Yaris, Scion xD, Honda Fit - no water temp gauge

Steve wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article >,
>> Steve > wrote:
>>
>>> The "my car is a toaster" crowd that made the Camry the best stilling
>>> POS in the world is ruining the driving experience for the rest of us
>>> more and more every day.
>>
>> Hardly. There's a car, actually a plethora of them, for every taste.
>>
>> At any rate, now we know what your ACTUAL complaint is. You can't
>> find a car to suit your particular tastes.
>>
>> Ain't that a bitch.
>>
>
> Again, its not MY problem, I'm just commenting on it as a symptom of how
> ignorant of how a car works the average driver has become.

like the ignorant average driver that thinks the "temp gauge" in his car
is actually telling him anything other than "normal" and "too hot"?


>
> Besides I have 5 cars that suit my taste beautifully, and there are
> plenty of others I'd love to have (a Challenger SRT-8 tops the list, but
> that aint gonna happen unless I were to sell the '69 R/T convertible and
> that's not bloody likely)

On Apr 17, 10:33*pm, ray > wrote:

> <brag>
> My 2001 Trans Am has gauges. *And a "check gauges" idiot light.
> And they appear to either be real gauges or very convincing software
> "clones" - oil pressure starts high at a cold start, varies with RPM and
> is lower at idle when the engine is warm. *It even registers a bit
> higher when I run 10W30 in it vs 5W30.
> </brag>
>
> Of course, it didn't come with a shift light.

An interesting note to the "Godsend" GM shift light is that it was
operated by the same circuit (and then slightly modified by vehicle
speed rationality logic) as the torque converter lock up circuit used
on automatic trans models. Sure miss *that* feature :-)

Toyota MDT in MO

Comboverfish wrote:
> On Apr 17, 10:33 pm, ray > wrote:
>
>> <brag>
>> My 2001 Trans Am has gauges. And a "check gauges" idiot light.
>> And they appear to either be real gauges or very convincing software
>> "clones" - oil pressure starts high at a cold start, varies with RPM and
>> is lower at idle when the engine is warm. It even registers a bit
>> higher when I run 10W30 in it vs 5W30.
>> </brag>
>>
>> Of course, it didn't come with a shift light.
>
> An interesting note to the "Godsend" GM shift light is that it was
> operated by the same circuit (and then slightly modified by vehicle
> speed rationality logic) as the torque converter lock up circuit used
> on automatic trans models. Sure miss *that* feature :-)
>
> Toyota MDT in MO

I forgot about that "shift light" - my truck has one... the upshift to
save gas nag light. On my old Jimmy I just took the bulb out. On my
current truck, where I like the steering wheel it just blocks it.

Ray

On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:06:33 -0700, Comboverfish wrote:

> On Apr 17, 10:33*pm, ray > wrote:
>
>> <brag>
>> My 2001 Trans Am has gauges. *And a "check gauges" idiot light. And
>> they appear to either be real gauges or very convincing software
>> "clones" - oil pressure starts high at a cold start, varies with RPM and
>> is lower at idle when the engine is warm. *It even registers a bit
>> higher when I run 10W30 in it vs 5W30. </brag>
>>
>> Of course, it didn't come with a shift light.
>
> An interesting note to the "Godsend" GM shift light is that it was
> operated by the same circuit (and then slightly modified by vehicle speed
> rationality logic) as the torque converter lock up circuit used on
> automatic trans models. Sure miss *that* feature :-)
>
> Toyota MDT in MO


Comboverfish!

Stop hanging around in r.a.t (hey, how about that!) and come back to us!!!

As for those lights, I had one in a Jetta, and got WORSE fuel economy
using it!

"Hachiroku" > wrote in message
news:NxxOj.147$Y81.83@trndny09...
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:06:33 -0700, Comboverfish wrote:
>
>> On Apr 17, 10:33 pm, ray > wrote:
>>
>>> <brag>
>>> My 2001 Trans Am has gauges. And a "check gauges" idiot light. And
>>> they appear to either be real gauges or very convincing software
>>> "clones" - oil pressure starts high at a cold start, varies with RPM and
>>> is lower at idle when the engine is warm. It even registers a bit
>>> higher when I run 10W30 in it vs 5W30. </brag>
>>>
>>> Of course, it didn't come with a shift light.
>>
>> An interesting note to the "Godsend" GM shift light is that it was
>> operated by the same circuit (and then slightly modified by vehicle speed
>> rationality logic) as the torque converter lock up circuit used on
>> automatic trans models. Sure miss *that* feature :-)
>>
>> Toyota MDT in MO
>
> Comboverfish!
>
> Stop hanging around in r.a.t (hey, how about that!) and come back to us!!!
>
> As for those lights, I had one in a Jetta, and got WORSE fuel economy
> using it!
>
>
I've got one in my Jeep. I set my steering wheel height so that I just do
not see it at all.
Tomes

