147 & other Alfa owners

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:22:44 GMT, Hachiroku > wrote:

>On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:27:26 -0400, flobert wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:21:52 GMT, Hachiroku > wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:14:51 -0400, flobert wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:42:22 GMT, Hachiroku > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>There was also a representation from Citroen where they had some of their
>>>>>new models, a Rallye car (whoa!) and one of the oldest 2CVs in existance
>>>>>(number 3, I think!)
>>>>>
>>>> not a big fan of modern Rally cars. They're getting to be so
>>>> sensitive, and delicate, and computer controlled. I'll stick with
>>>> 6R4's and my fathers old 71 escort rally car.
>>>
>>>Was it '88? '90? '92?
>>>
>>>
>
>Was it '88? '90? '92?Ford RS200 Rallye car. What a machine!
>Um, this is what I meant...

the RS200's were group B cars, and thus only made 82-84, I think.
Thats pretty much the entire time period for all the group B rally
cars, although the 6R4 was made until 85, iirc, because of the success
of the baby 250hp version in club-level rallyin.

>
>> yeah, and what a shame the 6R4 metro kept kicking its backside
>>
>> the escort was a 1971. (hence '71 escort')
>
>I remember the Escorts. We had a different model here. The looked kind of
>similar, but you guys got the GOOD looking one!

they didn't look that good in 71-72 when they first came out.

>
>>
>> most of the 6R4's i've driven were 83-84ish, groupB like the RS200s
>
>Gruppe B..the Killer B's. They cancelled for what, one year? Two years?
>
>Killing off your spectators is NOT a good way to advance your sport!
>Kinda like 'football' (soccer) or Rugby.
>
>I remember watching a race from Spain and a car went off the road, into
>the crowd, running over a Mother and her 12 YO son, killing the boy. Can't
>remember the driver; if I said the name you'd know it.

Thats the risk that goes with every Rally, even nowadays. One of the
hardest parts too, because you have to ignore the spectators and hope
they WILL get out of the way in timeYou watch the covereage of some of
the WRC races now, and you'll see that sometimes the cars miss the
photorgaphers by a foot or two, as the guys scampering back to the
bank, after taking a head-on shot. It really does take all your nerve
to keep going, and not stop through sheer instinct to avoid 'possibly
hitting people'

>
>Poor kid probably bugged his Mom for hours or days to get her to take him...

WE all did (well, mine was more along the lines of 'can i be your
co-driver this time')

Hachiroku wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:02:14 +0000, tomb wrote:
>
>> I just shudder everytime I see one of those ridiculously *huge*
>> SUVs, with one *tiny* person sitting in it, mostly on the cell phone
>> (not paying attention to the traffic, thereby greatly increasing the
>> risk of accidents).
>
> You've been reading my posts again, eh?


Not at all. It's personal experience in the oh-so-offroady SF Bay Area,
augmented by survival instinct (in my 88 Civic and on my bicycle in traffic,
both of which I know will leave me dead if an SUV decides to run over me).

> Plagarism...you'll be hearing from my Lawyers...



> Honest to God true story: saw a woman on a rural highway (2 laner)
> about
> to enter the highway, talking on the phone, eating a sandwich and
> doing something that looked like drying her nails, while driving an
> Expedition.

*shakes head*...

Hachiroku wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:01:05 +0100, John wrote:
>> In the US they mainly have bigger automatic cars and SUVs because
>> they are ideal for and designed for their needs.
>
> Not really. I'd bet 3/4 of the SUVs in this country NEVER see ANY
> off-road use, and prolly 1/2 of those never even see dirt roads.

75%? More like 98%+, especially those with the low profile tires and spinner
rims...

