HELP: 93 Toyota Corolla vibration problem!

On Apr 17, 9:33*am, wrote:
> NEW SYMPTOMS:
>
> I had the tires changed out for brand new Yokoham Avid TRZ. *they were
> under warranty so it didn't cost me anything. *However, the vibration
> still persisted. *The new additional symptoms are as follows:
>
> 1. when the vibration occurs, you can get out of the car and feel the
> temperature of the steel wheels. *The Passenger Front wheel is hot to
> the touch and will burn you. *the rest are cool to the touch.
>
> 2. the brake pedal has less travel and feels stiffer.
>
> 3. more gas pedal effort and reduced gas mileage during periods of
> vibration.
>
> 4. this problem will start randomly and is not dependent on if you are
> using the brakes. *I was on the highway at 1AM and didn't use the
> brakes for 30 miles and it still started.
>
> Now here is what I think, although i'm not a mechanic... I think it
> has something to do with the front passenger-side caliper. *It may be
> locking up somehow. *But i noticed on local roads before the vibration
> starts, if the pedal is stiff, pump it a few times and it goes away...
> ie the brakes unlock. *The weird thing is I put brand new calipers in
> there 3k miles ago.... could one be defective?

Don't discount the possibility that the right side drive axle is
binding once it has been in motion for some time. The most likely
cause of brake-off, power/coast vibration on a car such as this is a
bad inner joint on the longer CV axle. Your car's longer CV axle
happens to be on the right side. There are too many possibilities to
list so I'm just mentioning something that it could *likely* be. Even
the outboard joint on the right side could be binding intermittently
and causing the higher right wheel temp. Proper diagnosis from a
competent mechanic charging fair prices would be your best course of
action.

Toyota MDT in MO

"N8N" > wrote in message
...

> You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car.
> Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free.
> Especially the store where you bought the tires.- Hide quoted text -

< I'd say it's VERY likely a hose or caliper based on the symptoms
< posted. Sounds like dragging pads which have caused the rotor to
< warp. So probably he will end up with a new hose, caliper, and rotor
< before the problem is solved. I say caliper because even if the hose
< is the cause of the problem the seals in the caliper may have been
< toasted by the heat and I would replace all three just to be certain
< that I've got the problem and won't end up with another one shortly.

It can seem the pads are bad when in fact the rotor is not running true.
Rotors on the Corolla generally warp because they have been turned at least
one time too many. You can't just replace one side. IF it turns out that is
the culprit - calipers and rotor - he'll need to do both sides. That gets
expensive. You are looking at maybe a $300 - $600 job. Given that the steel
wheels on the Toyotas are a bit thin to start with, and tend to go egg
shaped just with normal use (pot holes) you might consider that 15 year old
wheels may be just a little egg shaped. It may be that simple. Start with
the cheap stuff first. Since he just got new tires - a dynamic balance
(spin) seems a good place to start, most tire stores will check it for FREE.
If the wheel is true, then you can look at the rotor. IF that's it it is
going to stick out like a sore thumb. The rotor will be blue as hell.
Somebody MAY have put new pads on without turning the rotor. So the pad will
also look like dog meat. This stuff is hard to miss.

I don't know where the guy got his new tires. It seems to me that it
would be unlikely that any tire store would miss bunged up rotors etc. Every
mechanic is a salesman. They are paid to notice that stuff and pass it up
the food chain to sell a brake job. Now, many tire stores get VERY sloppy on
wheel balances, they often miss our of round wheels especially on 15 year
old cars. But the problem may be more subtle - something a "tire mounter"
would miss. That says to me a failed SUSPENSION part. OR a CV joint. You
need a REAL mechanic to see that. In 99% of tire stores the guys who mount
new tires are at the bottom of the food chain, often high school kids who
are taught only how to bust and mount tires and maybe do a static balance.
(Little bubble machine.) These grunts work on volume getting tin (cars) in
and out as fast as they can. They usually can't spot problems that don't
yell at them like a blue rotor or hanging pad. They look at only the big
stuff they can see. The REAL mechanics are busy on high dollar profitable
work, brake jobs, front ends and the like given the limits of the shop's
scope of work. Maybe en exhaust system job.

