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OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires



 
 
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  #31  
Old September 6th 07, 02:32 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.tech
*
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Posts: 805
Default OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <5xJDi.16505$453.7660@trndny02>...
> On Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:45:27 -0500, * wrote:
>


> >
> > You asked for advice.
> >
> > I gave you advice based on 40 years' experience.

>
>
> I've been farting around with tires for 30 years,
>



Do you have a tire dynamometer?

Is it static or dynamic?

I currently own a static tire dyno, and I'm designing and building a
dynamic one.

Do you even know what a tire dyno is?

I've been working with racing tires for over 40 years, and I currently use
a tire dyno and a shock absorber dyno on a daily basis.

Since "....farting around...." with tires for 30 years has given you so
much insight and technical knowledge, please.......

Tell me about your tire's actual footprint at different inflations.

Tell me about your tire's spring rate at different inflations.

Tell me about your tire's sidewall stiffness ratings.

Can't do it without a tire dyno, and I seriously doubt if you have
one.....and, your daily tire kick doesn't even come close.


> and using different
> sizes for different effects for 20.
>


Tell me about the "effects" you have obtained by using different tire
sizes. Stagger? Crossweight? Corner weights? Etc.?

What sort of circumference variances are you talking about?



> I make sure they fit the rims correctly.


With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim
incorrectly?


> I try to make sure they're within a certain percentage of OEM spec.
>



Please explain how you come up with "....a certain percentage of OEM
spec.".....

.......and, exactly what percentage is acceptable to you?

I'm sure others would be interested in hearing how they can apply your
hard-earned knowledge to their own cars.

I REALLY want to hear about that, too!




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  #32  
Old September 7th 07, 03:28 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.tech
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 616
Default OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:07:04 -0500, * wrote:

> You are, actually, seeking validation of your unconventional and
> off-the-wall ideas - such as running tires at maximum load inflations -
> which doesn't seem to be forthcoming.


Yup. But I'm more intersted in the tire size on this car than tire
inflation. I sometimes carry heavy loads with this car, and would rather
just leave the tires close to max pressure than
filling/deflating/filling/deflating etc. Like I said, I've been doing it a
long time with no ill effects.


>
> Some people tire quickly of giving honest advice, only to have it
> summarily rejected.....explaining why you are receiving so little
> "insight" now.



I don't 'summarily reject' anything. I take everything into account. I am
going to let a few pounds out and see if it makes a difference once I get
a free minute...


  #33  
Old September 7th 07, 03:37 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.tech
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 616
Default OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires

On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote:

>> I make sure they fit the rims correctly.

>
> With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim
> incorrectly?



And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?!



Toyo Proxes T1r
195/45R14
15Lbs.
280 Treadwear
MP
V Rated
Tread Depth 10
Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




Toyo Proxes Tpt
185/60R14
16Lbs.
Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second tire,
the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster.

If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with my
tires!!!

So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels off
my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the
sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim...


  #34  
Old September 7th 07, 03:50 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.tech
Steve W.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 237
Default OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires

Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote:
>
>>> I make sure they fit the rims correctly.

>> With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim
>> incorrectly?

>
>
> And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?!
>
>
>
> Toyo Proxes T1r
> 195/45R14
> 15Lbs.
> 280 Treadwear
> MP
> V Rated
> Tread Depth 10
> Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>
>
> Toyo Proxes Tpt
> 185/60R14
> 16Lbs.
> Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>
> If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second tire,
> the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster.
>
> If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with my
> tires!!!
>
> So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels off
> my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the
> sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim...
>
>


Nope. They would both fit on the 6.5" rims you have. And the only real
problem with running them on the 5.5 would be tread wear due to the
narrow rim..
However I wouldn't want to run the 185/60 on the wider rim. No sidewall
protection and you would probably have problems with the bead staying
seated as well.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York
  #35  
Old September 7th 07, 02:18 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.tech
*
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires



Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <HP2Ei.16866$453.2177@trndny02>...
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote:
>
> >> I make sure they fit the rims correctly.

> >
> > With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim
> > incorrectly?

>
>
> And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?!
>
>
>
> Toyo Proxes T1r
> 195/45R14
> 15Lbs.
> 280 Treadwear
> MP
> V Rated
> Tread Depth 10
> Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>
>
> Toyo Proxes Tpt
> 185/60R14
> 16Lbs.
> Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>
> If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second tire,
> the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster.
>
> If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with my
> tires!!!
>
> So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels

off
> my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the
> sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim...
>
>
>



Well, so much for the integrity/validity of your "PLONK!"


