POROUS ENGINE BLOCK: 2000 5.7 Liter

Just diagnosed, oil has migrated into the cooling system.
62,000 miles
Requires engine replacement.

This is on a 2000 Camaro Z28 SS which shares the same engine.

ANY SIMILIAR PROBLEMS?

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Just diagnosed, oil has migrated into the cooling system.
> 62,000 miles
> Requires engine replacement.
>
> This is on a 2000 Camaro Z28 SS which shares the same engine.
>
> ANY SIMILIAR PROBLEMS?
>
Actually it's not the same engine but it does share a similar block,
may even be the same block now. To answer your question, yes, there
are times during the casting process that porosity can occur. Many
reasons, cold mould, incorrect melt temperature, poor core material
adhesion, impure metal, impure core sand or mix, bad wax, missing glue
in core buildup, slow pour, vent obstruction, sprue restriction,
improper riser heights, cold shut, and core shift plus a few I forgot.
Bound to happen in mass production from time to time and I've seen 2
in my life time of which one was in cast iron block the other in an
'04 LS1. The LS1 is owned by a retired employee of GM from the foundry
that cast the block. How sad is that?

By the way the LS2 started out life as a truck block.
--
Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

Thanks for your info - it helps ease the burden of the engine
replacement.

"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want
in ... and how many want out."

Dad wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Just diagnosed, oil has migrated into the cooling system.
>> 62,000 miles
>> Requires engine replacement.
>>
>> This is on a 2000 Camaro Z28 SS which shares the same engine.
>>
>> ANY SIMILIAR PROBLEMS?
>>
> Actually it's not the same engine but it does share a similar block,
> may even be the same block now. To answer your question, yes, there
> are times during the casting process that porosity can occur. Many
> reasons, cold mould, incorrect melt temperature, poor core material
> adhesion, impure metal, impure core sand or mix, bad wax, missing glue
> in core buildup, slow pour, vent obstruction, sprue restriction,
> improper riser heights, cold shut, and core shift plus a few I forgot.
> Bound to happen in mass production from time to time and I've seen 2
> in my life time of which one was in cast iron block the other in an
> '04 LS1. The LS1 is owned by a retired employee of GM from the foundry
> that cast the block. How sad is that?
>
> By the way the LS2 started out life as a truck block.

Similar problems:

Recently (late '90s production) both Acura and Hyundai have had recalls
for engine block porosity. In the '70s GM had incidents of porosity
in large Hydramatic cases and a dealer-level TSB to correct those. Fix
was a resin coating for affected transmission cases. Noted that issue
when looking through the TSBs for my '79 Firebird. A friend's GMC truck
had a Hydramatic that "sweated" fluid on the outside of the case.

Since this is a case of hidden defect, I'd imagine that GM will make it
good.

Thanks for the post -- we usually assume gasket/seal failure when
coolant contaminates--something else to consider on the LS1. Now I'll
be personally feeling the fluid rather than just checking the level.
--
…PJ
’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe

Thanks for the help. It is yet to be determined what GM will come to
the plate on their 3 year / 36000 mile warranty. After searching the
net, went to this group fro answers. It may not be desired ones, but
they make sense. The feeling & the financial loss is like a reverse
lottery, were the 1 in 10,000,000 is you & the prize is a bill!

Thx


"I'll go anywhere as long as it's forward."

"PJ" > wrote in message
news:CKyBf.144486$WH.6714@dukeread01...
> Dad wrote:
Snip
> Recently (late '90s production) both Acura and Hyundai have had
> recalls for engine block porosity. In the '70s GM had incidents of
> porosity
> in large Hydramatic cases and a dealer-level TSB to correct those.
> Fix was a resin coating for affected transmission cases. Noted that
> issue when looking through the TSBs for my '79 Firebird. A friend's
> GMC truck had a Hydramatic that "sweated" fluid on the outside of
> the case.
>
> Since this is a case of hidden defect, I'd imagine that GM will make
> it good.
>
> Thanks for the post -- we usually assume gasket/seal failure when
> coolant contaminates--something else to consider on the LS1. Now
> I'll be personally feeling the fluid rather than just checking the
> level.
> --
> …PJ
> ’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe

Actually the problems you are pointing out are from die castings and
it is not the manner in which the engine blocks are cast. Cold shuts
and seams are more prevalent in die castings and many require
impregnation as a standard part of manufacture.