The hose on the Toyotas are one of the more robust parts on the car. I'd
just not start at the least likely. You are right about the brakes, but
generally those tend to share the problem from side to side. It's easy to
spot for a car owner with 20/20 vision. Look at the rotor. Is it gouged or
dark blue. If so, you have an expensive brake problem. If not, look at those
wheels and wheel bearings. The Corollas tend to use up bearings if they are
not repacked at least once a year. Same for the Nissans. Since the Corolla
is FWD, the CV joint may be shot. Those tend to wear unevenly from side to
side and the right joint tends to fail first in most FWD cars. Again it is a
job that when you replace one side, do BOTH because you'll be back in weeks
to do the left side anyway.

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
...

>> Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty
>> far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I
>> would look for the most likely things first. You MAY wind up with a bad
>> brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first. Besides you can't really tell
>> about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously
>> collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just
>> unlikely.

>> You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the
>> car. Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free.
>> Especially the store where you bought the tires.

> I already suggested, and the OP checked, most of the stuff you listed.
> Most tire shops around here use dynamic balancers, and some even have
> Hunter's new Road Force dynamic balancer.

If the wheels were run on a dynamic balance then I'd look at the CV
joint.

> The problem I've seen on some old brake hoses is not hardening, but a
> deterioration of the lining. The lining flakes off and blocks the line so
> when the pedal is released, residual pressure keeps the caliper piston
> from releasing.

Well on the Toyota the brake hoses tend to be on the robust side. Not
unusual to last 20 years with no problems. IF the caliper is hanging the
rotor will be blued. That should stand out to ANY tire mounter. Since you
suggest that the wheels WERE balanced and are NOT out of round in either
axis, then not knowing all that was or wasn't checked, I'd suspect a CV
joint. THOSE on the Corollas tend to crap out sometime after 10 years. Much
better than American cars.

Here is what strikes me. He just got 4 new tires. It is hitting only ONE
side of the car. (Right front). It was something that a worker hot to MAKE
sales would likely not see. Suggest that obvious BRAKE things hanging pads
and blued rotors weren't present. So it is a process of elimination. If I
assume even marginal competence of the tire store folks - something they'd
NOT necessarily pick up on would be a suspension part or CV joint.

"Mark" > wrote in message
...
> I'd say it's VERY likely a hose or caliper based on the symptoms
> posted. Sounds like dragging pads which have caused the rotor to
> warp. So probably he will end up with a new hose, caliper, and rotor
> before the problem is solved. I say caliper because even if the hose
> is the cause of the problem the seals in the caliper may have been
> toasted by the heat and I would replace all three just to be certain
> that I've got the problem and won't end up with another one shortly.
>
> nate- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

< I agree, I had this happen, if the brakes drag, after driving on the
< highway, the rotor will overheat and warp and cause a vibration due to
< the brakes dragging on a warped rotor..


And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys in
the tire store would likely miss that?

"Comboverfish" > wrote in message
...
On Apr 18, 2:48 am, " krp" > wrote:


> > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
> > brakes.

> That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance."
> system.

< Which region(s) are you basing this data on? Static balancing would
< yield a satisfactory result for most people most of the time, but what
< reputable shop relies on this method anymore?

Static balance only examine ONE exis of wheel balance and trueness.
Granted most GOOD shops use dynamic balance today. Ever been in a Wal-Mart
tire shop? K-Mart?

> Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old.
> Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest.

< What exactly is wrong with 93 Corolla wheels? Do you even know what
< their dimensions are? How many lugs and what's their spacing? What
< changed about this in 1998?

The standard steel wheel on the Corolla is not the most robust. Which
dimension are you talking about? The 15" rims with a 5 bolt pattern? Or do
you want to talk about the thickness of the steel in the wheel itself? If
so, at what point in the wheel? You know the bead is pretty thick, but the
center section of the wheel where it is welded to the base is pretty thin.
You know, I've never taken a mic to measure the spacing of the lig holes.
I'll have to get back to you on that. Also not being a Toyota expert in that
precise a manner, I'd probably never have seen the change from a 4 bolt
pattern to the 5 bolt pattern.

> The wheel needs a dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true it
> is running. On the
> older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels to become bent.

