Do you know what an EDR is?

EDR is a relatively new acronym.... Event data recorders have been built
into restraint contol modules for many years. The equipment to retrieve the
data is still quite expensive and there are legal ramifications to the
recovery of this data,,,,

However, I refuse to be the cause of an accident if I can possibly avoid
it.... However, if I drive like I can cause an accident, I would be worried
that the EDR can hang me by the nuts. There is no way, at the dealership
l;evel, for us to disable this event recorder.... Even if it were possible,
I doubt that I would because of little peckerheads that think street racing
or "getting frisky" are part and parcel of vehicle operation.

Life's a bitch... deal with it.


"...." > wrote in message
...
> Not a single sales person knew what an EDR was not to speak of disabling
> it.
>
> an Event Data Recorder (EDR) is wired into your cars air bag system. In
> the event of an air bag deployment this litttle solid state spy will
> record your speed, seat belt usage for all passengers, brake and
> throttle position and some mfr's record even more parameters.
>
> I am told the 07 Mustang's "little spy" is located under the console.
> does anyone know how or who might be able to disable it?
>
> These little boxes are in most late models...the data in them is going
> to be a tort attorney's and insurance co's wet dream.
>
> Norm
>

Not a single sales person knew what an EDR was not to speak of disabling
it.

an Event Data Recorder (EDR) is wired into your cars air bag system. In
the event of an air bag deployment this litttle solid state spy will
record your speed, seat belt usage for all passengers, brake and
throttle position and some mfr's record even more parameters.

I am told the 07 Mustang's "little spy" is located under the console.
does anyone know how or who might be able to disable it?

These little boxes are in most late models...the data in them is going
to be a tort attorney's and insurance co's wet dream.

Norm

Knock wood. I haven't had a speeding ticket in 29 years. That still doesn't
make the little spy any more palatable. Even boring sane drivers such as
myself are at risk. This is a way bigger deal than the NSA screening offshore
telephone calls by computer for terrorist leaks. And here we have this little
frankenstein spying on American citizens creating a little digital records.

Right now, explain how this would deter street racing? It only records the
last 20 seconds or so before air bag deployment. So idiots can race all over
creation as long as they do not crash there will not be a trace.

There will be ever more increasing parameters recorded. Speed. Average
speed. GPS location. Percent of time driving after dark. Miles to work.
Etc. Wait till GEICO figures out how to get their hands on this data. Want
insurance? Let us download you little black box, then we'll tell you how much
*extra* we are going to charge you....Won't give us the info...? No insurance.
No insurance...no financing.

Now suppose they start recording long periods. You take your car to a track
day or drag strip for a sanctioned event...on the way home, under the speed
limit, you get in an accident not your fault. The court gets its hands onthe
box and WOW, look at that you had your foot flat on the floor 100 times in the
last 24 hours (on the track)..."balif lock him/her up forever"

Jim Warman wrote:

> EDR is a relatively new acronym.... Event data recorders have been built
> into restraint contol modules for many years. The equipment to retrieve the
> data is still quite expensive and there are legal ramifications to the
> recovery of this data,,,,
>
> However, I refuse to be the cause of an accident if I can possibly avoid
> it.... However, if I drive like I can cause an accident, I would be worried
> that the EDR can hang me by the nuts. There is no way, at the dealership
> l;evel, for us to disable this event recorder.... Even if it were possible,
> I doubt that I would because of little peckerheads that think street racing
> or "getting frisky" are part and parcel of vehicle operation.
>
> Life's a bitch... deal with it.
>
> "...." > wrote in message
> ...
> > Not a single sales person knew what an EDR was not to speak of disabling
> > it.
> >
> > an Event Data Recorder (EDR) is wired into your cars air bag system. In
> > the event of an air bag deployment this litttle solid state spy will
> > record your speed, seat belt usage for all passengers, brake and
> > throttle position and some mfr's record even more parameters.
> >
> > I am told the 07 Mustang's "little spy" is located under the console.
> > does anyone know how or who might be able to disable it?
> >
> > These little boxes are in most late models...the data in them is going
> > to be a tort attorney's and insurance co's wet dream.
> >
> > Norm
> >

