Spring
with 100/22 of Damper and Centering Spring.

Mario

  #6  
Old October 31st 11, 01:51 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default FFB (new development)

Mario Petrinovic:
> Mario Petrinovic:
>> Mario Petrinovic:
>>> GaryR:
>>>> >Mario Petrinovic:
>>>>> I just went to Lime Rock with Legends, and saw a lot of people
>>>>>spinning. The difference between Damper and Centering Spring induces
>>>>>those spins, so I would suggest to make those two the same.
>>>>
>>>> And here I have been thinking a spin is caused by too much speed, bad
>>>> use of throttle, or wrong steering inputs!
>>>
>>> You can spin like that, or you can spin just turning into a
>>> corner
>>> at normal speed, because wrong FFB fools your senses into doing wrong
>>> things.
>>> BTW, I still didn't find time to test (I am too tired now, coming
>>> back from work), but from little test of Spring the previous day, it
>>> could
>>> very well be that the right setting for Spring on my system is 128%. If
>>> this is the case, then this would mean that iRacing locked Spring also
>>> at
>>> 75%, because 128 x 0.75 = 96. We know that Damper was also locked at
>>> 75%, but iRacing reverted it back to 100%.
>>> This 75% lock only confused things, because with this lock the
>>> right settings for my system should be 128/128/96 (because Centering
>>> Spring wasn't locked at 75%), and this is far from the default
>>> 100/100/100. I am looking forward in a few days to find out if this is
>>> so.

>>
>> Ok, here it is what happened.
>> It looks like Spring isn't locked at 75%. It looks like, for the
>> most "realistic" feel Spring and Damper should be both at 100%. Centering
>> Spring, while it worked well at 96% when Spring and Damper were 0/96, it
>> doesn't work well at 96% when Spring and Damper are both at 96%. It does
>> work well though at the setting I determined with Damper and Spring both
>> at 0%, and this is 22% on my system. So, now I am using 100/100/22. I
>> also matched the Overall with what I like, so now I have 118/100/100/22
>> (Centering Spring unchecked, and everything else unchecked).
>> Well, this is it, I tried everything, and I cannot do better than
>> this. Now I will start to race, I hope it will be "truetful" to me when I
>> start to work on car setups (which I will not do right now, first a
>> little
>> bit rookie racing, : )), which is the main reason why I tried to find the
>> most "true" FFB settings in the first place, so that I can feel the best
>> what is happening within the car.

>
> Actually, I still have something to do. I'll try different Spring
> with 100/22 of Damper and Centering Spring.


Ok, I did some testing. It turned out that Spring and Cenetring
Spring should be the same. But, on my system it isn't 22%. I went lower, and
now I am at 14% (it is too late over here, so I have enough for today), but
it probably is 13%.
It looks like Damper doesn't have to be at 100%. For now I am
testing with 100%, but probably I will go back to 96% with it.

Mario

  #7  
Old November 1st 11, 08:25 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default FFB (new development)

Mario Petrinovic:
> Mario Petrinovic:
>> Mario Petrinovic:
>>> Mario Petrinovic:
>>>> GaryR:
>>>>> >Mario Petrinovic:
>>>>>> I just went to Lime Rock with Legends, and saw a lot of people
>>>>>>spinning. The difference between Damper and Centering Spring induces
>>>>>>those spins, so I would suggest to make those two the same.
>>>>>
>>>>> And here I have been thinking a spin is caused by too much speed, bad
>>>>> use of throttle, or wrong steering inputs!
>>>>
>>>> You can spin like that, or you can spin just turning into a
>>>> corner
>>>> at normal speed, because wrong FFB fools your senses into doing wrong
>>>> things.
>>>> BTW, I still didn't find time to test (I am too tired now,
>>>> coming
>>>> back from work), but from little test of Spring the previous day, it
>>>> could
>>>> very well be that the right setting for Spring on my system is 128%. If
>>>> this is the case, then this would mean that iRacing locked Spring also
>>>> at
>>>> 75%, because 128 x 0.75 = 96. We know that Damper was also locked at
>>>> 75%, but iRacing reverted it back to 100%.
>>>> This 75% lock only confused things, because with this lock the
>>>> right settings for my system should be 128/128/96 (because Centering
>>>> Spring wasn't locked at 75%), and this is far from the default
>>>> 100/100/100. I am looking forward in a few days to find out if this is
>>>> so.
>>>
>>> Ok, here it is what happened.
>>> It looks like Spring isn't locked at 75%. It looks like, for the
>>> most "realistic" feel Spring and Damper should be both at 100%.
>>> Centering
>>> Spring, while it worked well at 96% when Spring and Damper were 0/96, it
>>> doesn't work well at 96% when Spring and Damper are both at 96%. It does
>>> work well though at the setting I determined with Damper and Spring both
>>> at 0%, and this is 22% on my system. So, now I am using 100/100/22. I
>>> also matched the Overall with what I like, so now I have 118/100/100/22
>>> (Centering Spring unchecked, and everything else unchecked).
>>> Well, this is it, I tried everything, and I cannot do better than
>>> this. Now I will start to race, I hope it will be "truetful" to me when
>>> I
>>> start to work on car setups (which I will not do right now, first a
>>> little
>>> bit rookie racing, : )), which is the main reason why I tried to find
>>> the
>>> most "true" FFB settings in the first place, so that I can feel the best
>>> what is happening within the car.

>>
>> Actually, I still have something to do. I'll try different Spring
>> with 100/22 of Damper and Centering Spring.

>
> Ok, I did some testing. It turned out that Spring and Cenetring
> Spring should be the same. But, on my system it isn't 22%. I went lower,
> and
> now I am at 14% (it is too late over here, so I have enough for today),
> but it probably is 13%.
> It looks like Damper doesn't have to be at 100%. For now I am
> testing with 100%, but probably I will go back to 96% with it.