< Yes, newer cars avoid this entirely.

No but wheel construction has been changed with more cars usily alloy
wheels today.

> I'd start there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel
> bearings.

< I'm curious, what specific problems were the "90's Corolla wheel
< bearings" famous for? Would this include, say, a 1999 Corolla?

The problems were in going SQUARE of not inspected and repacked every
20,000 miles or so.

> We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels,

< Why assume something (that is groin-poundingly obvious anyway)?
< Really? "Disc brakes" on the front of a 90's rice burner? Wow, what
< will they think of next?!

Round tires. Smart ass.

> A close inspection of the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing how
> many miles are on the
> car (generally we can assume over 100,000)

< Of course you can; you prophesied that his car has disc brakes! Who
< would doubt your clairvoyance?

Look clown - I know people with a 1989 Toyota with 40,000 miles on them.
I also know some folks with 200,000 miles on a 2006 Corolla.

> at this age as a minimum - you have all sorts of culprits along the way as
> possibles. Maybe even
> combinations. That's without getting to any suspension parts. Look at the
> most likely first.

> 1. Bent wheel.
> 2. Bad wheel balance.
> 3. Bad bearing.
> 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle.
> 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on the corolla)
>
> The brake son the Corolla CAN be bad, but have been one of the more
> reliable things about Toyota. The only question here is how many times the
> rotors were turned and how accurately. MANY brake shops are butchers. The
> cut rate places often have poorly trained KIDS doing the job. Nobody
> should
> be surprised when they screw up. If too much is taken off a rotor when it
> is
> turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK rotor
> heats
> up it tends to go our of round.

< After a shotgun rotor replacement the problem still exists.Hmmmmmmmmm...

I was speaking of TURNING the rotor. There are only so many times you
can shave a rotor on the best of cars. Also lots depends on the mechanic,
they can shave too much off. And that isn't uncommon.

> Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty
> far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I
> would look for the most likely things first.

< Only one side wheel seems to be getting hotter that the rest. That
< doesn't mean the source of the vibration has been isolated to one
< side.

Yeah - and IF the problem is ONLY brake related (hanging calipers) don't
you think the rotor on that side would likely be a pretty shade of dark
blue? AT least if not ridged?

> You MAY wind up with a bad brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first.
> Besides you can't really tell
> about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously
> collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just
> unlikely.

< Let's copmpletely discount it then.

I didn't say that, did I, smartass? I merely said START with the MOST
LIKELY - then those things have been eliminated you progress. HOWEVER - in
this case IF it is brakes - most likely it will show. What I have seen on 15
year old cars is repairs done often on the cheap. Rotors turned when they
shouldn't have been. Calipers kept on when they should have been replaced.
One too many back yard repairs by owners. Usually young and inexperienced.
Again the KEY here is whether or not the tires were mounted in an ACTUAL
garage or the back yard. IF this were the brakes as dogmaticly suggested
here, IF the problem is a hanging caliper or a bad brake hose, then it would
have been hard to miss. IF the caliper is hanging with pressure not
releasing, then the pads will be making constant contact with the rotors.
BLUE AS HELL eventually. If it is that the brake hose on the right has
collapsed or closed (hardening of the artery) than you sure as hell will
tell it driving the car, and I don't mean a shaking. Don't you think if you
have ONE SIDE where it is working okay and the other side isn't that when
you hit the brakes it would tend to PULL just a little bit? Maybe
violently?? That's not what I read so far.

> You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car.
> Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free.

< You have a vast knowledge of what *most* shops will do.

Look JACKASS - I worked for both Firestone AND Goodyear. I also owned my
own parts store. Am I a mechanic? NO! But I know a LITTLE about cars.Enough
to have raced in USAC and SCCA.

> Especially the store where you bought the tires.

< All above advice noted, now direct the OP to a competent mechanic.

There are some things the owner can see. Like a BRIGHT DARK BLUE ROTOR.
Don't you think a suspensioin part or CV joint is worth of consideration?

"Comboverfish" > wrote in message
...

