A world without GPL?????????

That's what happens when you never win a damn race (and been with the same
woman for 21 years). Grrrrrr....

Mitch


"Michael Sisson" > wrote in message
ers.com...
> In article >,
> says...
>> I'm sleepy.
>>
>>
>> Alanb
>>
>
>
> I'm Sneezy.
>
> EldredP Bashful.
>
> DaveH is Doc.
>
> DaveGF is Dopey.
>
> TonyR is Happy.
>
> Mitch is Grumpy.
>
>
>
>
> BruceK is Snow White. <fluttering of eyelashes>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> MRSisson
> --
> LOAD "GPL",8
>
> SEARCHING FOR GPL
> LOADING
> READY.
> RUN

"Michael Sisson" ...
>> <snip>
> Mitch is Grumpy.

What the.... Mitch isn't nearly as grumpy as me!

Jan.
=---

"Steve Whitty" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Henrie" > wrote in message
> . 97.136...
>> Bruce > wrote in :
>>
>>> LOL!!
>>> Thank you, Mikey.
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>> Michael Sisson wrote:
>>>> In article >,
>>>> says...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> BruceK is Snow White. <fluttering of eyelashes>
>>>
>>
>> Darn, I wanted to be Yoda.
>>
>>
>> dh
> hehe
>
> now we know why you didn't get Yoda.
>
> it should've read :
>
> To be Yoda, I wanted, Darn!
>
>
>
> cheers
>
> steve
>

LOL - I saw the replies and thought "that got 'em talking" only to
realise I'd sent them to sleep!

>With rFactor now the most central part of sim racing..

Because it's the newest?

Hell, what about Simmon's? He is the king of grumps

Hey man, I finally won something dont take that away from me now )


"Jan Verschueren" > wrote in message
...
> "Michael Sisson" ...
>>> <snip>
>> Mitch is Grumpy.
>
> What the.... Mitch isn't nearly as grumpy as me!
>
> Jan.
> =---
>
>

Jan Verschueren wrote:
> "Michael Sisson" ...
>
>>><snip>
>>
>>Mitch is Grumpy.
>
>
> What the.... Mitch isn't nearly as grumpy as me!
>
> Jan.
> =---

Don't get him started Jan!

Happy

"Byron Forbes" wrote...
> With rFactor now the most central part of sim racing,

really?

> it seems to me that one of the hurdles for it to overcome
> is convincing the public of the authenticity of it's "Mods"
> - both the tracks and particularly the cars that will be
> depicted via rFactor but created via 3rd parties. Will it
> be perceived to be amatuerish, fake and even childish?

Why do you doubt a) the ability of the modders and/or the fidelity of their
data/partners in real racing. and, b) the ability of the simracing community
to accurately judge the fidelity of any mod emulating a real life series?
Racing sims gives one a very good idea of what racing is like from the
cockpit. Likewise, media coverage, interviews, biografies, literature and
the hard science of vehicle dynamics provide a mental picture of what to
expect. At its best this synergy produces something special, at its worst it
produces CMR4. You part with your money before reading RAS, you takes your
chances.

> Many claim to have zero interest in "fantasy" tracks for eg.

Yes, luckily some of these people know how to make tracks for rFactor. ;-)

> I guess different modders will end up with different reputations
> with reguard to this as do different companies.

Wrong approach. You keep linking the author to the perceived realism within
the simmer's mind; that's not how it works. A simulation or a
representation
of a venue is perceived as realistic because it is or isn't, not because of
who
made it.

> A company like Papy would obtain licensing and from that
> be able to make all sorts of claims as to the acuracy of tracks
> and physics engines, claiming to have access to all sorts of
> data and working with all sorts of people and race teams -
> impressive stuff. This can have a big psychlogical effect on
> the average simmer with reguard to initial purchase and
> immersion.

