stuck caliper...

jim beam wrote:
> more likely, all the goop got squeezed all the way up from the caliper.
> whenever pushing a piston back in, /always/ open the bleed nipple and
> disgard what gets squeezed out. it's always contaminated.
>
> i recommend re-bleeding using full pedal travel to make sure you move as
> much of that stuff back out of there as possible. full travel ensures
> you really do press it out, not leave the cruddy stuff at the bottom of
> the cylinder.

I doubt I need to rebleed--I went through perhaps 3/4 of a quart of new
fluid, and with full pedal travel, in the course of changing the
fluid--that is, pumping the pedal until the fluid was clean on all four
calipers. The front pistons were pushed in all the way. The fluid should
be pretty clean now, and I'm sure I can live with whatever traces remain
till the next fluid change.

Thanks for the tip on opening the bleed screw when pishing a piston back
in, I'll remember that.

> yes, it is suposed to push the piston out. the arm moves, right? if
> not, check the brake cables. if it does, disconnect the brake cable and
> see if it moves by hand. if it's all loose and bottoms out, sounds like
> you may have a problem.

Unfortunately, the arm moves totally freely and bottoms out at the stop,
like the shaft has sheared.

> if they were replaced, they should be peachy. if not, make sure you
> familarize yourself with the parts drawings & tegger's removal
> instructions. maybe yours got reassembled wrong, or the adjusting
> screw's in need of a little encouragement to start doing its job.

I'd think they should be peachy, which is what bother me and makes me
wonder if the gal got scammed. Sounds like you're suggesting I
disassemble the sucker and figure it out. Ordinarily I'd enjoy the
puzzle (and of course the opportunity to acquire a pair of snap-ring
pliers), but I don't really have a place to leave it out of commission.
Perhaps if I could cap the brake line securely while the caliper is off,
such that I could drive it a few feet. Does such a cap exist?

Anyway, the caliper is close to $200, no reman listed at Majestic, so I
have greater incentive to puzzle it out.

jim beam wrote:
> if it's hydraulic, it's self adjusting at the slave end, and all the
> pedal end does is adjust the gap between the pedal rest stop and the
> cylinder engagement point. yes, adjust per the manual, if required.
> unless stuff's worn & has been messed with, there's little if anything
> you'll need to adjust.

It's hydraulic. I definitely need to adjust the pedal, though, it
disengages *very* close to the top of travel. Much closer, and the
clutch will be slipping.

"TeGGer®" wrote:

> > I do a fair bit of computer consulting. Recently did a job for a
> > client out in NJ, and noticed on my way out at about 10 p.m. that her
> > neighbor, who was running a computer learning center for kids, had a
> > whole bunch of nice flat panel displays on full, no screen saver. So I
> > suggested to my client that she might mention to her neighbor that if
> > she wanted to make them last she should enable the power saving mode.
>
> I thought screen savers were for older CRTs with phosphors that were prone
> to bleaching?
>
> LCD screens are like your pocket calculator. I didn't think they could
> "burn-in".

There are two issues with LCD longevity. One is the back lighting, it
has a limited life. The second is that the LCD looses contrast with age.
The "flying toaster" type screen saver won't help, but having the screen
go into sleep mode after an hour of non-use prolongs useful life.

jim beam wrote:

> drive a big rig. there, high revs are your friend - you'll /never/
> succeed in getting a downshift without them.

dont those things *redline* at about 4500rpm?

TeGGer® wrote:
> Abeness > floridly penned in
> :
>
>
>>I doubt I need to rebleed--I went through perhaps 3/4 of a quart of
>>new fluid, and with full pedal travel, in the course of changing the
>>fluid--that is, pumping the pedal until the fluid was clean on all
>>four calipers. The front pistons were pushed in all the way. The fluid
>>should be pretty clean now, and I'm sure I can live with whatever
>>traces remain till the next fluid change.
>
>
>
>
> If your master cylinder still works correctly, you're fine until next year.
> You WILL bleed them again next year, won't you?
>
>
>
>>Thanks for the tip on opening the bleed screw when pishing a piston
>>back in, I'll remember that.
>>
>>
>>>yes, it is suposed to push the piston out. the arm moves, right? if
>>>not, check the brake cables. if it does, disconnect the brake cable
>>>and see if it moves by hand. if it's all loose and bottoms out,
>>>sounds like you may have a problem.
>>
>>Unfortunately, the arm moves totally freely and bottoms out at the
>>stop, like the shaft has sheared.
>
>
>
>
> If the arm moves loosely then the pin inside the caliper at the cam has
> rusted, broken or fallen off.
>
> Either that or the weather seal has failed and the shaft was seized and has
> now snapped in two.
>
> Rebuild time.
>
>
>
>
>>>if they were replaced, they should be peachy. if not, make sure you
>>>familarize yourself with the parts drawings & tegger's removal
>>>instructions. maybe yours got reassembled wrong, or the adjusting
>>>screw's in need of a little encouragement to start doing its job.
>
>
>
> Adjustment is done at the parking brake equalizer inside the passenger
> compartment. Before you adjust, the lever should be up against the stop pin
> with the brake off.

sorry, meant the self-adjust mechanism within the caliper.