Don't discount the possibility that the right side drive axle is
binding once it has been in motion for some time. The most likely
cause of brake-off, power/coast vibration on a car such as this is a
bad inner joint on the longer CV axle. Your car's longer CV axle
happens to be on the right side. There are too many possibilities to
list so I'm just mentioning something that it could *likely* be. Even
the outboard joint on the right side could be binding intermittently
and causing the higher right wheel temp. Proper diagnosis from a
competent mechanic charging fair prices would be your best course of
action.
===========

BINGO.

On Apr 19, 7:52 am, " krp" > wrote:
> "Mark" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > I'd say it's VERY likely a hose or caliper based on the symptoms
> > posted. Sounds like dragging pads which have caused the rotor to
> > warp. So probably he will end up with a new hose, caliper, and rotor
> > before the problem is solved. I say caliper because even if the hose
> > is the cause of the problem the seals in the caliper may have been
> > toasted by the heat and I would replace all three just to be certain
> > that I've got the problem and won't end up with another one shortly.
>
> > nate- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> < I agree, I had this happen, if the brakes drag, after driving on the
> < highway, the rotor will overheat and warp and cause a vibration due to
> < the brakes dragging on a warped rotor..
>
> And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys in
> the tire store would likely miss that?

I think they did. How else to you explain the one wheel being hot to
the touch but not the others? My money is still on a brake issue.

nate

"N8N" > wrote in message
...

>> > I'd say it's VERY likely a hose or caliper based on the symptoms
>> > posted. Sounds like dragging pads which have caused the rotor to
>> > warp. So probably he will end up with a new hose, caliper, and rotor
>> > before the problem is solved. I say caliper because even if the hose
>> > is the cause of the problem the seals in the caliper may have been
>> > toasted by the heat and I would replace all three just to be certain
>> > that I've got the problem and won't end up with another one shortly.
>>
>> > nate- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> < I agree, I had this happen, if the brakes drag, after driving on the
>> < highway, the rotor will overheat and warp and cause a vibration due to
>> < the brakes dragging on a warped rotor..
>>
>> And so the rotor will be a pretty MIDNIGHT BLUE. Do you think the guys
>> in
>> the tire store would likely miss that?

> I think they did. How else to you explain the one wheel being hot to
> the touch but not the others? My money is still on a brake issue.

If THEY missed it how about you? Is it blue or not?

Let's take the brakes. You'll need to mic the rotor see if it is within
tolerance (thickness) that break open the caliper and look at the pads. I
never said you were "wrong" on this - just that I'd look other places first.
Like the CV joint. If there is a problem you'll see it when you remove the
caliper and look at the pads. It IS possible that it needs a cleaning of the
pistons and gaskets. (O -rings) I have seen a great many brake jobs really
done half-assed. Or on the cheap. BAD IDEA.

I don't know if you have owned this car for a long time or not. One
CORNERS CUT brake job is all it takes. Then you are looking at the
potential to replace both front rotors and calipers plus pads. The good
thing is that good parts should be easy to find in a bone yard. Good rotors
and calipers. Thing is they are common as dirt. It may be brakes. I'd not
bet on the hose, but it is a cheap fix if it is.

" krp" > wrote in message
news:0olOj.203$pn4.186@trnddc03...
>
> "Comboverfish" > wrote in message
> ...
> On Apr 18, 2:48 am, " krp" > wrote:
>
>
>> > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
>> > brakes.
>
>> That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance."
>> system.
>
> < Which region(s) are you basing this data on? Static balancing would
> < yield a satisfactory result for most people most of the time, but what
> < reputable shop relies on this method anymore?
>
> Static balance only examine ONE exis of wheel balance and trueness.
> Granted most GOOD shops use dynamic balance today. Ever been in a Wal-Mart
> tire shop? K-Mart?

The Wal-Mart and K-Mart shops here in the Midwest all use dynamic balancers.