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 02:26:39 -0400, flobert wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 00:22:44 GMT, Hachiroku > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:27:26 -0400, flobert wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 19:21:52 GMT, Hachiroku > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:14:51 -0400, flobert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:42:22 GMT, Hachiroku > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>There was also a representation from Citroen where they had some of their
>>>>>>new models, a Rallye car (whoa!) and one of the oldest 2CVs in existance
>>>>>>(number 3, I think!)
>>>>>>
>>>>> not a big fan of modern Rally cars. They're getting to be so
>>>>> sensitive, and delicate, and computer controlled. I'll stick with
>>>>> 6R4's and my fathers old 71 escort rally car.
>>>>
>>>>Was it '88? '90? '92?
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>Was it '88? '90? '92?Ford RS200 Rallye car. What a machine!
>>Um, this is what I meant...
>
> the RS200's were group B cars, and thus only made 82-84, I think.
> Thats pretty much the entire time period for all the group B rally
> cars, although the 6R4 was made until 85, iirc, because of the success
> of the baby 250hp version in club-level rallyin.
>
>>
>>> yeah, and what a shame the 6R4 metro kept kicking its backside
>>>
>>> the escort was a 1971. (hence '71 escort')
>>
>>I remember the Escorts. We had a different model here. The looked kind of
>>similar, but you guys got the GOOD looking one!
>
> they didn't look that good in 71-72 when they first came out.
>
>>
>>>
>>> most of the 6R4's i've driven were 83-84ish, groupB like the RS200s
>>
>>Gruppe B..the Killer B's. They cancelled for what, one year? Two years?
>>
>>Killing off your spectators is NOT a good way to advance your sport!
>>Kinda like 'football' (soccer) or Rugby.
>>
>>I remember watching a race from Spain and a car went off the road, into
>>the crowd, running over a Mother and her 12 YO son, killing the boy. Can't
>>remember the driver; if I said the name you'd know it.
>
> Thats the risk that goes with every Rally, even nowadays. One of the
> hardest parts too, because you have to ignore the spectators and hope
> they WILL get out of the way in timeYou watch the covereage of some of
> the WRC races now, and you'll see that sometimes the cars miss the
> photorgaphers by a foot or two, as the guys scampering back to the
> bank, after taking a head-on shot. It really does take all your nerve
> to keep going, and not stop through sheer instinct to avoid 'possibly
> hitting people'

I've seen photogs get hit!

>
>>
>>Poor kid probably bugged his Mom for hours or days to get her to take him...
>
> WE all did (well, mine was more along the lines of 'can i be your
> co-driver this time')

Must have been fun. My mom HATES cars! ('Cause i have so many?)

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 07:56:51 +0000, tomb wrote:

> Hachiroku wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:01:05 +0100, John wrote:
>>> In the US they mainly have bigger automatic cars and SUVs because
>>> they are ideal for and designed for their needs.
>>
>> Not really. I'd bet 3/4 of the SUVs in this country NEVER see ANY
>> off-road use, and prolly 1/2 of those never even see dirt roads.
>
> 75%? More like 98%+, especially those with the low profile tires and spinner
> rims...

Cruising down the Freeway in LA county?

SteveH wrote:
> cupra > wrote:
>
>> SteveH wrote:
>>> John > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for all the help guys. I think Alfas are great, the Honda
>>>> vtec engines are first class, and Toyota are also pretty reliable
>>>> too. I am probably going to go for a Seat Tdi though. I think an
>>>> Alfa may be too expensive for my budget.
>>>
>>> An Alfa is never too expensive..... just look at the depreciation
>>> ;-)
>>
>> lol
>
> Sadly true, though.... where else would I get a 155bhp luxury sports
> saloon at 6 years old for £2800?

Exactly - bargain (subject to cam belt!)

>
> A BMW 320i would be at least double that price, even a half decent A4
> or Passat would be at least a grand to 1500 quid more.
>
> I love my Alfas, but you can never defend the depreciation..... but
> that's a good thing, really. Let the company car drivers take the hit,
> then buy when they're cheap :-)

Unfortunately I had to buy mine new (car allowance policy - so I probably
save taxwise anyway) - but I'm keeping it for the missus anyway when I
upgrade in 2 yrs!

>Are Spanish made VW's as bad as Mexican made VW's?
>
>I like the SEAT models, but they don't sell in the US...

I think that petty much all the VAG group of cars are well built and
reliable. VW, Audi, Seat and even Skoda to name four.

Some of the more recent Seat models have been designed by former Alfa
Romeo designers, as well as being influenced by Audi Concept designs.

Seat use the same parts used in a lot of VWs. Ibiza has the same
chassis and engines as the Polo, the Leon the same as the Golf. Often
the Seat counterpart to the VW outperforms the VW one. Of course the
VW has better interior etc.

I think the main differences between them, they are trying to make
Seat more of a sportier fun brand to appeal to younger people, VW more
practical, and maybe family or young professional orientated. Skoda
for families on a budget and Audi more classier, prestigious/
luxurious.

I believe the cars they have made in places like Mexico and Argentina
are completely different from what they make in Europe and not as good
in terms of quality.

Maybe someone else with more knowledge would like to input on this? I
am not any sort of expert when it comes to cars and don't work for any
of the VW/Audi group of companies.