>
>
>
>>I'd think they should be peachy, which is what bother me and makes me
>>wonder if the gal got scammed. Sounds like you're suggesting I
>>disassemble the sucker and figure it out. Ordinarily I'd enjoy the
>>puzzle (and of course the opportunity to acquire a pair of snap-ring
>>pliers),
>
>
>
>
> An ordinary pair of snap-ring pliers won't do it.
>
> If you attempt to rebuild the parking brake mechanism yourself, you may
> find you will have one devil of a time doing it. The caliper's piston bore
> is deep and narrow. You need to buy or manufacture special tools if you
> don't want to spend three weeks trying to get it apart and then back
> together again.
>
>
>
>
>>but I don't really have a place to leave it out of
>>commission. Perhaps if I could cap the brake line securely while the
>>caliper is off, such that I could drive it a few feet. Does such a cap
>>exist?
>
>
>
> It's called a "line lock". You can buy them anywhere. However, they are NOT
> intended to drive with them for more than test drives!!!!
>
>
>
>>Anyway, the caliper is close to $200, no reman listed at Majestic, so
>>I have greater incentive to puzzle it out.
>>
>
>
>
> $200 will be for a reman. Brand new will be several times that, assuming
> Honda even still sells them.
>
>
>

Abeness wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> more likely, all the goop got squeezed all the way up from the
>> caliper. whenever pushing a piston back in, /always/ open the bleed
>> nipple and disgard what gets squeezed out. it's always contaminated.
>>
>> i recommend re-bleeding using full pedal travel to make sure you move
>> as much of that stuff back out of there as possible. full travel
>> ensures you really do press it out, not leave the cruddy stuff at the
>> bottom of the cylinder.
>
>
> I doubt I need to rebleed--I went through perhaps 3/4 of a quart of new
> fluid, and with full pedal travel, in the course of changing the
> fluid--that is, pumping the pedal until the fluid was clean on all four
> calipers. The front pistons were pushed in all the way. The fluid should
> be pretty clean now, and I'm sure I can live with whatever traces remain
> till the next fluid change.
>
> Thanks for the tip on opening the bleed screw when pishing a piston back
> in, I'll remember that.

i'm picky about this stuff. i'd press the piston back in with the
bleeder open one more time. makes sure you expel any detritis from the
caliper. the inlet is in the middle and the bleeder is at the top.
conventional bleeding tends to leave the crud at the bottom.

>
>> yes, it is suposed to push the piston out. the arm moves, right? if
>> not, check the brake cables. if it does, disconnect the brake cable
>> and see if it moves by hand. if it's all loose and bottoms out,
>> sounds like you may have a problem.
>
>
> Unfortunately, the arm moves totally freely and bottoms out at the stop,
> like the shaft has sheared.
>
>> if they were replaced, they should be peachy. if not, make sure you
>> familarize yourself with the parts drawings & tegger's removal
>> instructions. maybe yours got reassembled wrong, or the adjusting
>> screw's in need of a little encouragement to start doing its job.
>
>
> I'd think they should be peachy, which is what bother me and makes me
> wonder if the gal got scammed. Sounds like you're suggesting I
> disassemble the sucker and figure it out. Ordinarily I'd enjoy the
> puzzle (and of course the opportunity to acquire a pair of snap-ring
> pliers), but I don't really have a place to leave it out of commission.
> Perhaps if I could cap the brake line securely while the caliper is off,
> such that I could drive it a few feet. Does such a cap exist?

there's a line-pinch tool:
http://www.etoolcart.com/index.asp?P...OD&ProdID=3466
my favorite for this job - harder to damage a hose with this design.

>
> Anyway, the caliper is close to $200, no reman listed at Majestic, so I
> have greater incentive to puzzle it out.

yep! tegger's your man on further advice.

TeGGer® wrote:
> If your master cylinder still works correctly, you're fine until next year.
> You WILL bleed them again next year, won't you?

Oh, yes! After seeing what was in there? Yikes.

> If the arm moves loosely then the pin inside the caliper at the cam has
> rusted, broken or fallen off.
>
> Either that or the weather seal has failed and the shaft was seized and has
> now snapped in two.
>
> Rebuild time.

