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#21
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head thread repair on aluminum block
> wrote
> jim beam wrote: > >> > Well, do you think it would be possible to find a >> > 12mmx1.5 bolt to use >> > in its place? The bolt is 6 3/8 inches and the >> > threaded part is 1 >> > inch. The head is 14mm. I don't know where to look >> > for this kind of >> > thing... the best I could think of is maybe some other >> > Honda uses a >> > similar bolt. >> >> best stick with the original bolt regardless. > > Is it possible that the bolt really was a 1.25 I would bet money the pitch is 1.25. The online factory service manual for this Accord says in two places it's a 1.25 pitch bolt. Plus, only one piece of evidence you have (your own measurement of the bolt pitch) suggests it's not 1.25. "Believe your indications." -- Rule from navy nuke program when analyzing problems with the plant. (Psychological studies show a basis for resisting believing one's indications. One has to 'resist the resistance,' blah blah when making electro-mechanical diagnoses.) > but was able to thread > into the 1.5 gauge anyway? Yup. Plus all that soft metal will rework itself without much difficulty, but not to the point where I would trust the holding power of the setup. Re-helicoil? I have never done a helicoil job, so I ask for my own edification as much as yours. The net's reports on the use of helicoil inserts to repair stripped threads certainly are promising. I would be checking the other, so far relatively untouched head bolts to see that they are 1.25 mm pitch. Get yourself to a True Value hardware or other store that has a bin of M12x1.25 etc. nuts, and confirm the pitch? > Of course, maybe their gauge was cross > threaded by another customer. > So what can be done about it jumping around? It'd be nice > to get > something approximating the correct torque on it. Isn't "correct torque" rather tangential to the main concern, namely, how tight the head is held onto the engine? I personally would not focus on "correct torque" prior to getting the factory specified male and female threads into good repair. Just an amateur here. |
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#22
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head thread repair on aluminum block
That resistance thing is called "denial" in civilian psychology courses, and
it is probably the most powerful force known to humans. You are quite right that "how tight the head is held onto the engine" depends on the thread pitch. Finer threads have more leverage, and therefore give you more tightness for the same torque. Earle "Elle" > wrote in message ink.net... > > wrote > > jim beam wrote: > > > >> > Well, do you think it would be possible to find a > >> > 12mmx1.5 bolt to use > >> > in its place? The bolt is 6 3/8 inches and the > >> > threaded part is 1 > >> > inch. The head is 14mm. I don't know where to look > >> > for this kind of > >> > thing... the best I could think of is maybe some other > >> > Honda uses a > >> > similar bolt. > >> > >> best stick with the original bolt regardless. > > > > Is it possible that the bolt really was a 1.25 > > I would bet money the pitch is 1.25. The online factory > service manual for this Accord says in two places it's a > 1.25 pitch bolt. Plus, only one piece of evidence you have > (your own measurement of the bolt pitch) suggests it's not > 1.25. "Believe your indications." -- Rule from navy nuke > program when analyzing problems with the plant. > (Psychological studies show a basis for resisting believing > one's indications. One has to 'resist the resistance,' blah > blah when making electro-mechanical diagnoses.) > > > but was able to thread > > into the 1.5 gauge anyway? > > Yup. Plus all that soft metal will rework itself without > much difficulty, but not to the point where I would trust > the holding power of the setup. > > Re-helicoil? I have never done a helicoil job, so I ask for > my own edification as much as yours. The net's reports on > the use of helicoil inserts to repair stripped threads > certainly are promising. > > I would be checking the other, so far relatively untouched > head bolts to see that they are 1.25 mm pitch. Get yourself > to a True Value hardware or other store that has a bin of > M12x1.25 etc. nuts, and confirm the pitch? > > > Of course, maybe their gauge was cross > > threaded by another customer. > > > So what can be done about it jumping around? It'd be nice > > to get > > something approximating the correct torque on it. > > Isn't "correct torque" rather tangential to the main > concern, namely, how tight the head is held onto the engine? > I personally would not focus on "correct torque" prior to > getting the factory specified male and female threads into > good repair. > > Just an amateur here. > > |
#23
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head thread repair on aluminum block
I suspect there's more going on here, like the OP is working
in an independent or dealer shop (nothing wrong with either, of course); has given a quote to the customer; so the budget is a bit tight; and can't a proper helicoil kit run some serious change? I was googling on the costs of kits and am not clear on that. Seems like these poor folks have found themselves in a morass here. I am interested in the outcome but fear someone is going to end up paying through the nose. OTOH, next time I bet this is a piece of cake. "Earle Horton" > wrote > That resistance thing is called "denial" in civilian > psychology courses, and > it is probably the most powerful force known to humans. Probably too often discussion of the phenomenon is applied to "emotions" (e.g. denying that Jane could have messed over Paul by sleeping with Paul's best friend yada). Fact is the technically inclined have to remember it applies to cold hard science, too. > You are quite right > that "how tight the head is held onto the engine" depends > on the thread > pitch. Finer threads have more leverage, and therefore > give you more > tightness for the same torque. > > Earle > > "Elle" > wrote >> > wrote >> > jim beam wrote: >> > >> >> > Well, do