Conventional oil hard to find?

On 25-03-2021 22:17 Frank > wrote:

>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2021 10:50:25 -0400, Frank posted for all of us to digest...
>>
>>>
>>> On 3/23/2021 10:42 AM, TimR wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, March 23, 2021 at 8:08:50 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then there are the fanatics that change synthetic oil every 5K miles or less,
>>>>> that change the tranny, differential fluid and antifreeze every 20K miles and
>>>>> only use the official dealer fluid.
>>>>
>>>> I have a friend who drives older vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> Every time he changes his oil, he also pulls the plug on the coolant
>>>> and the transmission fluid. He doesn't drop the pan or make an effort to
>>>> get all the fluids out, but he replaces the amount that did drain, and
>>>> figures about every third times he's replaced it.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to work for him, he gets a lot out of older vehicles.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Scotty Kilmer is fond of saying, "Oil is cheap, engines are expensive.
>>> Change your oil frequently."
>>
>> Sorry Frank, I don't consider him a reliable source. He has a point there but
>> his comments on other issues leave a lot to be desired. If he were the "Ruler
>> of the Cars" one would only be allowed to have a Toyota.
>>
>
> I cannot fault him for the comment on oil and learn a lot from him and
> he is entertaining. He does make good points that make sense like a
> turbocharged small engine is bound to wear out faster.
>
> He is a Toyota fan but points out some of their bad years. He expects a
> good car to last for hundreds of thousands of miles. I never had a car
> with much over one hundred thousand miles on it that was not dying of
> old age.
>
> He has a huge fan base and makes all his money off You Tube videos and
> no car or car part sponsors.

Scotty Kilmer's automotive repair & maintenance advice is good for young
kids (IMHO) but maybe not for wizened old farts like we are (& like he is).

The reason is that his advice is overly simplified (IMHO) such that Scotty
leaves out important detail we old farts know (& I'm sure he knows it too).

Mostly Scotty is in the right direction but he doesn't go into enough detail
to tell us much we didn't long ago learn way back in the sixties (IMHO).

On 3/25/2021 1:05 PM, mike wrote:

>
> (My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
> (My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)
>
> For me the motor oil buying choice is simple.
> 1. Price (about $1.50/qt for good dino juice, about twice that for synth)
> 2. Quality (any API that meets or exceeds the spec in the owners manual)
> 3. Viscosity (any SAE range that meets the spec in the owners manual)
>
> In practice you'd have to go out of your way to find an oil that doesn't
> meet the spec in the owners manual so it eventually boils down to price.
>
> Price changes over time but currently it's $2.50/qt for Costco fully
> synthetic (API SP, SAE 5W30, Dexos 1 gen 2) in sets of two five quart jugs.
>
> It's harder to find a spec for oil filters but like oil it matters less
> when
> you change often (defined by me as being about yearly which is ~12K miles).
>
> I've seen many oil filter teardowns so I avoid Fram and STP oil filters and
> I know that only a few manufacturers likely make most oil filters anyways
> and I do know that the Napa Gold (also Wix) are usually the best in those
> teardowns and that the Purloators at Toyota turn out to be reasonably good
> too (as do the AC Delcos).
>
> The Walmart K&N, SuperTech, Mobil 1 and Fram often come out differentially
> as do the Bosch at times.
>
> Mostly I look for 30um at 99% or even 20 micron if I can find it but not
> all
> boxes say and there's no spec that I know of for oil filters like there is
> for oil that help compare them (they're all good enough for my cars except
> maybe Fram).
>
> If you know of a spec that's printed on all oil filter boxes for comparison
> sake like there is for oil that would be helpful for sure.

Pretty much agree with your opinion. With a turbo, I'd go with
synthetic as they are subject to some high RPM.

No matter what you or I think or have experienced, there is always the
guy that says "my car runs a lot smoother or Brand Y over Brand X."

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike > wrote:

>On 25-03-2021 13:08 > wrote:
>
>> Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.
>
>I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
>Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.
>
>Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.
>
>What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
>Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).
>
>And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
>Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).
>
>(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
>(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)

I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:01:50 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest...

>
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike > wrote:
>
> >On 25-03-2021 13:08 > wrote:
> >
> >> Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.
> >
> >I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
> >Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.
> >
> >Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.
> >
> >What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
> >Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).
> >
> >And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
> >Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).
> >
> >(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
> >(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)
>
> I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
> a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
> same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

How dare you question Arlen?

--
Tekkie

On 25-03-2021 22:01 Jim Joyce > wrote:

>>(My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
>>(My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)
>
> I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
> a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
> same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.

That's a good question where the answer is that it's totally up to you.

The logic is no different than the logic you use for when to replace your
brake rotors or when you replace your tire valves or when you replace your
transmission filter or when you replace your tie rod ends (and on and on).

When to replace is up to you.

Why not replace the rotors or drums with every change of pads or shoes?
The logic is the rotors/drums last longer than one change of pads/shoes.

Why not replace the tire valves with every rotation or change of tires?
The logic is the tire valves can easily last longer than one set of wheels.

But it's totally up to you.

The logic is that the oil filter lasts longer than does one change of oil
just as brake rotors often last longer than one change of brake pads.

If you want to change them every time that's completely up to you to replace
them even though they're still well within spec when you changed them.

It's totally up to you.

