Should I lose the top? Turbo stuff too.

Lanny Chambers wrote:

> I think you misunderstood. I meant they prefer power steering because
> the power rack has a quicker ratio than the manual rack. They put up
> with the slight loss of feel to gain the benefit of smaller hand
> movements and less shuffling. Effort has little to do with it. I don't
> know if de-powering a power rack is legal in Spec Miata, but I doubt it.

I am also pretty sure it is not legal for spec racing.
For general street use, or for a car that is already modified beyond
spec racing rules, I like a de-powered steering rack a lot.

Quicker ratio and excellent feel, and I don't find the car hard at all
to turn even when it is stationary, and that is with 215 width tires up
front instead of 185's or 195's.

It seems like the super-lightweight Momo Champion steering wheel also
helps with the steering "feel" over the heavier, air-equipped steering
wheel.

The best part for me, however, is the removal of the P/S pump, belt,
reservoir and fluid lines.

Less parts to ever wear out and no more taking up any space under the
hood for a system that provides power steering assistance that I do not
need or want.
Also, no power steering fluid to ever worry about changing, and it
probably took at least 5 pounds of weight off of the car! ;-)

Since I am not concerned about the spec racing aspect, I can see only
advantages to de-powering the rack for myself.
I am just glad the the previous owner de-powered it before I bought it,
as it does not look like the easiest project ever.

Pat

Chris D'Agnolo wrote:
> Tim, although I agree the steering is a bit too light on the NA power
> assisted cars, your dartiness may be more a factor of your alignment.
> Larry, I mean Lanny ;-) can help you with that if you want to try
> something different than your current setup. He specializes in a
> 'performance alignment' or is is 'precision alignment'? Anyway, either
> way, you'll probably be able to get your car to act just the way you
> want it to. He's quite helpful / knowledgeable if you want to tweak his
> favorite setting he can help you do it right.
>
> Why is it that every time I want to get into this, I have to go back and
> read up on toe-in and caster and such ...... what's wrong with me?
> Ooops, let me retract that ;-)
>
> I think they got the PS pretty much perfect on the NB, it feels pretty
> much un assisted w/o the higher effort at low speeds.
>
> Chris
> 99BBB

On my last alignment for the '96M before it died, they screwed up and
gave me 1/32 inch of toe-out instead of 1/32 inch toe-in.
Now that was a darty car, but I did not take it back in right away as it
was kind of fun.

All I had to do was look at the steering wheel and it would change
lanes. "Use the force, Luke"

Pat

On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 23:37:14 -0500, Lanny Chambers >
wrote:

>In article >,
> pltrgyst > wrote:
>
>> >Probably due mostly to the quicker ratio.
>>
>> That's what the F1 guys say too. I find it awfully hard to believe from my FF
>> racing -- as long as the car was doing 5mph, steering effort was absolutely
>> nothing at all, but what do I know?
>
>I think you misunderstood. I meant they prefer power steering because
>the power rack has a quicker ratio than the manual rack. They put up
>with the slight loss of feel to gain the benefit of smaller hand
>movements and less shuffling. Effort has little to do with it. I don't
>know if de-powering a power rack is legal in Spec Miata, but I doubt it.

No, I didn't misunderstand, Lanny. I'm assuming that's also the reason why the
F1 teams go for it. What I don't get is how often -- apart from the hairpin at
Monte Carlo -- is the quicker ratio really meaningful enough to offset the lack
of feedback?

BTW, I de-powered the rack on my TR-8 and really liked it that way.

-- Larry

In article >,
pltrgyst > wrote:

> >I think you misunderstood. I meant they prefer power steering because
> >the power rack has a quicker ratio than the manual rack. They put up
> >with the slight loss of feel to gain the benefit of smaller hand
> >movements and less shuffling. Effort has little to do with it. I don't
> >know if de-powering a power rack is legal in Spec Miata, but I doubt it.
>
> No, I didn't misunderstand, Lanny. I'm assuming that's also the reason why the
> F1 teams go for it.

You're still misunderstanding, Larry. With a Miata, you have two rack
choices: quicker power or slower manual. In stock autocross classes, you
can only use a manual rack in a car that came with it, or has had all of
its other equipment adjusted to match a car that came with it. You can't
drop a manual rack into a 1.8 NA with a Torsen LSD, e.g., unless it has
all the R pieces and none of the options not available on the R. Thus,
to compete with a manual rack I'd have to lose my electric windows,
leather seats, etc., and add the R spoilers.

F1 teams can make any ratio rack they want, with or without any amount
of power assist, so their choices are based on driver preference, not
necessity.

> What I don't get is how often -- apart from the hairpin at
> Monte Carlo -- is the quicker ratio really meaningful enough to offset the
> lackof feedback?

Ever watch Montoya's hands in an F1 race? Lots more lock used than you
might think, searching for grip at 110%. Things happen *fast* in F1, and
shuffling an F1 steering "wheel" is not an option. Slow steering means
wasted opportunities to save spins.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 00:28:35 -0500, Lanny Chambers >
wrote:

>You're still misunderstanding, Larry. With a Miata, you have two rack
>choices: quicker power or slower manual. In stock autocross classes, you
>can only use a manual rack in a car that came with it, or has had all of
>its other equipment adjusted to match a car that came with it. You can't
>drop a manual rack into a 1.8 NA with a Torsen LSD, e.g., unless it has
>all the R pieces and none of the options not available on the R. Thus,
>to compete with a manual rack I'd have to lose my electric windows,
>leather seats, etc., and add the R spoilers.

I don't think so, Lanny. From his OP, he's already at 200hp and more, along with
other mods, so I don't see any indication that he's even thinking about running
stock.

-- Larry

In article >,
pltrgyst > wrote:

> I don't think so, Lanny. From his OP, he's already at 200hp and more,
> along with other mods, so I don't see any indication that he's even
> thinking about running stock.

I thought the issue was why many top autocrossers prefer power steering.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C

On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 10:18:59 -0500, Lanny Chambers >
wrote:

>In article >,
> pltrgyst > wrote:
>
>> I don't think so, Lanny. From his OP, he's already at 200hp and more,
>> along with other mods, so I don't see any indication that he's even
>> thinking about running stock.
>
>I thought the issue was why many top autocrossers prefer power steering.

Yeah, I kinda thought we might be talking at cross purposes.
Never mind. 8

-- Larry