I wish I could have gotten the information off of my son's 1995 Camaro after
he totaled it out. This is not so that I can punish him, is was so that I
could prove to those dumbass cops that he wasn't horsing around when he was
almost killed by a hit and run driver. The cops in this case just assumed
that he was acting out because 1. he was a teenager 2. he was in a red
Camaro, 3. he had two girls in the car. I was able to take evidence back to
them to show that he was forced off the road and that their police report
made no sense at all. In fact, it was impossible for the car to do what he
says it would do in the police report. They were still not willing to
change the report. I have has other similar experiences. You see, in cases
like these, these event recorders expose the truth. The truth, should never
be an issue.

Like one of the author opined. If you are driving right and obeying the
law, these types of devices are your friend. If you caused an accident, you
caused an accident...period. This is an investigative tool not an invasion
of privacy, that is why it's limited to 20 seconds. Since it's only
recording automobile conditions, presumably on public streets, there is no
expectation of privacy.


"...." > wrote in message
...
> Knock wood. I haven't had a speeding ticket in 29 years. That still
doesn't
> make the little spy any more palatable. Even boring sane drivers such as
> myself are at risk. This is a way bigger deal than the NSA screening
offshore
> telephone calls by computer for terrorist leaks. And here we have this
little
> frankenstein spying on American citizens creating a little digital
records.
>
> Right now, explain how this would deter street racing? It only records
the
> last 20 seconds or so before air bag deployment. So idiots can race all
over
> creation as long as they do not crash there will not be a trace.
>
> There will be ever more increasing parameters recorded. Speed. Average
> speed. GPS location. Percent of time driving after dark. Miles to work.
> Etc. Wait till GEICO figures out how to get their hands on this data. Want
> insurance? Let us download you little black box, then we'll tell you how
much
> *extra* we are going to charge you....Won't give us the info...? No
insurance.
> No insurance...no financing.
>
> Now suppose they start recording long periods. You take your car to a
track
> day or drag strip for a sanctioned event...on the way home, under the
speed
> limit, you get in an accident not your fault. The court gets its hands
onthe
> box and WOW, look at that you had your foot flat on the floor 100 times in
the
> last 24 hours (on the track)..."balif lock him/her up forever"
>
> Jim Warman wrote:
>
> > EDR is a relatively new acronym.... Event data recorders have been built
> > into restraint contol modules for many years. The equipment to retrieve
the
> > data is still quite expensive and there are legal ramifications to the
> > recovery of this data,,,,
> >
> > However, I refuse to be the cause of an accident if I can possibly avoid
> > it.... However, if I drive like I can cause an accident, I would be
worried
> > that the EDR can hang me by the nuts. There is no way, at the dealership
> > l;evel, for us to disable this event recorder.... Even if it were
possible,
> > I doubt that I would because of little peckerheads that think street
racing
> > or "getting frisky" are part and parcel of vehicle operation.
> >
> > Life's a bitch... deal with it.
> >
> > "...." > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Not a single sales person knew what an EDR was not to speak of
disabling
> > > it.
> > >
> > > an Event Data Recorder (EDR) is wired into your cars air bag system.
In
> > > the event of an air bag deployment this litttle solid state spy will
> > > record your speed, seat belt usage for all passengers, brake and
> > > throttle position and some mfr's record even more parameters.
> > >
> > > I am told the 07 Mustang's "little spy" is located under the console.
> > > does anyone know how or who might be able to disable it?
> > >
> > > These little boxes are in most late models...the data in them is
going
> > > to be a tort attorney's and insurance co's wet dream.
> > >
> > > Norm
> > >
>

"Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>Like one of the author opined. If you are driving right and obeying the
>>law, these types of devices are your friend. If you caused an accident,
>>you
>>caused an accident...period. This is an investigative tool not an
>>invasion
>>of privacy, that is why it's limited to 20 seconds. Since it's only
>>recording automobile conditions, presumably on public streets, there is no
>>expectation of privacy.
>>
>
> Since it's YOUR car you should have the right to have or not have the
> device. When you are on public streets would you agree that if the
> gvt wanted to they could make you run around naked because "presumably
> on public streets, there is no expectation of privacy."
>
> You sound like just another sheep....