Blocks are not as thin and don't suffer quite so much from
porosity/cold shuts/seams as do the die cast parts. Very seldom do you
see a block leak but it does happen.

--
Dad
05 C6 Silver/Red 6spd Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

wrote:
> Thanks for your info - it helps ease the burden of the engine
> replacement.
>
> "A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at how many want
> in ... and how many want out."
>

You might see if your state / locale consumer laws allow a warranty
claim for a "latent defect."

-- V

That is a good point.

Thx

"Champions keep playing until they get it right."

wrote:
> Thanks for the help. It is yet to be determined what GM will come to
> the plate on their 3 year / 36000 mile warranty. After searching the
> net, went to this group fro answers. It may not be desired ones, but
> they make sense. The feeling & the financial loss is like a reverse
> lottery, were the 1 in 10,000,000 is you & the prize is a bill!
>
> Thx
>
>
> "I'll go anywhere as long as it's forward."
>

Over the past 40+ years, I've seen a handful, maybe a dozen cases where
GM's district representatives have quietly reached beyond the written
warranty and have approved repair/replacement of powertrain components
where servicing failure or abuse wasn't a factor. I've heard that the
district rep had authority to make approvals out to 50K miles. Since
this instance is beyond 50K the buyer may have to be more 'hat-in-hand'
and be more assertive. Advertising the problem or hanging lemons on the
car isn't a good approach!

The old Uniform Commercial Code used to cover 'hidden defect' and
require the seller to make good where a buyer could not be reasonably
expected to identify the problem during or immediately following the
purchase.

Canada has affirmed that principle in their new commercial code and lets
the buyer void the initial purchase in some cases of hidden defect. The
U.S. has gone a bit in the opposite direction. The Magnuson-Moss
revision to the UCC does a better job or protecting the
seller/manufacturer and takes some of the teeth out of 'hidden defect'
putting the buyer in the hands of the attorneys (oh joy!) to really
understand what the law means.

Once the dealer makes a determination, request a conference with a
district service rep. If that doesn't work then appeal to GM.

--
…PJ
’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe

"PJ" > wrote in message ...
> wrote:
> > Thanks for the help. It is yet to be determined what GM will come to
> > the plate on their 3 year / 36000 mile warranty. After searching the
> > net, went to this group fro answers. It may not be desired ones, but
> > they make sense. The feeling & the financial loss is like a reverse
> > lottery, were the 1 in 10,000,000 is you & the prize is a bill!
> >
> > Thx
> >
> >
> > "I'll go anywhere as long as it's forward."
> >
>
> Over the past 40+ years, I've seen a handful, maybe a dozen cases where
> GM's district representatives have quietly reached beyond the written
> warranty and have approved repair/replacement of powertrain components
> where servicing failure or abuse wasn't a factor. I've heard that the
> district rep had authority to make approvals out to 50K miles. Since
> this instance is beyond 50K the buyer may have to be more 'hat-in-hand'
> and be more assertive. Advertising the problem or hanging lemons on the
> car isn't a good approach!

I must have been one of those rare cases in 1971 with a Vette with a rear
wheel bearing that went out with a bang at 12,300 miles. I wrote several
letters and finally GM decided to "extend the warranty" by 300 miles and
send me a check for what I paid for the repairs. Of course, they did not
reach out again at 12,500 miles to repair the power steering that broke.

>
> The old Uniform Commercial Code used to cover 'hidden defect' and
> require the seller to make good where a buyer could not be reasonably
> expected to identify the problem during or immediately following the
> purchase.
>
> Canada has affirmed that principle in their new commercial code and lets
> the buyer void the initial purchase in some cases of hidden defect. The
> U.S. has gone a bit in the opposite direction. The Magnuson-Moss
> revision to the UCC does a better job or protecting the
> seller/manufacturer and takes some of the teeth out of 'hidden defect'
> putting the buyer in the hands of the attorneys (oh joy!) to really
> understand what the law means.
>
> Once the dealer makes a determination, request a conference with a
> district service rep. If that doesn't work then appeal to GM.
>
> --
> …PJ
> ’89 HookerCar, ’02 E-blu 6-spd Coupe