>
>> Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old.
>> Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest.
>
> < What exactly is wrong with 93 Corolla wheels? Do you even know what
> < their dimensions are? How many lugs and what's their spacing? What
> < changed about this in 1998?
>
> The standard steel wheel on the Corolla is not the most robust. Which
> dimension are you talking about? The 15" rims with a 5 bolt pattern? Or do
> you want to talk about the thickness of the steel in the wheel itself? If
> so, at what point in the wheel? You know the bead is pretty thick, but the
> center section of the wheel where it is welded to the base is pretty thin.
> You know, I've never taken a mic to measure the spacing of the lig holes.
> I'll have to get back to you on that. Also not being a Toyota expert in
> that precise a manner, I'd probably never have seen the change from a 4
> bolt pattern to the 5 bolt pattern.
>
>> The wheel needs a dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true it
>> is running. On the
>> older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels to become bent.
>
> < Yes, newer cars avoid this entirely.
>
> No but wheel construction has been changed with more cars usily alloy
> wheels today.
>
>> I'd start there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel
>> bearings.
>
> < I'm curious, what specific problems were the "90's Corolla wheel
> < bearings" famous for? Would this include, say, a 1999 Corolla?
>
> The problems were in going SQUARE of not inspected and repacked every
> 20,000 miles or so.

The wheel bearings on the OP's Corolla are sealed and are not repack-able.

>
>> We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels,
>
> < Why assume something (that is groin-poundingly obvious anyway)?
> < Really? "Disc brakes" on the front of a 90's rice burner? Wow, what
> < will they think of next?!
>
> Round tires. Smart ass.
>
>> A close inspection of the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing how
>> many miles are on the
>> car (generally we can assume over 100,000)
>
> < Of course you can; you prophesied that his car has disc brakes! Who
> < would doubt your clairvoyance?
>
> Look clown - I know people with a 1989 Toyota with 40,000 miles on
> them. I also know some folks with 200,000 miles on a 2006 Corolla.
>
>> at this age as a minimum - you have all sorts of culprits along the way
>> as possibles. Maybe even
>> combinations. That's without getting to any suspension parts. Look at the
>> most likely first.
>
>> 1. Bent wheel.
>> 2. Bad wheel balance.
>> 3. Bad bearing.
>> 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle.
>> 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on the
>> corolla)
>>
>> The brake son the Corolla CAN be bad, but have been one of the more
>> reliable things about Toyota. The only question here is how many times
>> the
>> rotors were turned and how accurately. MANY brake shops are butchers. The
>> cut rate places often have poorly trained KIDS doing the job. Nobody
>> should
>> be surprised when they screw up. If too much is taken off a rotor when it
>> is
>> turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK rotor
>> heats
>> up it tends to go our of round.
>
> < After a shotgun rotor replacement the problem still exists.Hmmmmmmmmm...
>
> I was speaking of TURNING the rotor. There are only so many times you
> can shave a rotor on the best of cars. Also lots depends on the mechanic,
> they can shave too much off. And that isn't uncommon.
>
>> Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty
>> far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I
>> would look for the most likely things first.
>
> < Only one side wheel seems to be getting hotter that the rest. That
> < doesn't mean the source of the vibration has been isolated to one
> < side.
>
> Yeah - and IF the problem is ONLY brake related (hanging calipers)
> don't you think the rotor on that side would likely be a pretty shade of
> dark blue? AT least if not ridged?
>
>> You MAY wind up with a bad brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first.
>> Besides you can't really tell
>> about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously
>> collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just
>> unlikely.
>
> < Let's copmpletely discount it then.
>
> I didn't say that, did I, smartass? I merely said START with the MOST
> LIKELY - then those things have been eliminated you progress. HOWEVER - in
> this case IF it is brakes - most likely it will show. What I have seen on
> 15 year old cars is repairs done often on the cheap. Rotors turned when
> they shouldn't have been. Calipers kept on when they should have been
> replaced. One too many back yard repairs by owners. Usually young and
> inexperienced. Again the KEY here is whether or not the tires were mounted
> in an ACTUAL garage or the back yard. IF this were the brakes as
> dogmaticly suggested here, IF the problem is a hanging caliper or a bad
> brake hose, then it would have been hard to miss. IF the caliper is
> hanging with pressure not releasing, then the pads will be making constant
> contact with the rotors. BLUE AS HELL eventually. If it is that the brake
> hose on the right has collapsed or closed (hardening of the artery) than
> you sure as hell will tell it driving the car, and I don't mean a shaking.
> Don't you think if you have ONE SIDE where it is working okay and the
> other side isn't that when you hit the brakes it would tend to PULL just
> a little bit? Maybe violently?? That's not what I read so far.
>
>> You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car.
>> Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free.
>
> < You have a vast knowledge of what *most* shops will do.
>
> Look JACKASS - I worked for both Firestone AND Goodyear. I also owned
> my own parts store. Am I a mechanic? NO! But I know a LITTLE about
> cars.Enough to have raced in USAC and SCCA.
>
>> Especially the store where you bought the tires.
>
> < All above advice noted, now direct the OP to a competent mechanic.
>
> There are some things the owner can see. Like a BRIGHT DARK BLUE ROTOR.
> Don't you think a suspensioin part or CV joint is worth of consideration?
>