Ok, I am abandoning the idea of low Spring setting. I am back with
Spring and Damper at 100%. I tested all the low settings, and Centering
Spring is 15% (on my system) with Spring and Damper at 100%. I'll test
higher numbers as well (for now I tested Centering Spring 0-22%). I am using
Overall at 118%.

Mario

  #8  
Old November 2nd 11, 05:23 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
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Posts: 253
Default FFB (new development)

Mario Petrinovic:
> Ok, I am abandoning the idea of low Spring setting. I am back with
> Spring and Damper at 100%. I tested all the low settings, and Centering
> Spring is 15% (on my system) with Spring and Damper at 100%. I'll test
> higher numbers as well (for now I tested Centering Spring 0-22%). I am
> using Overall at 118%.


Ok, having low Centering Spring is also wrong. It looks like the
tension between Spring (S) and Centering Spring (CS) balances forces
(because of lag, I presume). With Spring and Damper at 100% I have balanced
forces with CS at something like 125% and something like 80%. With 125% CS
is 25% higher than S. With 80% S is 25% higher than CS. I still have a lot
to test (I am a working man, so don't have enough time), but I would really
like to see what effect would be if I replace the CS value with S value.
Also, the difference of Damper and Spring also creates tension, so
locking Damper to 75% dfinitely wasn't a good idea (this only created even
more confusion). Also, some other values create quazi balance (like CS at
15%, which I mentioned in previous post). But at the end it will be CS
either at 125%, or 80% (peobably 125%, but first I must test thoroughly all
combinations, just to be sure what is right).

Mario

  #9  
Old November 7th 11, 12:05 AM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default FFB (new development)

Mario Petrinovic:
> Mario Petrinovic:
>> Ok, I am abandoning the idea of low Spring setting. I am back with
>> Spring and Damper at 100%. I tested all the low settings, and Centering
>> Spring is 15% (on my system) with Spring and Damper at 100%. I'll test
>> higher numbers as well (for now I tested Centering Spring 0-22%). I am
>> using Overall at 118%.

>
> Ok, having low Centering Spring is also wrong. It looks like the
> tension between Spring (S) and Centering Spring (CS) balances forces
> (because of lag, I presume). With Spring and Damper at 100% I have
> balanced
> forces with CS at something like 125% and something like 80%. With 125% CS
> is 25% higher than S. With 80% S is 25% higher than CS. I still have a lot
> to test (I am a working man, so don't have enough time), but I would
> really
> like to see what effect would be if I replace the CS value with S value.
> Also, the difference of Damper and Spring also creates tension, so
> locking Damper to 75% dfinitely wasn't a good idea (this only created even
> more confusion). Also, some other values create quazi balance (like CS at
> 15%, which I mentioned in previous post). But at the end it will be CS
> either at 125%, or 80% (peobably 125%, but first I must test thoroughly
> all combinations, just to be sure what is right).


Ok, it looks very much like Spring and Centering Spring should be
the same. I tested them from 100% to 138%, and it looks like they have to be
even higher on my system (later I will also test how things behave below
100%).
It very much looks like Damper and Overall can be per how pople
like. I like Damper at 96%, and Overall at 118%. I am not yet finished, and
I am looking forward to see how this will end (it WILL end soon, : )).

Mario

  #10  
Old November 7th 11, 02:20 PM posted to rec.autos.simulators
Mario Petrinovic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 253
Default FFB (new development)

Mario Petrinovic:
> Mario Petrinovic:
>> Mario Petrinovic:
>>> Ok, I am abandoning the idea of low Spring setting. I am back
>>> with
>>> Spring and Damper at 100%. I tested all the low settings, and Centering
>>> Spring is 15% (on my system) with Spring and Damper at 100%. I'll test
>>> higher numbers as well (for now I tested Centering Spring 0-22%). I am
>>> using Overall at 118%.

>>
>> Ok, having low Centering Spring is also wrong. It looks like the
>> tension between Spring (S) and Centering Spring (CS) balances forces
>> (because of lag, I presume). With Spring and Damper at 100% I have
>> balanced
>> forces with CS at something like 125% and something like 80%. With 125%
>> CS
>> is 25% higher than S. With 80% S is 25% higher than CS. I still have a
>> lot
>> to test (I am a working man, so don't have enough time), but I would
>> really
>> like to see what effect would be if I replace the CS value with S value.
>> Also, the difference of Damper and Spring also creates tension, so
>> locking Damper to 75% dfinitely wasn't a good idea (this only created
>> even
>> more confusion). Also, some other values create quazi balance (like CS at
>> 15%, which I mentioned in previous post). But at the end it will be CS
>> either at 125%, or 80% (peobably 125%, but first I must test thoroughly
>> all combinations, just to be sure what is right).

>
> Ok, it looks very much like Spring and Centering Spring should be
> the same. I tested them from 100% to 138%, and it looks like they have to
> be
> even higher on my system (later I will also test how things behave below
> 100%).
> It very much looks like Damper and Overall can be per how pople
> like. I like Damper at 96%, and Overall at 118%. I am not yet finished,
> and
> I am looking forward to see how this will end (it WILL end soon, : )).


Hm, it looks like Centering Spring and Spring are locked at 75%. I
am getting fed up with this. Somebody who comes from some other world (other
simulation), comes into iRacing, stays one month, and goes away, seeing that
he isn't compatible with iRacing's world. I mean, there is simply no sense
in all this. In other simulations guy is using one FFB setting, and iRacing
has something completly different. Why? To have "better resolution"?
Resolution of what?

Mario

 




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