On 3/25/2021 7:16 PM, mike wrote:
> On 25-03-2021 22:01 Jim Joyce > wrote:
>
>>> (My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
>>> (My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)
>>
>> I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil
>> twice
>> a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
>> same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and
>> expense.
>
> That's a good question where the answer is that it's totally up to you.
>
> The logic is no different than the logic you use for when to replace your
> brake rotors or when you replace your tire valves or when you replace your
> transmission filter or when you replace your tie rod ends (and on and on).
>
> When to replace is up to you.
>
> Why not replace the rotors or drums with every change of pads or shoes?
> The logic is the rotors/drums last longer than one change of pads/shoes.
>
> Why not replace the tire valves with every rotation or change of tires?
> The logic is the tire valves can easily last longer than one set of wheels.
>
> But it's totally up to you.
>
> The logic is that the oil filter lasts longer than does one change of oil
> just as brake rotors often last longer than one change of brake pads.
>
> If you want to change them every time that's completely up to you to
> replace
> them even though they're still well within spec when you changed them.
>
> It's totally up to you.

Of course it is up to you. I can see condition and measure wear on
rotors when changing pads so it is an easy decision.

Can you see and measure how well the filter is working? Given it is an
integral part of the lubrication system, has a cost of $10, and is
helping protect a $5000+ engine, I change it every time. Cheap
insurance and peace of mind.

On 3/25/2021 3:01 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike > wrote:
>
>> On 25-03-2021 13:08 > wrote:
>>
>>> Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.
>>
>> I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
>> Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.
>>
>> Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.
>>
>> What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
>> Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).
>>
>> And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
>> Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).
>>
>> (My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
>> (My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)
>
> I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
> a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
> same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.
>

It's vestigial from the 1950s when oil and labor were cheap
and filters were expensive. No good reason now, certainly
not any technical reason. I changed to oil with new filter
every 3K miles in the 1970s.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 03/25/2021 12:26 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 3/25/2021 1:05 PM, mike wrote:
>
>>
>> (My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
>> (My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)
>>
>> For me the motor oil buying choice is simple.
>> 1. Price (about $1.50/qt for good dino juice, about twice that for synth)
>> 2. Quality (any API that meets or exceeds the spec in the owners manual)
>> 3. Viscosity (any SAE range that meets the spec in the owners manual)
>>
>> In practice you'd have to go out of your way to find an oil that doesn't
>> meet the spec in the owners manual so it eventually boils down to price.
>>
>> Price changes over time but currently it's $2.50/qt for Costco fully
>> synthetic (API SP, SAE 5W30, Dexos 1 gen 2) in sets of two five quart
>> jugs.
>>
>> It's harder to find a spec for oil filters but like oil it matters
>> less when
>> you change often (defined by me as being about yearly which is ~12K
>> miles).
>>
>> I've seen many oil filter teardowns so I avoid Fram and STP oil
>> filters and
>> I know that only a few manufacturers likely make most oil filters anyways
>> and I do know that the Napa Gold (also Wix) are usually the best in those
>> teardowns and that the Purloators at Toyota turn out to be reasonably
>> good
>> too (as do the AC Delcos).
>>
>> The Walmart K&N, SuperTech, Mobil 1 and Fram often come out
>> differentially
>> as do the Bosch at times.
>>
>> Mostly I look for 30um at 99% or even 20 micron if I can find it but
>> not all
>> boxes say and there's no spec that I know of for oil filters like
>> there is
>> for oil that help compare them (they're all good enough for my cars
>> except
>> maybe Fram).
>>
>> If you know of a spec that's printed on all oil filter boxes for
>> comparison
>> sake like there is for oil that would be helpful for sure.
>
> Pretty much agree with your opinion. With a turbo, I'd go with
> synthetic as they are subject to some high RPM.
>
> No matter what you or I think or have experienced, there is always the
> guy that says "my car runs a lot smoother or Brand Y over Brand X."

In the motorcycle forums the usual reply is 'Sweet Jesus! Another
frigging oil thread!'

On 03/25/2021 02:35 PM, Tekkie� wrote:
>
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:01:50 -0500, Jim Joyce posted for all of us to digest...
>
>>
>> On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 22:35:05 +0530, mike > wrote:
>>
>>> On 25-03-2021 13:08 > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Once it gets in the bottle it is the same as far as API is concerned.
>>>
>>> I agree with you that oil is a commodity which people obsess about.
>>> Mostly because advertisers want to give people something to obsess about.
>>>
>>> Every brand is different but those differences won't matter much to us.
>>>
>>> What matters mostly is how often we change it (IMHO).
>>> Which itself matters mostly based on our weather & driving patterns (IMHO).
>>>
>>> And even that is subject to a lot of personal opinion (IMHO).
>>> Everyone makes their own assessment of what to use & when to change (IMHO).
>>>
>>> (My personal opinion is twice a year for dino & once a year for synth).
>>> (My personal opinion is a filter change roughly about once a year.)
>>
>> I'm curious. If you're going to go to the trouble of changing the oil twice
>> a year, why not change the filter twice a year, as in, doing both at the
>> same time? It seems like only a small increment of extra work and expense.
>
> How dare you question Arlen?
>

I find it much easier to filter him...

On Thu, 25 Mar 2021 20:49:56 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


>> No matter what you or I think or have experienced, there is always the
>> guy that says "my car runs a lot smoother or Brand Y over Brand X."
>
> In the motorcycle forums the usual reply is 'Sweet Jesus! Another
> frigging oil thread!'

Here I just keep saying, "****, yet more senile gossip"!