Honda V6 engines and synthetic oil

wrote:
> On Sun, 06 May 2007 14:57:51 -0700, jim beam
> > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>>> note the language "such as". note "base stocks" - plural. it doesn't
>>>> say they /actually/ use pao as their base stock - they say "base stocks"
>>>> plural and their msds filings prove pao is not their base. impurities
>>>> are a totally different subject - muddying the water in fact.
>>> I can see you believe in conspiracies. Exxon will not divulge exact
>>> numbers for reasons other than what you want us to believe. The
>>> below is what YOU want us to believe.
>>>
>>> "10w-30 mobil1 is only 5% "synthetic"
>> dude, read the msds. it's a legal filing. it says 5% pao. don't you
>> want to "believe" that?
>
> It does not say PAO's or poly alpha olefins are 5%.
> It says the POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE, POLYOL is 5%
>
> The below, about Exxon product number 481176-00 MOBIL 1 10W-30
> and its MSDS being #194095 is quoted from this link:
> http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1537471&page=2
>
> Begin quote:
> On any MSDS, the section about the composition is to disclose those
> components with known harmful effects to people. The polyalphaolefins
> are NOT hazardous to people, so are not listed.
>
> The POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE is a cyclic organic compound
> with nitrogen and oxygen added. Think ammonia blended in with the oil,
> not the stuff you want to drink with cigars.

eh? "ofefin" is a typo. look it up.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/htmlgen?CHEM

they mean olefin. as in polyolefin. and where the hell does ammonia
come into it??? an amine is not ammonia. just like table salt is not
chlorine.

>> It does not say PAO's or poly alpha olefins are 5%.
>> It says the POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE, POLYOL is 5%
>>
>> The below, about Exxon product number 481176-00 MOBIL 1 10W-30
>> and its MSDS being #194095 is quoted from this link:
>> http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1537471&page=2
>>
>> Begin quote:
>> On any MSDS, the section about the composition is to disclose those
>> components with known harmful effects to people. The polyalphaolefins
>> are NOT hazardous to people, so are not listed.
>>
>> The POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE is a cyclic organic compound
>> with nitrogen and oxygen added. Think ammonia blended in with the oil,
>> not the stuff you want to drink with cigars.
>
>eh? "ofefin" is a typo. look it up.

Does it matter?
>
>http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/htmlgen?CHEM
>
>they mean olefin. as in polyolefin. and where the hell does ammonia
>come into it??? an amine is not ammonia. just like table salt is not
>chlorine.

It's a quote. Would you like me to modify the quote?

The real substance of this thread is you are reading the msds wrong.
POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE is not poly alpha olefin

wrote:
>>> It does not say PAO's or poly alpha olefins are 5%.
>>> It says the POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE, POLYOL is 5%
>>>
>>> The below, about Exxon product number 481176-00 MOBIL 1 10W-30
>>> and its MSDS being #194095 is quoted from this link:
>>> http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1537471&page=2
>>>
>>> Begin quote:
>>> On any MSDS, the section about the composition is to disclose those
>>> components with known harmful effects to people. The polyalphaolefins
>>> are NOT hazardous to people, so are not listed.
>>>
>>> The POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE is a cyclic organic compound
>>> with nitrogen and oxygen added. Think ammonia blended in with the oil,
>>> not the stuff you want to drink with cigars.
>> eh? "ofefin" is a typo. look it up.
>
> Does it matter?

it matters in that you didn't understand that it was a typo!

>> http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/htmlgen?CHEM
>>
>> they mean olefin. as in polyolefin. and where the hell does ammonia
>> come into it??? an amine is not ammonia. just like table salt is not
>> chlorine.
>
> It's a quote. Would you like me to modify the quote?

no, i want you to find a quote that is authoritative, not from some
knuckle-head on a car forum that thinks an amine is the same as ammonia!

