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what's the condenser for on a mechanical voltage regulator?



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 21st 07, 03:03 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Default what's the condenser for on a mechanical voltage regulator?


"jim" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> wrote:
> >
> > "jim" > wrote in message
> > ...\
> >
> > Kettering will work without a condensor.....for a short period of time.

>
> It will work at a much much lower voltage. The points themselves and the
> wiring have some capacitance but it needs more.


It works at a lower voltage because the inductive field has to collapse very
quickly
to give highest voltage. It cannot do that if the points are sparking.



> As I said remove the spark plug and you have a resonant circuit that
> will produce an AC waveform at the resonant frequency. Hook up an
> O-scope and try it if you don't believe me.


I am well aware that you will get a ringing waveform when the field
collapses.


> No they won't they will last forever because the engine won't run.


I have never tried it, actually, but concede that if it should start at all,
it wouldnt run for long. Have you actually ever tried this?


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  #22  
Old February 21st 07, 03:58 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 166
Default what's the condenser for on a mechanical voltage regulator?

On Feb 21, 7:03 am, > wrote:
> "jim" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > wrote:

>
> > > "jim" > wrote in message
> > ...\

>
> > > Kettering will work without a condensor.....for a short period of time.

>
> > It will work at a much much lower voltage. The points themselves and the
> > wiring have some capacitance but it needs more.

>
> It works at a lower voltage because the inductive field has to collapse very
> quickly
> to give highest voltage. It cannot do that if the points are sparking.
>
> > As I said remove the spark plug and you have a resonant circuit that
> > will produce an AC waveform at the resonant frequency. Hook up an
> > O-scope and try it if you don't believe me.

>
> I am well aware that you will get a ringing waveform when the field
> collapses.
>
> > No they won't they will last forever because the engine won't run.

>
> I have never tried it, actually, but concede that if it should start at all,
> it wouldnt run for long. Have you actually ever tried this?


I did. It won't run.

Dan


  #23  
Old February 21st 07, 04:40 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
jim
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Posts: 546
Default what's the condenser for on a mechanical voltage regulator?



wrote:

>
> > As I said remove the spark plug and you have a resonant circuit that
> > will produce an AC waveform at the resonant frequency. Hook up an
> > O-scope and try it if you don't believe me.

>
> I am well aware that you will get a ringing waveform when the field
> collapses.


Not usually. If there is a spark plug that fires the wave form gets
arrested before it reaches maximum on it first peak. Only if there is no
diversion of the current (by arcing in the secondary) will there be the
damped sinusoidal waveform.


>
> > No they won't they will last forever because the engine won't run.

>
> I have never tried it, actually, but concede that if it should start at all,
> it wouldnt run for long. Have you actually ever tried this?


Oh sure I have. Remember the type of points that had a condenser wire
that just slipped in behind the points spring. After installing new
points I once put the distributor cap and pinched the condenser wire
between the cap and distributor. The engine started up and idled fine,
but as soon as it was revved up the engine stalled and would not
restart. When I open the distributor I found that as soon as the vacuum
advance kicked in it pulled the condenser wire out of the circuit and
the engine killed. After inserting the condenser wire back where it
belonged and carefully routing the wire so that the cap didn't pinch it
again the engine started and ran fine. With out the condenser hooked up
it had a little spark, but the spark was very weak.

Now I'll admit that the weak spark (low voltage) does have something
to do with arcing at the points and you could probably design a set up
that got a higher voltage with a different type point and coil
configuration. So it may be possible to construct a point set up that
worked without a condenser and that set up would probably not last as
long. But that has to do with efficiency. The capacitor is sized so that
it works efficiently. That is it produces the required high voltage with
a minimum amount of current flow. A system without the condenser would
require alot more current flow thru the coil to generate the same high
voltage output, and thus the points and coil would not last as long.

-jim

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  #24  
Old February 21st 07, 06:24 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
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Posts: 38
Default what's the condenser for on a mechanical voltage regulator?


jim wrote:
> With out the condenser hooked up
> it had a little spark, but the spark was very weak.



I showed this same thing in a different way trying to test the coil on
my Sportster motorcycle. Used a plain piece of wire instead of points
and condenser, touching the wire to ground manually and pulling it off
to create the spark, seen by looking at a spark plug out in the open
(grounded to the threads, of course). The spark generated in this
manner was so puny it was hardly visible. When I added a condenser
the spark was big and audible.

  #26  
Old February 21st 07, 08:27 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Steve[_1_]
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Posts: 3,043
Default what's the condenser for on a mechanical voltage regulator?

Mike Romain wrote:

>>

> Ok, so now you have me curious.
>
> Just how does this condenser affect RF if it doesn't mellow out (buffer)
> the arc from the points?



It does. Yes, the charging circuit will WORK without the cap, but the
contacts on the relay will erode much faster than when the cap is
present. Lots of RFI is a sign that the points are arcing, eliminating
or reducing the arcing will make the contact points last longer. No
"ifs, ands, or buts."
  #27  
Old August 21st 18, 06:18 AM posted to rec.autos.tech
jenglish
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Posts: 1
Default what's the condenser for on a mechanical voltage regulator?

replying to Bob Flumere, jenglish wrote:
perhaps you could help me, recently replaced generator and regulator in 56
Buick and ammeter shows no charge again. flashing for polarity doesn't help
anymore. i have a battery disconnect on the ground terminal. with the old
generator and regulator if i did the battery disconnect while the engine was
running the engine would continue to run until the ignition switch was turned
off; since change of generator and regulator when i open the battery
disconnect the engine stops; just trying to understand whats going on. any
comment?

--
for full context, visit https://www.motorsforum.com/tech/wha...tor-52309-.htm


  #28  
Old August 21st 18, 04:40 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Kevin Bottorff[_3_]
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Posts: 84
Default what's the condenser for on a mechanical voltage regulator?

jenglish > wrote in
:

>
>


the first obvious thing is the gen. is not having any output. you need to
find out if its the gen or reg that is the problem. KB
  #29  
Old November 15th 20, 11:31 PM posted to rec.autos.tech
Elvin Opel mechanic
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Posts: 1
Default what's the condenser for on a mechanical voltage regulator?

thats wrong a alternator acts like a ac magneto in reverse form it can even act as as a bldc motor with a proper controler the gm 4pin ignition module system works on coliding magnetic fields bouth take place in the primery circuit a ac pulse is turned to dc pulse by the ignition module coming from a pick up coil the second pulse comes from the batery exactly from the potential diference from the alternator when those oposing waves hit ich other with high speed for exampel positive and negative pulses hit ich ither you get a spike down the high tension lead you can ither use ac with ac ore dc puls with ac it still will work those are called ac and dc magneto's so that alternator needs a condenser if not you get static in your baterry who will destroy it after some time doe the reson your alternatir is over charging the baterry with more volteg even tought that us not made you get more power considered the ignition system faster working electrical devices like electric motors etc thats the real reason that condenser is there for! those are low reving alternator build for working mashines like tractors if they are put in a car they will over charge a baterry you get a sport car out of your lazy normal ignition system this is considered as a waste spark ignition system as well by fiering on compresion and exaust at the same time your car will have more power

--
For full context, visit https://www.motorsforum.com/tech/wha...tor-52309-.htm

 




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