What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have never done?

On 6/11/2017 1:46 AM, RS Wood wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>
>> You understand the efficacy of slotted and/or drilled rotors the first
>> time you experience brake fade.
>
> Nope. Not gonna buy it. You'll have to sell that elixer elsewhere.
> I have read too much practical stuff to believe in marketing bull****.
>
> Removing metal is not the best way to dissipate heat in a rotor.
> I get the surface area stuff. I do.
> I get the water-runoff stuff. I do.
> I get the lighter rotor stuff. I do.
>
> Mass is what matters when you want to dissipate heat, all else (e.g.,
> airflow over the rotors).
>
> Why do you think the biggest spec for failing rotors is thickness?
>
> Let's not just talk. If you really think that removing mass is the way to
> make rotors run cooler, then just show me a valid reference that agrees
> with your point of view. (Not marketing bull**** please.)
>
Pads, under extremes of heat, give off gases. It is the presence of
those gases *between* the pads and the disc that prevents the friction
from happening. The gases make the pads operate more like a hovercraft.
The slots provide a means by which the gases can quickly escape.
In a road going car, slotted rotors are probably overkill. Not so on
high performance vehicles.

--

Xeno

On 6/11/2017 3:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 11/5/2017 12:48 AM, RS Wood wrote:
>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>> Whenever we see something with a rounded nut or bolt we think "Patrick
>>> was here."Â* Pat is one of my son's friends who NEVER had the right tool.
>>
>> I think they should make adjustable wrenches illegal.
>> I can't for the life of me figure out a use for them.
>>
>
>
> You take an adjustible with you when you don't know what size you will
> need.Â* If you get lucky, 50% of the time it will work but 50% of the
> time you go back for a box or open end.

Especially useful where you are working on one of those ******* bits of
machinery where you have a mixture of metric and SAE bolts and nuts.



--

Xeno

On 6/11/2017 4:18 AM, The Real Bev wrote:
> On 11/05/2017 01:44 AM, Xeno wrote:
>
>> You understand the efficacy of slotted and/or drilled rotors the first
>> time you experience brake fade.
>
> Hrm.Â* I thought that was done to lighten them -- bicyclists are
> sometimes also called gram-shavers.Â* It provides better cooling too?
>
Removing mass reduces heat holding ability. The material removed does
not provide a gain in surface exposure. The real gain is providing a
path for the gasses coming off the pad surfaces to escape from between
the pad and rotor. Reduces the hovercraft effect.

--

Xeno

On 6/11/2017 6:05 AM, Frank wrote:
> On 11/4/2017 4:13 PM, wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 18:17:09 +0000 (UTC), RS Wood >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> rickman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Same here.Â* Any car of mine that needed an engine wasn't worth
>>>> putting an
>>>> engine in.Â* Older cars were not made to last and that was true for
>>>> every
>>>> part of that car.Â* Even things like seats and headliners were shot
>>>> by the
>>>> time the engine was shot.Â* My current truck has 240,000 miles on it
>>>> and the
>>>> engine is one of a number of parts that shows nearly no sign of going
>>>> anytime soon.Â* The parts that have been repaired often were not
>>>> repaired
>>>> right so some have needed repairing more than once, but otherwise
>>>> the truck
>>>> is very sound.
>>>
>>> You make a good point which I don't know the answer to.
>>>
>>> In my kid days, plastic toys did not exist (transistor radios didn't
>>> exist
>>> either), so our Tonka toys were rubber wheels and steel bodies.
>>>
>>> Nowadays, if you leave a kid's toy car outside, the sun alone will
>>> destroy
>>> it within a year or two.
>>>
>>> So they certainly don't build *some stuff* the way they used to.
>>>
>>> However ... cars *seem* to be different. Are they?
>>>
>>> My Chrysler's and Dodges days (in the olden days, we had brand loyalties
>>> that sprang from the brand loyalties of our fathers) showed me that a
>>> tuneup was needed every year, bias-ply tires lasted something like 20K
>>> miles, and, as you said, the interior was shot by the time the engine
>>> went.
>>>
>>> And that was in the days before plastic bumpers and plastic headlights
>>> (they were real glass bulbs in those days).
>>>
>>> But yet, it seems to me, cars last forever now.
>>> In those days, 100K miles was a lot.
>>> Now, it seems, 200K miles is approaching a lot.
>>>
>>> Do they really make cars better but nothing else is better?
>>> How can that be?
>> Â*Â* They sure make cars a lot better -Â* experience and technology have
>> made a lot of difference. ( Remember, in 1959, the automobile, as an
>> object, was not as old as a 1959 car is today!!!!
>>
>> The reason just about anything else you buy today is NOT better is
>> everyone wants it CHEAPER and expects to upgrade long before anything
>> with any QUALITY would require replacement. Everything is changing SO
>> FAST.
>>
>> Â* Most people want to buy the latest and greatest even before today's
>> JUNK is worn out.
>>
>
> I've heard that the younger crowd trades in cars because the electronics
> are outdated, not the mechanical parts.
>
> Lot of us keep a car until repair cost exceeds book value.