In Pennsylvania (at least), driving is a privilege, not a right. You may own
the car, but you do not have an inherant right to drive it on public
roadways.

If you DO drive it on public roadways, you've got a TON of rules and
regulations (plus optional common courtesies) that must be followed. If
you've ever been a student of modern commuter traffic, you would marvel that
it works at all (99.9% of the time).

The first thing that happens in any plane crash, from a 747 to a Cessna, is
the opening of the black box, to help in finding out exactly what happened
to cause the crash. The hope here is NOT that the crash can be blamed on the
pilot, but that the answers will help avoid future crashes in similar
circumstances. Now, if the pilot DID screw up, I think we'd all like to know
about it.

A similar little black box in my car wouldn't bother me in the slightest. In
fact, I welcome it; in the event that there IS an incident, I trust that it
would back me up, not point a finger of blame. I'm not worried. Yes, I like
to drive somewhat faster than posted speed limits, but how often is that
single element the cause of a crash?

But go ahead, disconnect your little black box. If you're all that worried
about "government interference in your private life," stay home. Once you
take your privately-owned automobile out onto a public roadway, your actions
behind the wheel are NOT your private concern, but a public risk. What you
do as a driver could well impact MY health and happiness, none of us drives
in a vacuum.

And if all of these millions of little black boxes serve to make our
roadways in any way safer, I'm all for it.

dwight
www.tfrog93.com

Dwight hit the nail on the head... am I above making mistakes? No, that's
part of the human condition..... Bad choices, however, are something I can
avoid...

At this point in time, Crash Data Recordings aren't ebing used a lot though
I see a growing momentum. Analyzing this data makes accident reconstruiction
easier, quicker and (in terms of manpower/hours) more economical....

Bad guys are bad guys... is it so bad that those of us that obey the rules
be subject to some minor scrutiny?

Only those with something to hide are afraid of examination....


"dwight" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message
> ...
>>>
>>>Like one of the author opined. If you are driving right and obeying the
>>>law, these types of devices are your friend. If you caused an accident,
>>>you
>>>caused an accident...period. This is an investigative tool not an
>>>invasion
>>>of privacy, that is why it's limited to 20 seconds. Since it's only
>>>recording automobile conditions, presumably on public streets, there is
>>>no
>>>expectation of privacy.
>>>
>>
>> Since it's YOUR car you should have the right to have or not have the
>> device. When you are on public streets would you agree that if the
>> gvt wanted to they could make you run around naked because "presumably
>> on public streets, there is no expectation of privacy."
>>
>> You sound like just another sheep....
>
> In Pennsylvania (at least), driving is a privilege, not a right. You may
> own the car, but you do not have an inherant right to drive it on public
> roadways.
>
> If you DO drive it on public roadways, you've got a TON of rules and
> regulations (plus optional common courtesies) that must be followed. If
> you've ever been a student of modern commuter traffic, you would marvel
> that it works at all (99.9% of the time).
>
> The first thing that happens in any plane crash, from a 747 to a Cessna,
> is the opening of the black box, to help in finding out exactly what
> happened to cause the crash. The hope here is NOT that the crash can be
> blamed on the pilot, but that the answers will help avoid future crashes
> in similar circumstances. Now, if the pilot DID screw up, I think we'd all
> like to know about it.
>
> A similar little black box in my car wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
> In fact, I welcome it; in the event that there IS an incident, I trust
> that it would back me up, not point a finger of blame. I'm not worried.
> Yes, I like to drive somewhat faster than posted speed limits, but how
> often is that single element the cause of a crash?
>
> But go ahead, disconnect your little black box. If you're all that worried
> about "government interference in your private life," stay home. Once you
> take your privately-owned automobile out onto a public roadway, your
> actions behind the wheel are NOT your private concern, but a public risk.
> What you do as a driver could well impact MY health and happiness, none of
> us drives in a vacuum.
>
> And if all of these millions of little black boxes serve to make our
> roadways in any way safer, I'm all for it.
>
> dwight
> www.tfrog93.com
>
>

Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 08:36:00 -0400, "dwight" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>> Like one of the author opined. If you are driving right and obeying the
>>>> law, these types of devices are your friend. If you caused an accident,
>>>> you
>>>> caused an accident...period. This is an investigative tool not an
>>>> invasion
>>>> of privacy, that is why it's limited to 20 seconds. Since it's only
>>>> recording automobile conditions, presumably on public streets, there is no
>>>> expectation of privacy.
>>>>
>>> Since it's YOUR car you should have the right to have or not have the
>>> device. When you are on public streets would you agree that if the
>>> gvt wanted to they could make you run around naked because "presumably
>>> on public streets, there is no expectation of privacy."
>>>
>>> You sound like just another sheep....
>> In Pennsylvania (at least), driving is a privilege, not a right.
>
> Driving is a right in every state. Like many rights the courts have
> ruled that there are legitimate reasons that there may be some
> controls as long as the basic underlying right remains. I doubt you
> can find any state where the issuance of a license is at the whim of
> the state and where a licence can be revoked for no articulated
> reason. Do you have a right to breathe the air? I'll assume you
> think you do yet the gvt has put many restrictions on that right
> including in many locations outlawing your right to exhale cigarette
> smoke in certain locations. SO does that make breathing a privilege?
>
>
> You may own
>> the car, but you do not have an inherant right to drive it on public
>> roadways.
>>
>
> Yes I do.
>

No you do not. In Louisiana the law specifically states driving is a
privilege that may be removed at any time. I know a lot of states laws
specifically read that way as well. In an IM someone tells me that Ohio
is the same way, specifically called a privilege, not a right.

Reconstructing an MVA can be an inexact science.... A CDR can remove doubt
about some of the events...

Here's the information available to those with the equipment to recover the
data.... speed, throttle angle (position), brake applied (yes/no) amongst
other non-judgemental information. Used to be (before ABS) they could judge
your approxiamte speed and brake application by the length of the skid marks
you left... Now, since ABS is doing it's best not to leave skid marks, there
arises the opportunity that the scene may be "misread".....

If you were facing a vehicular manslaughter or criminal negligence charge,
I'm willing to bet you would be more than happy to have this relatively
benign information come along and save your ass.... Unless, of course, you
have something to hide....

For my part... if I did something wrong and admit to it, there is nothing
recorded in my RCM that can make things worse.... If I didn't do something
wrong, the data in my RCM can prove that I am telling the truth...

"Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 01 Apr 2007 00:38:48 GMT, "Antique Muscle" >
> wrote:
>
>>I wish I could have gotten the information off of my son's 1995 Camaro
>>after
>>he totaled it out. This is not so that I can punish him, is was so that I
>>could prove to those dumbass cops that he wasn't horsing around when he
>>was
>>almost killed by a hit and run driver. The cops in this case just assumed
>>that he was acting out because 1. he was a teenager 2. he was in a red
>>Camaro, 3. he had two girls in the car. I was able to take evidence back
>>to
>>them to show that he was forced off the road and that their police report
>>made no sense at all. In fact, it was impossible for the car to do what
>>he
>>says it would do in the police report. They were still not willing to
>>change the report. I have has other similar experiences. You see, in
>>cases
>>like these, these event recorders expose the truth. The truth, should
>>never
>>be an issue.
>>
>>Like one of the author opined. If you are driving right and obeying the
>>law, these types of devices are your friend. If you caused an accident,
>>you
>>caused an accident...period. This is an investigative tool not an
>>invasion
>>of privacy, that is why it's limited to 20 seconds. Since it's only
>>recording automobile conditions, presumably on public streets, there is no
>>expectation of privacy.
>>
>
> Since it's YOUR car you should have the right to have or not have the
> device. When you are on public streets would you agree that if the
> gvt wanted to they could make you run around naked because "presumably
> on public streets, there is no expectation of privacy."
>
> You sound like just another sheep....
>

No, it's called a 'social contract'... just like it's your body, I can't
just walk over and beat the f**k out of you (as much as I'd like)...I agree
to a social contract that says I can't do that if I want to live in this
society. If you agree to drive on public roads, you agree to the conduct
set down by society, in this case, gov't, acting on behalf of the people.
You don't like it, get off the public roads and build your own set of roads
where you alone can dictate what is acceptable behaviour. Doesn't mean these
things are 'right', just that when you are on public roads you agree to
their use if you drive a car that has one. Don't want one, buy a 1967
Mustang.

