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#22
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78spwhines again..
Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: > Eeyore typed this: > > Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: > >> Eeyore at typed this: > >>> Kurt Lochner wrote: > >>>> AKA sniveled ineptly: > >>>>> > >>>>> So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an > >>>>> average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership > >>>>> and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles, > >>>>> I started checking out the vehicles on the lot. > >>> > >>> I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a > >>> staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car > >>> that could happily tootle along at 80-90mph, nip past obstructive > >>> drivers in old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles > >>> on a gallon of diesel. > >>> http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52 > >>> > >>> OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg ! > >>> > >>> Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an > >>> irrational fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine design > >>> is making even SPORTY diesels possible. They have exceptional torque > >>> which most drivers like too. > >> > >> How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit? > > > > I have NO idea. > > That's rather important for people living in my area. > > > > How well do YOU work at -30 F ( -34C) ? > > Not well, which is why I need a reliable car at that temperature. In the > past, Diesels have not proven reliable in the Winter. I've never experienced such temps but the Swedes for example use block warmers. I imagine you can have a fuel tank warmer too. Graham |
#23
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78spwhines again..
Eeyore wrote:
> > Kurt Lochner wrote: > > > AKA sniveled ineptly: > > > > > >The new gas mileage standards mandated > > >by the recently passed energy legislation > > >defy the laws of physics.. > > > > leotard, you don't know any physics to speak of.. > >The laws of physics certainly do tend to say that expecting >a 7 litre V-8 (or even say a more humble 4 litre) to do 35 mpg >is wishful thinking [..] Yeah, I understand that from my thermo classes (eg Carnot) but I doubt that your hypothetical 7L engine is expected to do that in the first place, as the CAFE standards are averaged across the manufacturers classes and models.. --Still, I 'grew up' driving an M-B 200D, sans block heater.. |
#24
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78sp whines again..
In News ,, Eeyore at
, typed this: > Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: > >> Eeyore typed this: >>> Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: >>>> Eeyore at typed this: >>>>> Kurt Lochner wrote: >>>>>> AKA sniveled ineptly: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an >>>>>>> average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership >>>>>>> and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles, >>>>>>> I started checking out the vehicles on the lot. >>>>> >>>>> I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a >>>>> staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car >>>>> that could happily tootle along at 80-90mph, nip past obstructive >>>>> drivers in old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles >>>>> on a gallon of diesel. >>>>> http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52 >>>>> >>>>> OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg ! >>>>> >>>>> Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an >>>>> irrational fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine >>>>> design is making even SPORTY diesels possible. They have >>>>> exceptional torque which most drivers like too. >>>> >>>> How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit? >>> >>> I have NO idea. >> >> That's rather important for people living in my area. >> >> >>> How well do YOU work at -30 F ( -34C) ? >> >> Not well, which is why I need a reliable car at that temperature. >> In the past, Diesels have not proven reliable in the Winter. > > I've never experienced such temps but the Swedes for example use block > warmers. I imagine you can have a fuel tank warmer too. > > Graham Why would I go to that problem and added energy expense/expenditure when I can just buy a reliable non-Diesel car? -- "A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take away everything you have." Thomas Jefferson |
#25
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78sp whines again..
Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote:
> In News ,, Eeyore at > , typed this: > > >>Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: >> >> >>>Eeyore typed this: >>> >>>>Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: >>>> >>>>>Eeyore at typed this: >>>>> >>>>>>Kurt Lochner wrote: >>>>>> AKA sniveled ineptly: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an >>>>>>>>average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership >>>>>>>>and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles, >>>>>>>>I started checking out the vehicles on the lot. >>>>>> >>>>>>I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a >>>>>>staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car >>>>>>that could happily tootle along at 80-90mph, nip past obstructive >>>>>>drivers in old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles >>>>>>on a gallon of diesel. >>>>>>http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52 >>>>>> >>>>>>OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg ! >>>>>> >>>>>>Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an >>>>>>irrational fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine >>>>>>design is making even SPORTY diesels possible. They have >>>>>>exceptional torque which most drivers like too. >>>>> >>>>>How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit? >>>> >>>>I have NO idea. >>> >>>That's rather important for people living in my area. >>> >>> >>> >>>>How well do YOU work at -30 F ( -34C) ? >>> >>>Not well, which is why I need a reliable car at that temperature. >>>In the past, Diesels have not proven reliable in the Winter. >> >>I've never experienced such temps but the Swedes for example use block >>warmers. I imagine you can have a fuel tank warmer too. >> >>Graham > > > Why would I go to that problem and added energy expense/expenditure when I > can just buy a reliable non-Diesel car? > > Because Graham is one of those arrogant Brits that has all the right answers, and anyone that disagrees with him is an idiot. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
#26
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78sp whines again..