Hachiroku wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:06:33 -0700, Comboverfish wrote:
>
>
>>On Apr 17, 10:33 pm, ray > wrote:
>>
>>
>>><brag>
>>>My 2001 Trans Am has gauges. And a "check gauges" idiot light. And
>>>they appear to either be real gauges or very convincing software
>>>"clones" - oil pressure starts high at a cold start, varies with RPM and
>>>is lower at idle when the engine is warm. It even registers a bit
>>>higher when I run 10W30 in it vs 5W30. </brag>
>>>
>>>Of course, it didn't come with a shift light.
>>
>>An interesting note to the "Godsend" GM shift light is that it was
>>operated by the same circuit (and then slightly modified by vehicle speed
>>rationality logic) as the torque converter lock up circuit used on
>>automatic trans models. Sure miss *that* feature :-)
>>
>>Toyota MDT in MO
>
>
>
> Comboverfish!
>
> Stop hanging around in r.a.t (hey, how about that!) and come back to us!!!
>
> As for those lights, I had one in a Jetta, and got WORSE fuel economy
> using it!
>
>



Hell... My ol' '83 Civic FE has a shift light that is controlled by
tach speeds. I find it to be generally annoying..

JT

>>>
>>> Of course, it didn't come with a shift light.
>>>
>>> Ray
>>
>> Anyone who actually uses a shift light should stick to driving
>> automatics.... ;-)
>>
>
> The purpose of the shift light is for drag racing. When the nitrous
> kicks in, it's important that I don't hit the factory rev limiter.


Oh, you mean a REAL shift light that is clearly visible without looking
down, looks like an old flashlight, has a cover for when you're not
racing... not the dumb little up-arrow on the dashboard that comes on
whenever Toyota thinks you should be using less fuel.


>
> And anyone who makes a comment about shift lights and automatics
> probably doesn't (a) bracket race or (b) have 400+ hp on tap.

OR just didn't understand the kind of light you meant.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article >,
> Steve > wrote:
>
>>> At any rate, now we know what your ACTUAL complaint is. You can't find
>>> a car to suit your particular tastes.
>>>
>>> Ain't that a bitch.
>>>
>> Again, its not MY problem, I'm just commenting on it as a symptom of how
>> ignorant of how a car works the average driver has become.
>
> No, it's a symptom of how appliance-like the cars have become--which
> depends on, and also feeds, the fact that auto transportation has become
> a necessity--not a hobby, not a luxury.

Really? The media keep telling us just how unnecessary it is. Live in a
high-rise. Take the bus. Ride a bike. Its the new urbanism. </sacrcasm>
>
> When the Model T came out, you had to know everything about the car and
> be your own mechanic. Of course, that was OK back then. Now imagine
> the Model T being the primary source of transportation today.
>
> Face it: technology starts out in the labs, then hits the early
> adopters, then eventually becomes mainstream--and appliance-like.

Cars were already appliance-like in 1940, but they still had real
instrumentation. And appliances can be either versatile equipment with a
good operator interface, or cheap crap from Target too.

I
> don't have to know how a computer works just to be able to take and send
> pictures on my cell phone.

But it damn sure helps if you have a clue. It lets you do more, do it
better, and be more productive than the appliance-user. And knowledge
prevents you from being dependent on a sysadmin somewhere.
>
> You don't like that technology becomes an appliance. Tough ****.
> That's how life works.
>

Fortunately there are still plenty of cars for people who ENJOY cars
out there.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article >,
> Steve > wrote:
>
>>> Ah, so it CAN leak. Wouldn't you want to know if that happened?
>> The probability of a rock flying into the condesor coils underneath my
>> fridge and causing a leak is astronomically low.
>
> True. But the probability of your $900 fridge being a cheap piece of
> Chinese junk and leaking coolant and ruining the food in your fridge is
> MUCH greater today than it ever has been.
>
> Hence, it would be prudent to protect your food investment, if nothing
> else, by using such a gauge.
>

Its more important to buy a good fridge, not a piece of crap from made
in China. All it takes is a little awareness on the buyer's part. And
the ability to read the data plate... but maybe literacy IS too much to
ask these days.

jim beam wrote:

> no dude, it's the other way around. the engineers doctor the gauge so
> it only tells you two things - normal and too hot, and only one of those
> is important.

That's simply not true. The HISTORY of the situation is that engineers
installed gauges for years. Then came idiot lights because designers and
stylists liked the "modern, all-electric" look of the dashboards they
could create. Then gauges made a comeback. THEN, the automakers started
getting complaints from people who'd grown up on idiot lights, and
didn't understand normal behavior, most particularly of the oil pressure.

THAT is when the "dummy" gauges that read mid-scale or nothing at all
appeared.

> left to their own devices, they'd leave the waste of
> space out.

Engineers NEVER leave instrumentation out of ANYTHING if left to their
own devices. Left to their own devices they'd install an oil pressure
gauge before the filter, one after, and one at the last feed off the oil
galley. You'd have a water temp gauge before and after the radiator, a
transmission oil temperature gauge before and after the cooler, and 8
individual exhaust gas temperature probes.


>it's the marketing lizards that insist on a gauge because
> people like you think they need one and get all amped up about a subject
> they haven't bothered to analyze or don't understand. even when given
> the facts.

He says, as if he'd know a fact if it jumped up and bit his ass....