Your statement was, "I make sure they fit the rims correctly.".......

.........NOT, "I make sure the correct-width rims have been selected for
use."

From your original statement, one would have to assume that you had already
chosen the correct rims, and that you were saying, "I make sure they fit
the rims (that I have selected) correctly."


Now, could you please answer the rest of the questions I asked?

I'm REALLY curious about the part where you say, "I've been farting around
with tires for 30 years, and using different sizes for different effects
for 20."

As I asked before, exactly what sort of "effects" have you
experienced/observed using different tire sizes?

And, I repeat......

Since "....farting around...." with tires for 30 years has given you so
much insight and technical knowledge, please.......

Tell me about your tire's actual footprint at different inflations.

Tell me about your tire's spring rate at different inflations.

Tell me about your tire's sidewall stiffness ratings.

Can't do it without a tire dyno, and I seriously doubt if you have
one.....and, your daily tire kick doesn't even come close.


> and using different
> sizes for different effects for 20.
>


Tell me about the "effects" you have obtained by using different tire
sizes. Stagger? Crossweight? Corner weights? Etc.?

What sort of circumference variances are you talking about?


Now, don't go and "PLONK!" me, again.......

We all now know that your "PLONK!" statements aren't worth the electrons
used to display them.


  #36  
Old September 7th 07, 02:55 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.tech
*
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires



Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <HP2Ei.16866$453.2177@trndny02>...
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote:
>
> >> I make sure they fit the rims correctly.

> >
> > With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim
> > incorrectly?

>
>
> And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?!
>
>
>
> Toyo Proxes T1r
> 195/45R14
> 15Lbs.
> 280 Treadwear
> MP
> V Rated
> Tread Depth 10
> Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>
>
> Toyo Proxes Tpt
> 185/60R14
> 16Lbs.
> Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>
>
> If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second tire,
> the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster.
>
> If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with my
> tires!!!
>
> So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels

off
> my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the
> sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim...
>
>
>




In spite of all your horse schidt, here is one undeniable fact......


A tire supporting a 500 pound load will have a footprint of 20
square-inches at an inflation pressure of 25 p.s.i. and a footprint of 12.5
square-inches at 40 p.s.i. inflation. That's simple high school math and
physics.

The ONLY differences between the footprints of a "narrow" tire versus a
"wide" tire is the SHAPE of the footprint. They BOTH require the same-sized
footprint to support the same load at the same inflation pressures.

With the 20 square-inch example, a ten-inch-wide tread will have a
footprint that is ten-inches wide by two-inches long while a five-inch
tread would have a footprint that is five-inches wide by four-inches long.

With 25 pounds of air pressure, you need 20 square-inches to support 500
pounds.....one way or another.

By running your tires at maximum inflation, you are running the car at 62.5
percent of the tire footprint that the car manufacturer has designed the
suspension to work with.



  #37  
Old September 8th 07, 12:13 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.tech
E Meyer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 267
Default OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires




On 9/7/07 8:55 AM, in article 01c7f156$151493a0$f192c3d8@race, "*"
> wrote:

>
>
> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article <HP2Ei.16866$453.2177@trndny02>...
>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote:
>>
>>>> I make sure they fit the rims correctly.
>>>
>>> With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim
>>> incorrectly?

>>
>>
>> And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?!
>>
>>
>>
>> Toyo Proxes T1r
>> 195/45R14
>> 15Lbs.
>> 280 Treadwear
>> MP
>> V Rated
>> Tread Depth 10
>> Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Toyo Proxes Tpt
>> 185/60R14
>> 16Lbs.
>> Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>
>>
>> If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second tire,
>> the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster.
>>
>> If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with my
>> tires!!!
>>
>> So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels

> off
>> my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the
>> sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim...
>>
>>
>>