>
> The real substance of this thread is you are reading the msds wrong.
> POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE is not poly alpha olefin

no, it's a succinimide amine of polyolefin. the polyolefin is the
backbone of the chemical. the other stuff is just fluff that affects
molecular weight and perhaps surface adsorption properties. the "alpha"
is just morphology. in the absence of iupac nomenclature, you can't
say for sure /what/ it is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUPAC_n...anic_chemistry

> > The real substance of this thread is you are reading the msds wrong.
> > POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE is not poly alpha olefin
>
> no, it's a succinimide amine of polyolefin. the polyolefin is the
> backbone of the chemical. the other stuff is just fluff that affects
> molecular weight and perhaps surface adsorption properties. the "alpha"
> is just morphology. in the absence of iupac nomenclature, you can't
> say for sure /what/ it is.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IUPAC_n...anic_chemistry

Indeed, anyone 'skilled in the art' would recognize this as a misprint of
'polyolefin'.

Compounds of this sort are usually employed as dispersants or emulsifiers.

On Mon, 07 May 2007 06:01:08 -0700, jim beam
> wrote:

wrote:
>>>> It does not say PAO's or poly alpha olefins are 5%.
>>>> It says the POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE, POLYOL is 5%

>>> they mean olefin. as in polyolefin. and where the hell does ammonia
>>> come into it??? an amine is not ammonia. just like table salt is not
>>> chlorine.

They mean POLYOFEFIN

POLYOFEFIN exists. See links below

http://www.suitesupply.com/Replaceme...WIN-744.01.htm

http://terrauniversal.com/products/c...rcarts08.shtml

http://www.sgpweb.com/products/products.asp

wrote:
> On Mon, 07 May 2007 06:01:08 -0700, jim beam
> > wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>>>> It does not say PAO's or poly alpha olefins are 5%.
>>>>> It says the POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE, POLYOL is 5%
>
>>>> they mean olefin. as in polyolefin. and where the hell does ammonia
>>>> come into it??? an amine is not ammonia. just like table salt is not
>>>> chlorine.
>
> They mean POLYOFEFIN
>
> POLYOFEFIN exists. See links below
>
> http://www.suitesupply.com/Replaceme...WIN-744.01.htm
>
> http://terrauniversal.com/products/c...rcarts08.shtml
>
> http://www.sgpweb.com/products/products.asp

let me get this straight:- you want to /ignore/ federal govt chemical
compound database info in favor of typos from cheap chinese manufactured
goods? ok, time to move along...

>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> It does not say PAO's or poly alpha olefins are 5%.
>>>>>> It says the POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE, POLYOL is 5%
>>
>>>>> they mean olefin. as in polyolefin. and where the hell does ammonia
>>>>> come into it??? an amine is not ammonia. just like table salt is not
>>>>> chlorine.
>>
>> They mean POLYOFEFIN
>>
>> POLYOFEFIN exists. See links below
>>
>> http://www.suitesupply.com/Replaceme...WIN-744.01.htm
>>
>> http://terrauniversal.com/products/c...rcarts08.shtml
>>
>> http://www.sgpweb.com/products/products.asp
>
>let me get this straight:- you want to /ignore/ federal govt chemical
>compound database info in favor of typos from cheap chinese manufactured
>goods? ok, time to move along...

Let's get this starlight. You won't admit that Mobil 1 is primarily
a PAO based oil. Instead all you want to do is argue about a
supposed typo in order to deflect the exposure of your mistaken
interpretation of a msds.

wrote in :