I've seen lots of rotors warp that are not discolored. The best way to
check the condition of the rotor is to measure lateral and radial runout.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

"Ray O" <rokigawaATtristarassociatesDOTcom> wrote in message
. ..

>>> > Replace both front brake hoses, replace the brake fluid, and bleed the
>>> > brakes.
>>
>>> That may not get the problem. Most tire places use a "static balance."
>>> system.
>>
>> < Which region(s) are you basing this data on? Static balancing would
>> < yield a satisfactory result for most people most of the time, but what
>> < reputable shop relies on this method anymore?
>>
>> Static balance only examine ONE exis of wheel balance and trueness.
>> Granted most GOOD shops use dynamic balance today. Ever been in a
>> Wal-Mart tire shop? K-Mart?

> The Wal-Mart and K-Mart shops here in the Midwest all use dynamic
> balancers.

In many parts of the country they HAVE them but do not always USE them.

>>> Okay for some purposes on newer cars, but this car is 15 years old.
>>> Wheels on the 93 Toyota were not exactly the strongest.

>> < What exactly is wrong with 93 Corolla wheels? Do you even know what
>> < their dimensions are? How many lugs and what's their spacing? What
>> < changed about this in 1998?

>> The standard steel wheel on the Corolla is not the most robust. Which
>> dimension are you talking about? The 15" rims with a 5 bolt pattern? Or
>> do you want to talk about the thickness of the steel in the wheel itself?
>> If so, at what point in the wheel? You know the bead is pretty thick, but
>> the center section of the wheel where it is welded to the base is pretty
>> thin. You know, I've never taken a mic to measure the spacing of the lig
>> holes. I'll have to get back to you on that. Also not being a Toyota
>> expert in that precise a manner, I'd probably never have seen the change
>> from a 4 bolt pattern to the 5 bolt pattern.

>>> The wheel needs a dynamic balance and CLOSE inspection to see how true
>>> it is running. On the older cars potholes can tend to cause the wheels
>>> to become bent.

>> < Yes, newer cars avoid this entirely.

>> No but wheel construction has been changed with more cars usily alloy
>> wheels today.

>>> I'd start there. Also the Corolla of the 90's was famous for bad wheel
>>> bearings.

>> < I'm curious, what specific problems were the "90's Corolla wheel
>> < bearings" famous for? Would this include, say, a 1999 Corolla?

>> The problems were in going SQUARE of not inspected and repacked every
>> 20,000 miles or so.

> The wheel bearings on the OP's Corolla are sealed and are not repack-able.

The WHEEL bearings on the spindle or the inner ones near the CV?

>>> We could assume it has disc brakes on the front wheels,
>>
>> < Why assume something (that is groin-poundingly obvious anyway)?
>> < Really? "Disc brakes" on the front of a 90's rice burner? Wow, what
>> < will they think of next?!

>> Round tires. Smart ass.
>
>>> A close inspection of the spindle and the rotor are next. Not knowing
>>> how many miles are on the
>>> car (generally we can assume over 100,000)

>> < Of course you can; you prophesied that his car has disc brakes! Who
>> < would doubt your clairvoyance?

>> Look clown - I know people with a 1989 Toyota with 40,000 miles on
>> them. I also know some folks with 200,000 miles on a 2006 Corolla.

