Dodge caravan Metric Tools?

clifto wrote:
> Nicholas wrote:
> > Tegger > wrote:
> >>clifto > wrote:
> >>> Bob M. wrote:
> >>>> All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for
> >>>> the past 25 years.
> >>>
> >>> There's a big difference between a vehicle being metric and a vehicle
> >>> having some metric parts.
> >>
> >>Vehicles designed in North America have been created entirely in Metric for
> >>at least the last 20 years.
> >>
> >>In the CAD/CAM files, cars are subdivided into one-decimeter (10cm, about
> >>4") cubes.
> >>
> >>With a few exceptions, fasteners have been Metric for at least that long,
> >>I'm sure.
> >
> > Not exactly. I've got a Merc Sable that has both Metric and English
> > fasteners and bolts. So I bought one of those combination socket sets
> > to cover all the bases.
>
> My 1989 and 1991 Grand Marquises have more English than metric parts.
> My 1994 Acclaim has a good number of English parts, and they're always
> the ones I approach with a metric socket. All were made in the last 20
> years.
>
> --
> B. Hussein Obama won't wear an American flag on his lapel, or put his hand over
> his heart during the national anthem, but prominently displayed in his Houston
> campaign office are TWO Cuban flags, each with a picture of Che Guevara
> superimposed on it.

You need to correct the factual errors in your postscript because I
saw Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. with his hand over his heart when the
national anthem played, and unlike when George Bush did it, he wasn't
playing with his left nipple.

Nicholas wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:21:03 -0600, clifto > wrote:

> >B. Hussein Obama won't wear an American flag on his lapel, or put his hand over
> >his heart during the national anthem, but prominently displayed in his Houston
> >campaign office are TWO Cuban flags, each with a picture of Che Guevara
> >superimposed on it.
>
> He went to Islamic Madrassas when he was a kid, so what do you expect?

But he didn't. It was a school where the boys and girls sat in the
same classrooms, something that never happens in a Madrassa.

> He was Islamic.

His name and father are.

> Don't know if he still is.

He never was. He's Methodist, just like Bush.

> But I won't hold that against him.

You already did, in a cowardly, underhanded way, not the way a real
man would. But I won't hold that against you.

> As long as he doesn't make me bow down to Mecca 4 times
> a day and eat camel for supper.

The Bush family has been trying to do that to us for years and has
long been good buddies with the bin Ladens and the chief sponsor of
Islamic terrorism, the Saud family.

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 03:13:23 -0800 (PST), Norm De Plume
> wrote:

>> But I won't hold that against him.
>
>You already did, in a cowardly, underhanded way, not the way a real
>man would. But I won't hold that against you.

Enlighten me. Tell me what a Real Man is. After all these years, I'm
having a problem considering your proposal that I don't measure up.

Nick

wrote:
> Russian Motorcycle? You can buy a Chinese copy of a pre-war BMW R-71
> Motorcycle (with a sidecar) www.chang-jiang.com if you want one.
>
> Heck, nowdays there are Chinese copies of everything.
> cuhulin
>

......and cheap copies , too. Even wheel and engine bearings

Busman > wrote:
>Try owning a vintage Russian motorcycle (1952 M72). Even the local metric
>fastener place is scared when I walk in!

I have worked on some Russian gear that was metric but with a different
thread profile than the standard M thread.

Kind of like 1/4-20 Whitworth...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article >,
> wrote:
>Russian Motorcycle? You can buy a Chinese copy of a pre-war BMW R-71
>Motorcycle (with a sidecar) www.chang-jiang.com if you want one.

You don't want one. That's actually a Chinese copy of the Russian Ural
copy of the BMW R-71. The Ural is better made than the Chinese one by
quite a bit... and it's not so well made although it IS a hell of a lot
of fun.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Steve W." > wrote in :

> Tegger wrote:
>> "Steve W." > wrote in :

>>>>
>>> There are a few different "Metric Standards". You have the European
>>> Industrial Standard and the Japanese Industrial Standard those are
>>> the common automotive ones.
>>
>>
>>
>> What are the practical differences between those two (such that I'd
>> notice in everyday use)?
>>
>> I Googled, but didn't come up with anything useful.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> The DIN (Deutsches Institut für Normung) EIS standards and the JIS
> share a lot BUT there are more than a few gotchas in the mix.
> Depending on the thread pitch itself the root diameters and thread
> wall angles may be different. In practical use it means that you may
> have a M-8 bolt in JIS and an M-8 hole in DIN and they will not go
> together. Things like head bolts on German autos and bottom end parts
> are a couple of the OOPs areas I have run into.
>



I had NO idea, so thanks.