you think it would be possible to find a >> >> > 12mmx1.5 bolt to use >> >> > in its place? The bolt is 6 3/8 inches and the >> >> > threaded part is 1 >> >> > inch. The head is 14mm. I don't know where to look >> >> > for this kind of >> >> > thing... the best I could think of is maybe some >> >> > other >> >> > Honda uses a >> >> > similar bolt. >> >> >> >> best stick with the original bolt regardless. >> > >> > Is it possible that the bolt really was a 1.25 >> >> I would bet money the pitch is 1.25. The online factory >> service manual for this Accord says in two places it's a >> 1.25 pitch bolt. Plus, only one piece of evidence you >> have >> (your own measurement of the bolt pitch) suggests it's >> not >> 1.25. "Believe your indications." -- Rule from navy nuke >> program when analyzing problems with the plant. >> (Psychological studies show a basis for resisting >> believing >> one's indications. One has to 'resist the resistance,' >> blah >> blah when making electro-mechanical diagnoses.) >> >> > but was able to thread >> > into the 1.5 gauge anyway? >> >> Yup. Plus all that soft metal will rework itself without >> much difficulty, but not to the point where I would trust >> the holding power of the setup. >> >> Re-helicoil? I have never done a helicoil job, so I ask >> for >> my own edification as much as yours. The net's reports on >> the use of helicoil inserts to repair stripped threads >> certainly are promising. >> >> I would be checking the other, so far relatively >> untouched >> head bolts to see that they are 1.25 mm pitch. Get >> yourself >> to a True Value hardware or other store that has a bin of >> M12x1.25 etc. nuts, and confirm the pitch? >> >> > Of course, maybe their gauge was cross >> > threaded by another customer. >> >> > So what can be done about it jumping around? It'd be >> > nice >> > to get >> > something approximating the correct torque on it. >> >> Isn't "correct torque" rather tangential to the main >> concern, namely, how tight the head is held onto the >> engine? >> I personally would not focus on "correct torque" prior to >> getting the factory specified male and female threads >> into >> good repair. >> >> Just an amateur here. >> >> > > |
#24
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head thread repair on aluminum block
There is a product out there that is used on Nuclear subs, and industrial
equipment that will fix this problem if you can get to it. I've used it, sold it, and gave it to others. One time I fixed a Cummins diesel head crack with it, and it's still running..... I'ts expensive, and I haven't seen any around in awhile. Google for Belzona products. It's possible someone will give you the little that you need. MM^^ |
#25
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head thread repair on aluminum block
Elle wrote: > I suspect there's more going on here, like the OP is working > in an independent or dealer shop (nothing wrong with either, > of course); has given a quote to the customer; so the budget > is a bit tight; and can't a proper helicoil kit run some > serious change? I was googling on the costs of kits and am > not clear on that. Nope, just a backyard job that fell apart midstream (and had several cooks in the kitchen who I'm collectively speaking for). The helicoil kit cost $60 from Amazon. > Seems like these poor folks have found themselves in a > morass here. I am interested in the outcome but fear someone > is going to end up paying through the nose. In the end, the worst case is drop in a used motor. > OTOH, next time I bet this is a piece of cake. I hope there won't be a next time <G> |
#26
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head thread repair on aluminum block
Elle wrote: > Re-helicoil? I have never done a helicoil job, so I ask for > my own edification as much as yours. The net's reports on > the use of helicoil inserts to repair stripped threads > certainly are promising. Yeah, it's more a problem that the damage is already done and now what? > Isn't "correct torque" rather tangential to the main > concern, namely, how tight the head is held onto the engine? Yes. > I personally would not focus on "correct torque" prior to > getting the factory specified male and female threads into > good repair. If anyone has any suggestions on how to do that, I'm all ears. |
#27
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head thread repair on aluminum block
Earle Horton wrote: > That resistance thing is called "denial" in civilian psychology courses, and > it is probably the most powerful force known to humans. You are quite right > that "how tight the head is held onto the engine" depends on the thread > pitch. Finer threads have more leverage, and therefore give you more > tightness for the same torque. That makes no sense. If anything finer threads would lose more of the torque value to friction, the same friction that prevents a finer thread bolt from backing out under the same vibration that would back out a coarse thread bolt. So in the end you need a higher torque value to deliver the same clamping force. |
#28
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head thread repair on aluminum block
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#29
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head thread repair on aluminum block
> wrote
> Nope, just a backyard job that fell apart midstream (and > had several > cooks in the kitchen who I'm collectively speaking for). > The helicoil > kit cost $60 from Amazon. Great on all points. (I mean, better than having a customer breathing down your neck!) If you are feeling wealthy enough, I hope you'll confirm the 1.25 pitch size, buy another kit (Ebay?), and see how that works. Er, maybe wait until others who have done helicoil jobs chime in on how successful a "re-do" is first, though. Thanks for the update. I am sure someone down the line is going to learn from this. There really aren't too many reports of helicoil jobs on head bolt threads for the Honda newsgroups. |
#30
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head thread repair on aluminum block
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