>>> at this age as a minimum - you have all sorts of culprits along the way
>>> as possibles. Maybe even
>>> combinations. That's without getting to any suspension parts. Look at
>>> the
>>> most likely first.
>>
>>> 1. Bent wheel.
>>> 2. Bad wheel balance.
>>> 3. Bad bearing.
>>> 4. Bad rotor or worn spindle.
>>> 5. Suspension parts. (there are several high failure parts on the
>>> corolla)
>>>
>>> The brake son the Corolla CAN be bad, but have been one of the more
>>> reliable things about Toyota. The only question here is how many times
>>> the
>>> rotors were turned and how accurately. MANY brake shops are butchers.
>>> The
>>> cut rate places often have poorly trained KIDS doing the job. Nobody
>>> should
>>> be surprised when they screw up. If too much is taken off a rotor when
>>> it is
>>> turned, they get sort of square after a while. As the too THINK rotor
>>> heats
>>> up it tends to go our of round.
>
>> < After a shotgun rotor replacement the problem still
>> exists.Hmmmmmmmmm...

>> I was speaking of TURNING the rotor. There are only so many times you
>> can shave a rotor on the best of cars. Also lots depends on the mechanic,
>> they can shave too much off. And that isn't uncommon.

>>> Look at the most likely first. Brake lines are down the list pretty
>>> far. Since it is only ONE side that seems to be causing the vibration I
>>> would look for the most likely things first.
>>
>> < Only one side wheel seems to be getting hotter that the rest. That
>> < doesn't mean the source of the vibration has been isolated to one
>> < side.
>>
>> Yeah - and IF the problem is ONLY brake related (hanging calipers)
>> don't you think the rotor on that side would likely be a pretty shade of
>> dark blue? AT least if not ridged?
>>
>>> You MAY wind up with a bad brake hose, but I'd look elsewhere first.
>>> Besides you can't really tell
>>> about the hose even when you remove it. Not unless it is obviously
>>> collapsed. Hardening of the brake hose arteries is not impossible, just
>>> unlikely.

>> < Let's copmpletely discount it then.

>> I didn't say that, did I, smartass? I merely said START with the MOST
>> LIKELY - then those things have been eliminated you progress. HOWEVER -
>> in this case IF it is brakes - most likely it will show. What I have seen
>> on 15 year old cars is repairs done often on the cheap. Rotors turned
>> when they shouldn't have been. Calipers kept on when they should have
>> been replaced. One too many back yard repairs by owners. Usually young
>> and inexperienced. Again the KEY here is whether or not the tires were
>> mounted in an ACTUAL garage or the back yard. IF this were the brakes as
>> dogmaticly suggested here, IF the problem is a hanging caliper or a bad
>> brake hose, then it would have been hard to miss. IF the caliper is
>> hanging with pressure not releasing, then the pads will be making
>> constant contact with the rotors. BLUE AS HELL eventually. If it is that
>> the brake hose on the right has collapsed or closed (hardening of the
>> artery) than you sure as hell will tell it driving the car, and I don't
>> mean a shaking. Don't you think if you have ONE SIDE where it is working
>> okay and the other side isn't that when you hit the brakes it would tend
>> to PULL just a little bit? Maybe violently?? That's not what I read so
>> far.
>>
>>> You can start to see the problem when you spin up the wheel on the car.
>>> Most tire stores will CHECK the wheel balance OFF the car for free.
>>
>> < You have a vast knowledge of what *most* shops will do.

>> Look JACKASS - I worked for both Firestone AND Goodyear. I also owned
>> my own parts store. Am I a mechanic? NO! But I know a LITTLE about
>> cars.Enough to have raced in USAC and SCCA.

>>> Especially the store where you bought the tires.

>> < All above advice noted, now direct the OP to a competent mechanic.

>> There are some things the owner can see. Like a BRIGHT DARK BLUE
>> ROTOR. Don't you think a suspensioin part or CV joint is worth of
>> consideration?

> I've seen lots of rotors warp that are not discolored. The best way to
> check the condition of the rotor is to measure lateral and radial runout.


No duhh, BUT with a chronic problem you would expect either severe
discoloration OR grooves. Again you use a MIC to see if the rotor is in
spec. Then go from there. I NEVER said a bad brake hose was impossible, I
just said that IT isn't where *I* would start. There are lots of FREE things
you can check with an eyeball.