John

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 02:00:08 -0400, flobert > wrote:

>On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:40:32 GMT, dizzy > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:00:34 -0400, flobert > wrote:
>>
>>>Toyota's, i feel sorry for you - With all the high-end turnover over
>>>the past few years, and the switching to cheap metal, i'm surprised
>>>theoir vehicles ahven't fallen apart already. Friends got an 05 camry,
>>>its had more work done to it since december, than my 88 civic and 87
>>>caravan combined. Oh, and its already rusting, but thats cheap argie
>>>steel for you.
>>
>>An '05 is "already rusting", huh? Yeah, that's real believable.
>
>Rust was first visible in feb. Easy to remember, since i noticed it in
>the road outside my house, and it was whilst we were moving.

Sure.

>>The quality of the steel is pretty much meaningless, in the short
>>term, when it's galvaneeled and painted.
>
>Well, assumingits galvanised and painted right. But with all the
>shakeups at all ifferent levels of the corp, the financial switching
>arond and so forth, you'd be amazed. Amazing what you find out when a
>reletive owns a company that supplies toyotas metal (or rather did,
>and never got paid for it, and has been trying to get payment via the
>courts for 5 years)

Cite, please.

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:37:39 +0100, John wrote:

>>Are Spanish made VW's as bad as Mexican made VW's?
>>
>>I like the SEAT models, but they don't sell in the US...
>
> I think that petty much all the VAG group of cars are well built and
> reliable. VW, Audi, Seat and even Skoda to name four.

SKODA!!!!! OooooH.

They were actually pretty neat cars, but didn't hold up well to Canadian
winters. I liked the way the trunk (in the front) opened from the pavement.

>
> Some of the more recent Seat models have been designed by former Alfa
> Romeo designers, as well as being influenced by Audi Concept designs.

Explains the nice designs.

>
> Seat use the same parts used in a lot of VWs. Ibiza has the same
> chassis and engines as the Polo, the Leon the same as the Golf. Often
> the Seat counterpart to the VW outperforms the VW one. Of course the
> VW has better interior etc.

Explains the Recalls and the repairs???

GOLFs have a terrible record here. They WILL go 300,000 Mi, but you'll
have to repair them a lot!

>
> I think the main differences between them, they are trying to make
> Seat more of a sportier fun brand to appeal to younger people, VW more
> practical, and maybe family or young professional orientated. Skoda
> for families on a budget and Audi more classier, prestigious/
> luxurious.

Hyave you seen the Polo commercial where the 'terrorist' straps a bomb
onto himself, jumps in his Polo, drives to a busy outdoor cafe and pushes
the button...

and the entire explosion is contained inside the car? I guess VW pulled
it, but I loved it!

>
> I believe the cars they have made in places like Mexico and Argentina
> are completely different from what they make in Europe and not as good
> in terms of quality.

I had a German Jetta that was a POS, and my old boss has a Golf that is in
constant repair. His is a 2002 GTi 1.8t. NICE CAR, if it could stay away
from the dealer! I liked my Jetta, too, but in 2 yers I had 4 or 5 times
the number of RO's as I had for a 5 YO Corolla!!!

>
> Maybe someone else with more knowledge would like to input on this? I
> am not any sort of expert when it comes to cars and don't work for any
> of the VW/Audi group of companies.
>
> John

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 22:42:58 +0000, dizzy wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 02:00:08 -0400, flobert > wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:40:32 GMT, dizzy > wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:00:34 -0400, flobert > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Toyota's, i feel sorry for you - With all the high-end turnover over
>>>>the past few years, and the switching to cheap metal, i'm surprised
>>>>theoir vehicles ahven't fallen apart already. Friends got an 05 camry,
>>>>its had more work done to it since december, than my 88 civic and 87
>>>>caravan combined. Oh, and its already rusting, but thats cheap argie
>>>>steel for you.
>>>
>>>An '05 is "already rusting", huh? Yeah, that's real believable.
>>
>>Rust was first visible in feb. Easy to remember, since i noticed it in
>>the road outside my house, and it was whilst we were moving.
>
> Sure.
>
>>>The quality of the steel is pretty much meaningless, in the short
>>>term, when it's galvaneeled and painted.
>>
>>Well, assumingits galvanised and painted right. But with all the
>>shakeups at all ifferent levels of the corp, the financial switching
>>arond and so forth, you'd be amazed. Amazing what you find out when a
>>reletive owns a company that supplies toyotas metal (or rather did,
>>and never got paid for it, and has been trying to get payment via the
>>courts for 5 years)
>
> Cite, please.

Damn, man, you're starting to sound like bb...