In News ,, Scott in SoCal at
, typed this: > On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 09:37:15 -0500, "Scruffy McScruffovitch" > > wrote: > >>>> How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit? >>> >>> I have NO idea. >> >> That's rather important for people living in my area. > > OTOH, people living in my area couldn't care less. I'm not trying to convince people in your area to buy, or to not buy a specific type of car. > >>> How well do YOU work at -30 F ( -34C) ? >> >> Not well, which is why I need a reliable car at that temperature. >> In the past, Diesels have not proven reliable in the Winter. > > Ever watch that show Ice Road Truckers? They never shut thier engines > off lest they freeze up. Yeah... I bet that all green, warm and fuzzy, huh? -- "A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take away everything you have." Thomas Jefferson |
#27
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78sp whines again..
Scott in SoCal wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 14:33:41 +0000, Eeyore > > wrote: > > >>In some European countries diesel cars represent the majority of new car >>sales. Their economy is undeniable. Their performance is daily improving. > > > In the USA, diesel fuel costs more than gasoline. This wasn't always > the case, which accounts for the initial surge of popularity for > diesel-powered cars in the US back during the mid 1970s. Nowadays, > diesel costs even more than premium gasoline, so where's the advantage > of a diesel-powered car? > > Also, if diesel fuel is so superior, how come nobody makes a > DIESEL-electric hybrid? I never understood that myself, as that would appear to be the logical blending of technologies. As it is, a VW TDI gets better mileage than most hybrids, so if I were to buy a new car I'd give it serious consideration. It never gets much below freezing where I live though. nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
#28
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78spwhines again..
Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: > Eeyore at typed this: > > Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: > >> Eeyore typed this: > >>> Scruffy McScruffovitch wrote: > >>>> Eeyore at typed this: > >>>>> Kurt Lochner wrote: > >>>>>> AKA sniveled ineptly: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So I began to wonder what vehicle would get an > >>>>>>> average of 35 mpg. Since I was at a Toyota dealership > >>>>>>> and Toyota has been a leader in fuel efficient vehicles, > >>>>>>> I started checking out the vehicles on the lot. > >>>>> > >>>>> I'll make a very simple statement: The Toyota Yaris D-4D is a > >>>>> staggeringly good little car.... I have never driven another car > >>>>> that could happily tootle along at 80-90mph, nip past obstructive > >>>>> drivers in old-shape Merc CL500 coupes, and still take me 63 miles > >>>>> on a gallon of diesel. > >>>>> http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/road_tests/?id=52 > >>>>> > >>>>> OK that's a UK gallon but it's still 50.4 US mpg ! > >>>>> > >>>>> Diesel engines are a large part of the answer. The USA has an > >>>>> irrational fear of them though. Modern European diesel engine > >>>>> design is making even SPORTY diesels possible. They have > >>>>> exceptional torque which most drivers like too. > >>>> > >>>> How well do they operate at -30 degrees Fahrenheit? > >>> > >>> I have NO idea. > >> > >> That's rather important for people living in my area. > >> > >> > >>> How well do YOU work at -30 F ( -34C) ? > >> > >> Not well, which is why I need a reliable car at that temperature. > >> In the past, Diesels have not proven reliable in the Winter. > > > > I've never experienced such temps but the Swedes for example use block > > warmers. I imagine you can have a fuel tank warmer too. > > > > Graham > > Why would I go to that problem and added energy expense/expenditure when I > can just buy a reliable non-Diesel car? What kind of engine oil works right from -34C ? Graham |
#29
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78spwhines again..
Scott in SoCal wrote: > Eeyore wrote: > > >In some European countries diesel cars represent the majority of new car > >sales. Their economy is undeniable. Their performance is daily improving. > > In the USA, diesel fuel costs more than gasoline. This wasn't always > the case, which accounts for the initial surge of popularity for > diesel-powered cars in the US back during the mid 1970s. Nowadays, > diesel costs even more than premium gasoline, so where's the advantage > of a diesel-powered car? Well .. diesel costs a fraction more than gasoline here too but the added economy more than pays for the difference. > Also, if diesel fuel is so superior, how come nobody makes a > DIESEL-electric hybrid? Almost certainly because they are currently targeted mainly at the US market where diesel is disliked. You're correct though, a hybrid diesel would make far more sense than using a gasoline engine. I imagine you could see true 100 mpg figures. Graham |
#30
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Coping With The New CAFÉ Standards, leotard78spwhines again..
Scott in SoCal wrote: > Nate Nagel wrote: > >Scott in SoCal wrote: > > >> Also, if diesel fuel is so superior, how come nobody makes a > >> DIESEL-electric hybrid? > > > >I never understood that myself, as that would appear to be the logical > >blending of technologies. > > It's probably because American car buyers still HATE diesel engines. > Those old memories of soot and glow plugs from the 70s still linger. Soot from diesels is caused by over-fuelling probably associated most with older primitive mechanical fuel injection systems. I don't know what they've done recently about the 'glow plugs' but the last time I hired a diesel van I was told you don't have to wait at all before cranking. Sadly, diesel engines still do clatter somewhat compared to gasoline ones but even this is getting better. Graham |
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