Mmmm hmmmm. You're confirming my original suspicion, and I'm most
unhappy about it.

>>>or the adjusting
>>>screw's in need of a little encouragement to start doing its job.
>
>
>
> Adjustment is done at the parking brake equalizer inside the passenger
> compartment. Before you adjust, the lever should be up against the stop pin
> with the brake off.

I think jim beam meant the adjusting screw in the caliper. I do know
about the adjustment at the equalizer bar, already tried that but it's
way out of balance due to the malfunctioning caliper, and even at the
top click the right side barely holds. Can't adjust it further, or the
right side binds when the brake is fully released. It's enough to hold
on a medium hill unless the car is jostled, so I leave it in gear. Which
I don't especially like to do because sloppy parallel parkers have a
tendency to bump the car, and I'd rather not lose a gear in the
tranny... it's a problem.

> An ordinary pair of snap-ring pliers won't do it.
>
> If you attempt to rebuild the parking brake mechanism yourself, you may
> find you will have one devil of a time doing it. The caliper's piston bore
> is deep and narrow. You need to buy or manufacture special tools if you
> don't want to spend three weeks trying to get it apart and then back
> together again.

I'm not inclined to spend $100 for the damn snap-ring pliers and brake
spring compressor tool from slhonda, only to use them once, and only to
discover once I get in there that the cylinder bore is damaged--as in
rusted out. Come to think of it, there might have been actual
particulate matter from that cylinder in the flush. I don't recall for
certain.

> It's called a "line lock". You can buy them anywhere. However, they are NOT
> intended to drive with them for more than test drives!!!!

Right, I'd expect that. Thanks for the term.

> $200 will be for a reman. Brand new will be several times that, assuming
> Honda even still sells them.

That's interesting, it's listed in the new section at Majestic. Only
front calipers are listed in the reman section, and no fronts are listed
in the new. There's something listed for $108 and I can't tell from the
cryptic shorthand for sure what's happening. Maybe "RR" stands for right
rear, but why would it be $80 cheaper than the left?

Abeness wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
>
>> if it's hydraulic, it's self adjusting at the slave end, and all the
>> pedal end does is adjust the gap between the pedal rest stop and the
>> cylinder engagement point. yes, adjust per the manual, if required.
>> unless stuff's worn & has been messed with, there's little if anything
>> you'll need to adjust.
>
>
> It's hydraulic. I definitely need to adjust the pedal, though, it
> disengages *very* close to the top of travel. Much closer, and the
> clutch will be slipping.

that's strange. it should be that the pedal just adjusts lash - the
hyrdraulics are supposed to be self-adjusting just like front brake
calipers are. if the clutch releases "too soon", it could be that the
friction linings are either worn or have no internal springing. a
"long" clutch pedal feel is popular with the general market because it
makes it easy to pull away from a standstill. this is achieved by
having a wavy center plate to which the two sides of friction lining are
riveted. the wave is a type of spring, so there is some friction over a
longer pedal stroke as the spring holds a degree of engagement. "short"
clutches use a solid non-wavy center plate and this is not uncommon on
aftermarket clutches because it's more sporty.

have you had the clutch changed?

TeGGer® wrote:
> You can also use Permatex 133H aluminum-based anti-seize. That may be
> easier to find.

Actually, I did pick something like that up, and I have a bottle of
nickle anti-seize. in the end I decided on the grease. Does it matter
much? Hot damn, I just noticed that my bottle of the nickle stuff cost
18 USD!! I must've been desperate. It is 8 oz, but yikes!

> Sil-Glyde should be available everywhere.

I've checked two places, a local auto parts place and a pretty hard-core
hardware store, no luck. But I have a lead.

> <GASP!> DON"T SAND THE PISTONS!!!!!! THAT'S SUICIDE! Replace them. They're
> available separately from the caliper, something like $20 or $30 each.

I just meant the groove, but I suppose that would ruin the fit of the
rubber boot. You're right that they're only $20.

> If the caliper bore is rusted inside the hydraulic seal, that's a sign the
> fluid was never changed at all. Very, very bad. Also jibes with your
> observation that the master cylinder was "swimming with rust".

Unh-hunh. Maybe I'll pop the pistons out in the spring and see what's
going on in there before all hell brakes loose. (pun intended) I suppose
I should pump the pistons most of the way out with the pedal, then drain
the fluid before working them out the rest of the way? Not sure how I'd
attach a bike pump as you suggested previously, for yet-uninstalled new
calipers.

Randolph wrote:
> There are two issues with LCD longevity. One is the back lighting, it
> has a limited life. The second is that the LCD looses contrast with age.
> The "flying toaster" type screen saver won't help, but having the screen
> go into sleep mode after an hour of non-use prolongs useful life.

Precisely.