>
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> It does not say PAO's or poly alpha olefins are 5%.
>>>>>>> It says the POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE, POLYOL is 5%
>>>
>>>>>> they mean olefin. as in polyolefin. and where the hell does
>>>>>> ammonia come into it??? an amine is not ammonia. just like
>>>>>> table salt is not chlorine.
>>>
>>> They mean POLYOFEFIN
>>>
>>> POLYOFEFIN exists. See links below
>>>
>>> http://www.suitesupply.com/Replaceme...fin-Wheel-5.WI
>>> N-744.01.htm
>>>
>>> http://terrauniversal.com/products/c...wafercarts08.s
>>> html
>>>
>>> http://www.sgpweb.com/products/products.asp
>>
>>let me get this straight:- you want to /ignore/ federal govt chemical
>>compound database info in favor of typos from cheap chinese
>>manufactured goods? ok, time to move along...
>
> Let's get this starlight. You won't admit that Mobil 1 is primarily
> a PAO based oil. Instead all you want to do is argue about a
> supposed typo in order to deflect the exposure of your mistaken
> interpretation of a msds.
>


jim may be right here about the typos. Take a look closer to the bottom of
the first link you gave, where it says "Caster Specifications". There I
find the notation: "Wheel Type: Polyolefin".

When I Google for "polyofefin" or "ofefin", I find very, very little,
mostly automated "on-the-fly" pages that result from Google's deals with
advertisers.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

wrote:
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> It does not say PAO's or poly alpha olefins are 5%.
>>>>>>> It says the POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE, POLYOL is 5%
>>>>>> they mean olefin. as in polyolefin. and where the hell does ammonia
>>>>>> come into it??? an amine is not ammonia. just like table salt is not
>>>>>> chlorine.
>>> They mean POLYOFEFIN
>>>
>>> POLYOFEFIN exists. See links below
>>>
>>> http://www.suitesupply.com/Replaceme...WIN-744.01.htm
>>>
>>> http://terrauniversal.com/products/c...rcarts08.shtml
>>>
>>> http://www.sgpweb.com/products/products.asp
>> let me get this straight:- you want to /ignore/ federal govt chemical
>> compound database info in favor of typos from cheap chinese manufactured
>> goods? ok, time to move along...
>
> Let's get this starlight. You won't admit that Mobil 1 is primarily
> a PAO based oil.

with respect, there's /nothing/ on the mobil web site that tells you
that. they tell you it /could/ be, but not that it is. thats the legal
fine line. and the msds confirms it - if you know a little chemistry
and can spell.

> Instead all you want to do is argue about a
> supposed typo in order to deflect the exposure of your mistaken
> interpretation of a msds.

if you can cite any authoritative analysis on this subject, i'd love to
see it - appeals to "belief" don't work.

"jim beam" > wrote in message
t...
> wrote:
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> It does not say PAO's or poly alpha olefins are 5%.
>>>>>>>> It says the POLYOFEFIN POLYAMINE SUCCINIMIDE, POLYOL is 5%
>>>>>>> they mean olefin. as in polyolefin. and where the hell does
>>>>>>> ammonia
>>>>>>> come into it??? an amine is not ammonia. just like table salt is
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> chlorine.
>>>> They mean POLYOFEFIN
>>>>
>>>> POLYOFEFIN exists. See links below
>>>>
>>>> http://www.suitesupply.com/Replaceme...WIN-744.01.htm
>>>>
>>>> http://terrauniversal.com/products/c...rcarts08.shtml
>>>>
>>>> http://www.sgpweb.com/products/products.asp
>>> let me get this straight:- you want to /ignore/ federal govt chemical
>>> compound database info in favor of typos from cheap chinese manufactured
>>> goods? ok, time to move along...
>>
>> Let's get this starlight. You won't admit that Mobil 1 is primarily
>> a PAO based oil.
>
> with respect, there's /nothing/ on the mobil web site that tells you
> that. they tell you it /could/ be, but not that it is. thats the legal
> fine line. and the msds confirms it - if you know a little chemistry
> and can spell.

Sure there is, try this :
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...formance_FAQs2



Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology a fully synthetic motor oil?

Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's
specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn uses
high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a
proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn viscosity grade
uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in
order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application.






>
>> Instead all you want to do is argue about a
>> supposed typo in order to deflect the exposure of your mistaken
>> interpretation of a msds.
>
> if you can cite any authoritative analysis on this subject, i'd love to
> see it - appeals to "belief" don't work.