I trade my cars in when I'm sick of them.

--

Xeno

On 11/05/2017 02:01 PM, wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 23:37:11 -0700, The Real Bev >
> wrote:
>
>>On 11/04/2017 10:24 PM, wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 21:39:37 -0700, The Real Bev >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 11/04/2017 05:49 PM, wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 16:33:57 -0700, The Real Bev >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I cut my hands to ribbons on the first water pump -- the fan (which had
>>>>>>to be removed) was attached with at least 4 bolts which could only move
>>>>>>1/4 turn without repositioning the 12-point box wrench, the only thing
>>>>>>that would fit. I swore I'd never do that again no matter how much it
>>>>>>cost -- until I found out how much it DID cost. Some of us are too
>>>>>>cheap for our own good.
>>>>>
>>>>> KD makes a special tool for that - at the value O put on skin and
>>>>> suffering, cheap at twice the price
>>>>
>>>>30+ years ago. Ratchet box wrench?
>>> Nope - just a real shallow socket on a steel bar about 1/8 x 1/2 x
>>> 16"
>>
>>I may have seen a tool like that somewhere and wondered what it was for :-(
>>
>>I could only move the wrench in a <90 degree arc before it bumped into
>>immovable objects and I think that 16" might have been too long -- I
>>might have thought of slipping a hunk of pipe over the wrench if that
>>was possible or helpful. Putting the wrench on the bolt was the hard
>>part -- my fingers were right down between the fan and the bolts.
>>
>>Never again!
> Find a place to get the wrench through to the bolt and spin the fan -
> don't need to move the handle more than a few degrees.

I'm sure I tried everything that seemed in any way possible. I don't
even like thinking about it any more :-(

--
Cheers, Bev
Buckle Up. It makes it harder for the aliens
to suck you out of your car.

On 6/11/2017 9:06 AM, wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 23:46:38 -0700, The Real Bev >
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/04/2017 10:27 PM, RS Wood wrote:
>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>>> One more thing, the word "brake warp" or "rotor warp" is banished from your
>>>>> vocabulary. Anyone who uses those two words, is simply proving they're an
>>>>> utter fool.
>>>>
>>>> BUT you do need to replace the rotors (wrecking yard is probably OK) if
>>>> you kept putting off changing the pads until they stopped squealing and
>>>> the backing plates started grinding deep (1/4") grooves into the rotors.
>>>> Amazingly enough, braking worked just fine until the hogging-in started.
>>>
>>> I'm confused by what you wrote, especially in context with the words "warp"
>>> when rotors never warp (or almost never, and never in terms of mattering).
>>
>> Just an aside.
>>
>>> So anyone who *thinks* rotors warp, is an idiot.
>>
>> It might have happened a little on my mom's (end eventually mine) 88
>> Caddy. Slight vibration when braking, but they felt OK. Until 2 of the
>> calipers seized 8 years later, of course :-( POS, I'll never own
>> another GM product.
>>
>>> The replacing of rotors is also determined by idiots most of the time
>>> because people don't have the concept of measuring the thickness because
>>> many people don't have the concept of owning a micrometer.
>>>
>>> I can't count the number of times I've heard someone say to replace the
>>> rotors on the second pad change, where the real answer is to replace the
>>> rotors when they are worn down to the minimum thickness (everything else
>>> being ok).
>>>
>>> In general, the rotors are ok except for pad deposition which is solely a
>>> driver-caused problem (long story later if people ask).
>>>
>>> Sure, grooves can be there but gouges have to be the size of the Grand
>>> Canyon to matter (just look up the specs, you'll see) so grooves are, in
>>> reality, not what makes rotors into paperweights.
>>
>> These looked like a high-school first-time lathe project. Each of the
>> steel projections on the backing plate had dug out its own trench.
>> Godawful noise, but the brakes still worked fine so I figured I could
>> wait another month :-( (Not the Caddy, this was a 68/9 LTD.)
> as a retired auto tech, I have to dissagree. A "plowed" rotor can NOT
> bed properly to the rotor, it cannot "bed" proerly and it WILL
> overheat parts of the pad before the rest even contacts the rotor. A
> "scored" rotor does NOT pas an Ontario DOT test - nor should it. If a
> new pad and rotor wear together and smoothe "ridges" develop, thats a
> slightly different situation - but you should NEVER put new pads on a
> grooved rotor -
>
Any scoring on a rotor will fail it. As you say, there might be less
than 50% of the pad surface in contact with the rotor surface. No way
will that bed in properly. You will get localised overheating both on
the pad and on the rotor.

