A little long before firing up - family trademark or is my car alittle sick?

I find that when starting my 1999 NB 1.8 it takes about a second before
the engine fires up. Or to put in different words it takes just slightly
long enough for me to notice and think "Huh!".

This seems to be regardless of ambient temperatures and only if the car
has been out running within the hour or so it fires up straight away.

Voltage on the battery is fine and I can hear the starter turning at
what I think is normal speed so my guess is that fuel supply is the
issue. When I had the car at is' first major service (60K miles) in the
summer the mechanic reported the issue was a family trademark but still
it bugs me a little.

I run the 95 RON gas around on the car and fuel quality is generally of
high standards so that should be fine.


Any thoughts?

Kind regards
Bruno

Bruno > wrote:

> I find that when starting my 1999 NB 1.8 it takes about a second
> before the engine fires up. Or to put in different words it takes
> just slightly long enough for me to notice and think "Huh!".

<snip>

> Any thoughts?

Does it matter how long the car has been sitting or is it the same
every time you start it?


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XS11E wrote:
>
> Does it matter how long the car has been sitting or is it the same
> every time you start it?
>

It does seem like the firing up takes longer if the car has been parked
a few days rather than say just one day but the difference is not a huge
one. Maybe I should try and time it somehow or perhaps even record it. I
shall try and report in more detail.

Kind regards
Bruno

Bruno > wrote:

> XS11E wrote:
>>
>> Does it matter how long the car has been sitting or is it the
>> same every time you start it?
>>
>
> It does seem like the firing up takes longer if the car has been
> parked a few days rather than say just one day but the difference
> is not a huge one. Maybe I should try and time it somehow or
> perhaps even record it. I shall try and report in more detail.

I don't know if it's important. I was thinking if it started right up
after running awhile but took a long time after sitting overnight a
leaky valve in the fuel pump might be allowing fuel to drain back into
the tank so there wouldn't be enough pressure in the fuel rail for an
instant start but that seems unlikely if it's not a big difference.

Looking at real obvious stuff.... how old are the spark plugs and plug
wires?



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XS11E wrote:
>
> I don't know if it's important. I was thinking if it started right up
> after running awhile but took a long time after sitting overnight a
> leaky valve in the fuel pump might be allowing fuel to drain back into
> the tank so there wouldn't be enough pressure in the fuel rail for an
> instant start but that seems unlikely if it's not a big difference.
>
Hmm, it sounds like a possible theory. If one imagines there is only so
far the fuel can drain back it could very well be that certain level of
delay is reached after like a day or so and that the level won't change
much more regardless of time. This is total speculation on my part as I
really know to little about these things.


> Looking at real obvious stuff.... how old are the spark plugs and plug
> wires?
>

Plugs was changed at the big service this summer but that did not change
anything. The plug wires could be the original 1999 ones or they could
be little more than a year old - I must admit to buying a car without a
service history so many things are pure guess work.

Kind regards
Bruno

Bruno > wrote:

> XS11E wrote:
>>
>> I don't know if it's important. I was thinking if it started
>> right up after running awhile but took a long time after sitting
>> overnight a leaky valve in the fuel pump might be allowing fuel
>> to drain back into the tank so there wouldn't be enough pressure
>> in the fuel rail for an instant start but that seems unlikely if
>> it's not a big difference.
>>
> Hmm, it sounds like a possible theory. If one imagines there is
> only so far the fuel can drain back it could very well be that
> certain level of delay is reached after like a day or so and that
> the level won't change much more regardless of time. This is total
> speculation on my part as I really know to little about these
> things.

The pressure in the fuel rail is around 35 - 40psi for most cars, if
the pressure drops too far the car can't start until the pressure comes
back up which is why I was asking about the time involved. *IF* one of
the check valves in the pump isn't seating properly the bleedback could
be very slow...

>> Looking at real obvious stuff.... how old are the spark plugs and
>> plug wires?
>>
>
> Plugs was changed at the big service this summer but that did not
> change anything. The plug wires could be the original 1999 ones or
> they could be little more than a year old - I must admit to buying
> a car without a service history so many things are pure guess
> work.

Stick on new wires, you MAY see an inprovement if they're old or at the
very least you'll have a starting date for future changes.

You can test the wiring if you can find a very dark night or very dark
place to park, just start the car, raise the hood and watch around the
plug wires for pretty blue sparkles, if you see any the wires are bad.


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Some of the 99's had a problem with the pressure relief valve/regulator in
the tank leaking down. Unfortunately, the factory leakdown test only
detected gross leak down problems, not ones that might occur over more than
24hours. In any event, a revised replacement valve was made, and should be
what you will get if you order a new one. I still think the no return line
system used on the 99 and later NB's is a mistake.
Replacing the valve requires normal hand tools, an open well vented area
away from any source of ignition, and reasonably high humidity.
The top must be up, and the rear deck rug and access plate removed. The
whole fuel pump/tank sensor/regulator assembly comes out from the top of the
tank as a unit. Some of the roll bars may be in the way.