B

The risks outweigh the benefits.

Antique Muscle wrote:

> I wish I could have gotten the information off of my son's 1995 Camaro after
> he totaled it out. This is not so that I can punish him, is was so that I
> could prove to those dumbass cops that he wasn't horsing around when he was
> almost killed by a hit and run driver. The cops in this case just assumed
> that he was acting out because 1. he was a teenager 2. he was in a red
> Camaro, 3. he had two girls in the car. I was able to take evidence back to
> them to show that he was forced off the road and that their police report
> made no sense at all. In fact, it was impossible for the car to do what he
> says it would do in the police report. They were still not willing to
> change the report. I have has other similar experiences. You see, in cases
> like these, these event recorders expose the truth. The truth, should never
> be an issue.
>
> Like one of the author opined. If you are driving right and obeying the
> law, these types of devices are your friend. If you caused an accident, you
> caused an accident...period. This is an investigative tool not an invasion
> of privacy, that is why it's limited to 20 seconds. Since it's only
> recording automobile conditions, presumably on public streets, there is no
> expectation of privacy.
>
> "...." > wrote in message
> ...
> > Knock wood. I haven't had a speeding ticket in 29 years. That still
> doesn't
> > make the little spy any more palatable. Even boring sane drivers such as
> > myself are at risk. This is a way bigger deal than the NSA screening
> offshore
> > telephone calls by computer for terrorist leaks. And here we have this
> little
> > frankenstein spying on American citizens creating a little digital
> records.
> >
> > Right now, explain how this would deter street racing? It only records
> the
> > last 20 seconds or so before air bag deployment. So idiots can race all
> over
> > creation as long as they do not crash there will not be a trace.
> >
> > There will be ever more increasing parameters recorded. Speed. Average
> > speed. GPS location. Percent of time driving after dark. Miles to work.
> > Etc. Wait till GEICO figures out how to get their hands on this data. Want
> > insurance? Let us download you little black box, then we'll tell you how
> much
> > *extra* we are going to charge you....Won't give us the info...? No
> insurance.
> > No insurance...no financing.
> >
> > Now suppose they start recording long periods. You take your car to a
> track
> > day or drag strip for a sanctioned event...on the way home, under the
> speed
> > limit, you get in an accident not your fault. The court gets its hands
> onthe
> > box and WOW, look at that you had your foot flat on the floor 100 times in
> the
> > last 24 hours (on the track)..."balif lock him/her up forever"
> >
> > Jim Warman wrote:
> >
> > > EDR is a relatively new acronym.... Event data recorders have been built
> > > into restraint contol modules for many years. The equipment to retrieve
> the
> > > data is still quite expensive and there are legal ramifications to the
> > > recovery of this data,,,,
> > >
> > > However, I refuse to be the cause of an accident if I can possibly avoid
> > > it.... However, if I drive like I can cause an accident, I would be
> worried
> > > that the EDR can hang me by the nuts. There is no way, at the dealership
> > > l;evel, for us to disable this event recorder.... Even if it were
> possible,
> > > I doubt that I would because of little peckerheads that think street
> racing
> > > or "getting frisky" are part and parcel of vehicle operation.
> > >
> > > Life's a bitch... deal with it.
> > >
> > > "...." > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Not a single sales person knew what an EDR was not to speak of
> disabling
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > an Event Data Recorder (EDR) is wired into your cars air bag system.
> In
> > > > the event of an air bag deployment this litttle solid state spy will
> > > > record your speed, seat belt usage for all passengers, brake and
> > > > throttle position and some mfr's record even more parameters.
> > > >
> > > > I am told the 07 Mustang's "little spy" is located under the console.
> > > > does anyone know how or who might be able to disable it?
> > > >
> > > > These little boxes are in most late models...the data in them is
> going
> > > > to be a tort attorney's and insurance co's wet dream.
> > > >
> > > > Norm
> > > >
> >