Codemasters have had all sorts of licences and have been making all sorts of
claims for the CMR and TOCA series, but fact is they haven't made a half
decent simulation since the first incarnation of either series (and that
just because standards were lower then). Experienced simmers see right
through that sort of thing and if the "average simmer" is smart enough to
read RAS or RSC he will be duly informed about what's crud and what's not.

> So here's the question - if GPL never existed (blasphemy
> - LOL), and some modder for rFactor did a mod based
> on those cars and tracks, and the cars and tracks were
> absolutely identical to those in GPL in every way, how
> would the sim community react?

They'd laugh at the graphics, no doubt. -lol

Trouble is GPL does exist, did move the goalposts for what should be
considered a simulation to another continent and did refine the palet of a
generation of simmers. However, I think the responses since ISI got their
act together (people act as if rFactor has suddenly appeared to contend for
simracing's crown, but apart from the multi and the DX9 graphics F12k1 was
almost just as good), the appraisal RBR received and the following LFS has
managed to gather, show the simmer's bias is not towards a certain brand of
sims, but to sims period.

> Would it be too slippery, hopelessly unrealistic and difficult.

It would be different. rFactor has a vastly superior tyre model and,
contrary to GPL, lift from car bodies is simulated. Crucially, there's also
a couple Belgians involved with making the rFactor mods, so hopefully old
Spa wouldn't contain so many glaring mistakes. <g>

> Or would it go on to become the classic GPL has with
> a widespead cult following?

At the moment that looks unlikely as the multi still contains certain sone
league-unfriendly elements, but over time it could take over as the number
one online game. Certainly in view of no sim developer currently holding a
licence to a major motorsport.

And again that false premise: there is no "cult" GPL following. Ok, so Papy
were a bit lucky to nail the learning curve and the effort/reward balance in
the game the way they did, but even right after its release GPL was
acknowledged to be flawed. It's a mistake to think those who still play GPL
are blind to its faults, but, at the moment, there still isn't a league
vehicle as complete, as stable and as well understood for those who don't
fancy driving stock cars and that's the long and short of it.

Jan.
=---

>"Byron Forbes" > wrote With rFactor now the most
>central part of sim racing



Word of mouth alone is not enough to bring people into the multi rooms,
especially when the only promotion possible is within the very little circle
of the internet. Accept it, the multi-room is very empty. The same thing
that happened to flight-sims a couple of years ago is happening right now in
simracing.


I see absolutely no true momentum for rFactor. I see the same thing for it
that happened to every previous ISI-based sim : 6 months of pleasure,
plenty of possibilities non-fulfilled, then we'll move to something else.


Its like that girlfriend you know is too-good-to-be-true.






--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> It's a mistake to think those who still play GPL
> are blind to its faults, but, at the moment, there still isn't a league
> vehicle as complete, as stable and as well understood for those who don't
> fancy driving stock cars and that's the long and short of it.

Well, I've driven in plenty of GPL leagues and the only area where I see
rFactor lagging behind is possibly results reporting a la GPL replay
analyser but after playing around with the beta of Racecast it should only
be a matter of time before rFactor is up to speed and even as it stands
it's still a very league friendly sim.

The main reason rFactor is so appealing for me is that the really fast
guys drive in a very traditional manner. In GPL, the fast guys drive in
such a weird fashion that I'd dread to think what would happen if they
tried to drive like that in real life. Mind you, it's not as bad as
Crammond's GPX games where I nearly fall off my chair laughing whenever I
look at a world record exploit, ..I mean, lap...but still...

Steve Simpson wrote:

> The main reason rFactor is so appealing for me is that the really fast
> guys drive in a very traditional manner. In GPL, the fast guys drive in
> such a weird fashion that I'd dread to think what would happen if they
> tried to drive like that in real life.

The really fast guys in GPL don't drive anything like most people think
the really fast guys in GPL drive. For some reason there's this
misconception that it's fast in GPL to hang the ass out everywhere and
abuse the car, when the really fast guys keep the car going forward
with a minimum of sliding.