The easiest way to measure fuel pressure on a 99 is to order the short hose
assembly with quick release fittings that is used on the passenger side of
the engine down by the frame. You cut the hose and insert a tee and a FP
gauge. Since some of the hoses were plastic, you may need to substitute
rubber hose and clamps if you are using the hose that came on the car. You
are really buying the hose assembly to get the quick disconnect fittings.
The fittings by themselves may be available now-- they were not when I last
got into this area in about 2002.

"Bruno" > wrote in message
k...
> XS11E wrote:
> >
> > I don't know if it's important. I was thinking if it started right up
> > after running awhile but took a long time after sitting overnight a
> > leaky valve in the fuel pump might be allowing fuel to drain back into
> > the tank so there wouldn't be enough pressure in the fuel rail for an
> > instant start but that seems unlikely if it's not a big difference.
> >
> Hmm, it sounds like a possible theory. If one imagines there is only so
> far the fuel can drain back it could very well be that certain level of
> delay is reached after like a day or so and that the level won't change
> much more regardless of time. This is total speculation on my part as I
> really know to little about these things.
>
>
> > Looking at real obvious stuff.... how old are the spark plugs and plug
> > wires?
> >
>
> Plugs was changed at the big service this summer but that did not change
> anything. The plug wires could be the original 1999 ones or they could
> be little more than a year old - I must admit to buying a car without a
> service history so many things are pure guess work.
>
> Kind regards
> Bruno

Bruno, I've noticed a very similar tendency with my 99 and have even asked
the question here w/o much response IIRC. I've been concerned that this
could be the early stages of a fuel pump problem. Mine hasn't gotten much
worse in the (relatively) colder weather so, I'm not sure. Maybe someone
will chime in with something useful this time.

Chris
99BBB

"Bruno" > wrote in message
k...
>I find that when starting my 1999 NB 1.8 it takes about a second before the
>engine fires up. Or to put in different words it takes just slightly long
>enough for me to notice and think "Huh!".
>
> This seems to be regardless of ambient temperatures and only if the car
> has been out running within the hour or so it fires up straight away.
>
> Voltage on the battery is fine and I can hear the starter turning at what
> I think is normal speed so my guess is that fuel supply is the issue. When
> I had the car at is' first major service (60K miles) in the summer the
> mechanic reported the issue was a family trademark but still it bugs me a
> little.
>
> I run the 95 RON gas around on the car and fuel quality is generally of
> high standards so that should be fine.
>
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Kind regards
> Bruno

On my 99 which does the same thing, I believe that it's related to the cam
and or crankshaft sensors.
It seems to take a bit for the ECU to sort out the sensor signals.

"Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote in message
...
> Bruno, I've noticed a very similar tendency with my 99 and have even asked
> the question here w/o much response IIRC. I've been concerned that this
> could be the early stages of a fuel pump problem. Mine hasn't gotten much
> worse in the (relatively) colder weather so, I'm not sure. Maybe someone
> will chime in with something useful this time.
>
> Chris
> 99BBB
>
> "Bruno" > wrote in message
> k...
> >I find that when starting my 1999 NB 1.8 it takes about a second before
the
> >engine fires up. Or to put in different words it takes just slightly long
> >enough for me to notice and think "Huh!".
> >
> > This seems to be regardless of ambient temperatures and only if the car
> > has been out running within the hour or so it fires up straight away.
> >
> > Voltage on the battery is fine and I can hear the starter turning at
what
> > I think is normal speed so my guess is that fuel supply is the issue.
When
> > I had the car at is' first major service (60K miles) in the summer the
> > mechanic reported the issue was a family trademark but still it bugs me
a
> > little.
> >
> > I run the 95 RON gas around on the car and fuel quality is generally of
> > high standards so that should be fine.
> >
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Kind regards
> > Bruno
>
>

Probably not a bad thing. Gives the oil pump time to prime before any
significant load is placed on bearing surfaces.


"Chuck" > wrote in message
...
> On my 99 which does the same thing, I believe that it's related to the cam
> and or crankshaft sensors.
> It seems to take a bit for the ECU to sort out the sensor signals.
>
> "Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Bruno, I've noticed a very similar tendency with my 99 and have even
>> asked
>> the question here w/o much response IIRC. I've been concerned that this
>> could be the early stages of a fuel pump problem. Mine hasn't gotten much
>> worse in the (relatively) colder weather so, I'm not sure. Maybe someone
>> will chime in with something useful this time.
>>
>> Chris
>> 99BBB
>>
>> "Bruno" > wrote in message
>> k...
>> >I find that when starting my 1999 NB 1.8 it takes about a second before
> the
>> >engine fires up. Or to put in different words it takes just slightly
>> >long
>> >enough for me to notice and think "Huh!".
>> >
>> > This seems to be regardless of ambient temperatures and only if the car
>> > has been out running within the hour or so it fires up straight away.
>> >
>> > Voltage on the battery is fine and I can hear the starter turning at
> what
>> > I think is normal speed so my guess is that fuel supply is the issue.
> When
>> > I had the car at is' first major service (60K miles) in the summer the
>> > mechanic reported the issue was a family trademark but still it bugs me
> a
>> > little.
>> >
>> > I run the 95 RON gas around on the car and fuel quality is generally of
>> > high standards so that should be fine.
>> >
>> >
>> > Any thoughts?
>> >
>> > Kind regards
>> > Bruno
>>
>>
>
>