>
>
>
> In spite of all your horse schidt, here is one undeniable fact......
>
>
> A tire supporting a 500 pound load will have a footprint of 20
> square-inches at an inflation pressure of 25 p.s.i. and a footprint of 12.5
> square-inches at 40 p.s.i. inflation. That's simple high school math and
> physics.
>
> The ONLY differences between the footprints of a "narrow" tire versus a
> "wide" tire is the SHAPE of the footprint. They BOTH require the same-sized
> footprint to support the same load at the same inflation pressures.
>
> With the 20 square-inch example, a ten-inch-wide tread will have a
> footprint that is ten-inches wide by two-inches long while a five-inch
> tread would have a footprint that is five-inches wide by four-inches long.
>
> With 25 pounds of air pressure, you need 20 square-inches to support 500
> pounds.....one way or another.
>
> By running your tires at maximum inflation, you are running the car at 62.5
> percent of the tire footprint that the car manufacturer has designed the
> suspension to work with.
>
>
>


Undeniable fact?? Usually the stuff you put out is more or less correct
(bravado and SOB-ness not withstanding), but I need to see a legit reference
for this one.

  #38  
Old September 8th 07, 01:20 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.tech
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 616
Default OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 23:13:59 +0000, E Meyer wrote:

>
>
>
> On 9/7/07 8:55 AM, in article 01c7f156$151493a0$f192c3d8@race, "*"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/ wrote in article
>> <HP2Ei.16866$453.2177@trndny02>...
>>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 08:32:34 -0500, * wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I make sure they fit the rims correctly.
>>>>
>>>> With today's tire and rim technology, how can a 14" tire fit a 14" rim
>>>> incorrectly?
>>>
>>>
>>> And you're telling me you're an 'expert?!?!?!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Toyo Proxes T1r
>>> 195/45R14
>>> 15Lbs.
>>> 280 Treadwear
>>> MP
>>> V Rated
>>> Tread Depth 10
>>> Rim Width (Min/Max) 6 - 7.5
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Toyo Proxes Tpt
>>> 185/60R14
>>> 16Lbs.
>>> Rim Width (Min/Max) 5 - 6.5
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you tried to put the first tire on the rim meant for the second
>>> tire, the sidewall would blowout. A real recipe for disaster.
>>>
>>> If you don't know this, then NO WAY are you telling me what to do with
>>> my tires!!!
>>>
>>> So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels

>> off
>>> my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the
>>> sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

>>
>>
>> In spite of all your horse schidt, here is one undeniable fact......
>>
>>
>> A tire supporting a 500 pound load will have a footprint of 20
>> square-inches at an inflation pressure of 25 p.s.i. and a footprint of
>> 12.5 square-inches at 40 p.s.i. inflation. That's simple high school
>> math and physics.
>>
>> The ONLY differences between the footprints of a "narrow" tire versus a
>> "wide" tire is the SHAPE of the footprint. They BOTH require the
>> same-sized footprint to support the same load at the same inflation
>> pressures.
>>
>> With the 20 square-inch example, a ten-inch-wide tread will have a
>> footprint that is ten-inches wide by two-inches long while a five-inch
>> tread would have a footprint that is five-inches wide by four-inches
>> long.
>>
>> With 25 pounds of air pressure, you need 20 square-inches to support 500
>> pounds.....one way or another.
>>
>> By running your tires at maximum inflation, you are running the car at
>> 62.5 percent of the tire footprint that the car manufacturer has
>> designed the suspension to work with.
>>
>>
>>
>>

> Undeniable fact?? Usually the stuff you put out is more or less correct
> (bravado and SOB-ness not withstanding), but I need to see a legit
> reference for this one.



I also want to see what's Horse Schidt about a manufacturer's
recommendation for rim widths.

I'll take their word first...


  #39  
Old September 8th 07, 01:20 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.tech
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 616
Default OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:18:06 -0500, * wrote:

>>
>> So, on my Corolla with OEM rims of 5.5", I had to take a set of wheels

> off
>> my Celica (6.5") to run the hi-poi 195/45-14s or run the risk of the
>> sidewall flexing too much and blowing the tire off the rim...
>>
>>
>>
>>

>
> Well, so much for the integrity/validity of your "PLONK!"



Depends which system I'm using...


  #40  
Old September 8th 07, 01:21 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.tech
Hachiroku $B%O%A%m%/(B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 616
Default OEM Tires, Optional OEM tires, and totally off-the-wall tires

On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:18:06 -0500, * wrote:

> Your statement was, "I make sure they fit the rims correctly.".......
>
> ........NOT, "I make sure the correct-width rims have been selected for
> use."



Huh? Talk about splitting RCH's...


 




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