We have two Japanese cars, and Japanese is all I've ever owned (with the
exception of one Dodge Coronet).

Any Metric fasteners I've ever bought have come from all sorts of places,
from the auto dealer to auto parts jobbers to the corner hardware store.
I've never encountered any sort of problems with the fit of any bolt in any
hole. Nor have I ever been asked which standard of Metric fastener I
require.

I have a Metric tap and die set. The labeling does not specify the standard
to which the tools conform.

I'm thinking either most fasteners must be made to a single standard
(DIN?), or the standards are so similar you'd need to find yourself in
unusual situations to see any difference.

--
Tegger

On Feb 15, 7:03*am, Tegger > wrote:
> clifto > wrote :
>
>
>
>
>
> > Nicholas wrote:
> >> Tegger > wrote:
> >>>clifto > wrote:
> >>>> Bob M. wrote:
> >>>>> All vehicles, even those made in the US of A, have been metric for
> >>>>> the past 25 years.
>
> >>>> There's a big difference between a vehicle being metric and a
> >>>> vehicle having some metric parts.
>
> >>>Vehicles designed in North America have been created entirely in
> >>>Metric for at least the last 20 years.
>
> >>>In the CAD/CAM files, cars are subdivided into one-decimeter (10cm,
> >>>about 4") cubes.
>
> >>>With a few exceptions, fasteners have been Metric for at least that
> >>>long, I'm sure.
>
> >> Not exactly. *I've got a Merc Sable that has both Metric and English
> >> fasteners and bolts. *So I bought one of those combination socket
> >> sets to cover all the bases.
>
> > My 1989 and 1991 Grand Marquises have more English than metric parts.
> > My 1994 Acclaim has a good number of English parts, and they're always
> > the ones I approach with a metric socket. All were made in the last 20
> > years.
>
> You can tell I don't have much experience with domestic cars...
>
> --
> Tegger

A good rule of thumb on domestic vehicles with mixed fasteners:

The bolts or studs that thread directly into the heads and block will
be standard, while all others will be metric.

They are slowly phasing in new designs/castings to take the place of
certain 30+ year old engines, so just be patient ;-)

Toyota MDT in MO

Tegger > wrote:
>> The DIN (Deutsches Institut für Normung) EIS standards and the JIS
>> share a lot BUT there are more than a few gotchas in the mix.
>> Depending on the thread pitch itself the root diameters and thread
>> wall angles may be different. In practical use it means that you may
>> have a M-8 bolt in JIS and an M-8 hole in DIN and they will not go
>> together. Things like head bolts on German autos and bottom end parts
>> are a couple of the OOPs areas I have run into.
>
>I had NO idea, so thanks.
>
>We have two Japanese cars, and Japanese is all I've ever owned (with the
>exception of one Dodge Coronet).
>
>Any Metric fasteners I've ever bought have come from all sorts of places,
>from the auto dealer to auto parts jobbers to the corner hardware store.
>I've never encountered any sort of problems with the fit of any bolt in any
>hole. Nor have I ever been asked which standard of Metric fastener I
>require.

Some of the thread profiles are the same, and the ones that aren't
are mostly close enough.

For most things, there's not a big deal, but if you have bolts that need
to be torqued precisely, it's a huge deal. This makes it a big deal for
the aircraft industry.

It's also a big deal on very small parts where the torque to seat them
and the torque to strip them are sometimes already very close. I encountered
that issue with M1.5 screw on the Studer (German) tape machines.

>I have a Metric tap and die set. The labeling does not specify the standard
>to which the tools conform.
>
>I'm thinking either most fasteners must be made to a single standard
>(DIN?), or the standards are so similar you'd need to find yourself in
>unusual situations to see any difference.

Yes, this is what makes it so insidious. Everything is mostly fine until
you find yourself in an unusual situation.

It't not QUITE as bad as Whitworth threads... a 1/4-20 Whitworth bolt will
fit into a 1/4-20NC nut but the 1/4-20NC bolt won't fit into a 1/4-20 Whitworth
nut. Or is it the other way around? Legions of folks ruined MG engine blocks
this way.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I have a lot of taps and dies and threading thingys.I bought them at
some pawn shops around here.Sometimes, there are some good tools for
sale in those pawn shops, you never know what you will find in there.

One of the pawn shops, about five miles me, you have to be carefull when
you walk through the door, there are all kinds of tools and tool boxes
on the floor, the shelves,everywhere.My favorite kind of pawn shop.
cuhulin