--

Xeno

On 6/11/2017 9:13 AM, wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 19:48:11 +1100, Xeno >
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/11/2017 2:47 PM, RS Wood wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I still don't see how the *gas* has anything to do with engines lasting
>>>>> longer. Maybe it does, but I don't see the connection.
>>>>
>>>> Lead free along with EFI is why plugs last forever.
>>>
>>> That's an enigma to me, but if I think it through, EFI allowed for higher
>>> voltages which I'd think would melt a spark plug even more than the lower
>>> voltages, but maybe what happened is a higher voltage zap keeps the plugs
>>> from fouling. The zap may even be shorter for all I know.
>>
>> In the emissions world, a longer zap is what you need. A short zap can
>> lead to a misfire so that's a no no. In order to get a longer term
>> spark, there arose a need to go to high energy ignition systems.
>>>
>>> The lack of tetraethyl lead, I guess, besides meaning harder valve seats,
>>> means fewer deposits on the plugs I guess, where deposits that conduct
>>> electricity cause the voltage to bleed off down the center electrode to the
>>> threads.
>>>
>>> Is that how the lead and efi helped plugs last forever?
>>>
>>> The enigma is that the higher voltage "should" eat the metal faster.
>>>
> MSD - mult-spark-Discharge ignition was a performance add-on in the
> late seventies - before computer controlled ignition.
>
The GDI engines are moving to multi spark due to stratified charge.

--

Xeno

On 6/11/2017 9:13 AM, wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Nov 2017 19:56:38 +1100, Xeno >
> wrote:
>
>> On 5/11/2017 3:15 PM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On 11/4/2017 9:32 PM, RS Wood wrote:
>>>> We were talking about timing belts inside car engines.
>>>>
>>>> The problem with timing belts on some engines is when they break, the
>>>> pistons can contact the valves, which is the dumbest bit of engineering I
>>>> have ever seen in my life.
>>>
>>> A belt is a belt. The point I was trying to make, albeit awkwardly, was
>>> visual inspection of the belt tells you nothing in most cases. You
>>> replace the thing after N miles based on the mean time to failure. If
>>> you have a timing belt that fails before that and an interference engine
>>> you can plan on replacing valves too. There are many things on an
>>> automobile that give you hints they should be replaced; timing belts
>>> just break.
>>>
>>> Timing chains used to be less dependable but the newer ones are greatly
>>> improved. I'm happy my Toyota has a chain. I haven't researched it but I
>>> do believe some manufacturers are going back to chains. Belts are
>>> cheaper but ****ed off customers aren't.
>>
>> I have Toyotas precisely because they have a chain.
> Some do, some don't. (perhaps today they all do - not sure)
>
The ones I buy sure do! ;-)

--

Xeno

On 11/05/2017 03:31 PM, Xeno wrote:
> On 6/11/2017 3:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 11/5/2017 12:48 AM, RS Wood wrote:
>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> Whenever we see something with a rounded nut or bolt we think "Patrick
>>>> was here." Pat is one of my son's friends who NEVER had the right tool.
>>>
>>> I think they should make adjustable wrenches illegal.
>>> I can't for the life of me figure out a use for them.
>>
>> You take an adjustible with you when you don't know what size you will
>> need. If you get lucky, 50% of the time it will work but 50% of the
>> time you go back for a box or open end.
>
> Especially useful where you are working on one of those ******* bits of
> machinery where you have a mixture of metric and SAE bolts and nuts.

Are metrinch wrenches still available? Did anyone ever buy them?

--
Cheers, Bev
Buckle Up. It makes it harder for the aliens
to suck you out of your car.

The Real Bev wrote:
> On 11/05/2017 03:31 PM, Xeno wrote:
>> On 6/11/2017 3:15 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 11/5/2017 12:48 AM, RS Wood wrote:
>>>> The Real Bev wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Whenever we see something with a rounded nut or bolt we think "Patrick
>>>>> was here." Pat is one of my son's friends who NEVER had the right tool.
>>>> I think they should make adjustable wrenches illegal.
>>>> I can't for the life of me figure out a use for them.
>>> You take an adjustible with you when you don't know what size you will
>>> need. If you get lucky, 50% of the time it will work but 50% of the
>>> time you go back for a box or open end.
>> Especially useful where you are working on one of those ******* bits of
>> machinery where you have a mixture of metric and SAE bolts and nuts.
>
> Are metrinch wrenches still available? Did anyone ever buy them?
>

They are still out there and new versions seem to pop up now and then.
They can be handy in the rust belt if you're out on the road.

--
Steve W.