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Two kinds of idiots



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 20th 05, 01:02 AM
Spike
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wouldn't matter if you did or didn't... you're still not going to....
LOL : )

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:51:30 GMT, wrote:

>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:35:00 -0700, Spike > wrote:
>
>>No problem... sorry, you are not allowed in my Mustang. I am not a
>>bigot... I just hate all stupid people like you.
>>
>>

>
>lmfao
>what makes u think i would want to ride in your car??
>
>are u gay ??
>
>
>hurc ast


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
Ads
  #22  
Old April 20th 05, 01:35 AM
Joe
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"Ralph Snart" > wrote in
:

>
>
> "Brent P" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >, RichA
>> wrote:
>>
>>> who think
>>> 40mph can mix with 60mph without problems.

>>
>> On a limited access highway where lane discipline is practiced, a
>> wide speed variance is easy and safely delt with. Only in the USA
>> is this a problem, because lane discipline is practically
>> non-existant in much of the nation.
>>
>> Lane discipline is why a 911 and 2CV can be on the autobahn at the
>> same time.
>>

>
> I have to agree. On I-25, the posted speed limit is 75, most people
> go 80-90, but there will ALWAYS be the assclown in the left lane
> going SLOWER than the traffic, causing people to have to go into the
> right lane to pass his/her sorry ass. These drivers are much
> greater hazards to the roads than speeders or tailgaters. It's a
> pity that they can't be shot on sight.


Check this out:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/leg...=1&cset=tru e

The Road Rage Law is coming to Florida.

Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC
  #23  
Old April 20th 05, 03:10 AM
John H
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On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 15:19:42 -0700, Spike > wrote:

>On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:12:14 -0500,
>(Brent P) wrote:
>
>I think one law enforcement exchange program experience would open
>your eyes to a presence you fail to observe. Perhaps as you are
>traveling at 100+ the natural tunnel vision which develops blinds you
>to the obvious. Then read the annual reports from the people who
>manage the Autobahn. Read the engineering reports regarding the
>construction and maintenance of the Autobahn, and you will see that
>there is no other system, as old or new, which compares to what has
>gone into creating, maintaining, and improving the system, anywhere in
>the world, although some of the newer Japanese route are approaching
>first rate. You cite the Autobahn and how much more the drivers comply
>compared to the US. The Autobahn, extensive as it is, is a very small
>piece of the European roadway system. The portion you don't mention is
>nowhere near as complying. I would suggest that you get over there and
>do a much wider range of travel, and then question why the Autobahn
>has more compliance. It is not simply because the drivers are more
>polite.
>
>
>
>>In article >, Spike wrote:
>>> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:58:37 -0500,

>>> (Brent P) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article >, Spike wrote:
>>>>> I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the
>>>>> Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to
>>>>> the Autobahn enforcement and management divisions),
>>>>
>>>>I didn't argue they violated it, I argue they follow it far more than US
>>>>drivers. And they do so without much in the way of enforcement. There is
>>>>very sparse enforcement on the autobahn, and when there is, they go after
>>>>things like tailgating, as that is the major problem there last I heard.
>>>>If we only had it so good.
>>>
>>> That is not accurate according to the Management and Enforcement
>>> agencies of the Autobahn. There are cameras for monitoring traffic,
>>> and enforcement uses a wide range of specialized, marked and unmarked,
>>> car and motorcycle patrols, as well as roadside monitoring. They go
>>> after violators of a wide range of traffic laws, including,
>>> lighting,signaling, speed, adverse conditions operation, lane
>>> changing at speed, proper lane maintenance, etc etc etc. I get the
>>> impression you have not personally driven the Autobahn, nor studied
>>> the management of it's use. If what you say is contrary to what the
>>> management and enforcement operations of the Autobahn, and the German
>>> government say, how can anything you say be taken seriously?

>>
>>You have an actual cite? Because this image of rigid enforcement you are
>>trying to convey is contrary to everything I've read, seen, and
>>experienced. Yes, there is enforcement, but it is not the
>>way you are making it out to be. There is no constant monitoring of
>>everyone, everywhere for violations as you are making it out to be. It
>>simply is not like that.
>>
>>There is some enforcement presence, but nothing like you claim. Sparse
>>would be a good word to describe it. Rural autobahn has effectively
>>nobody out there enforcing lane discipline, much like rural Indiana.
>>However, on the rural autobahn, there is lane discipline, while in rural
>>Indiana interstate it's practically nonexistant.
>>
>>Effectively what you are doing is taking the existance of a few red
>>light cameras and acting as if the entire US road system is so monitored.
>>
>>Also, I didn't write that only tailgating was enforced, but that
>>tailgating was the big problem. There are/have been tailgating traps set
>>up on overpasses to measure the distances between vehicles. Much like the
>>effort put in with speed traps in the USA.
>>
>>Patrol cars are few and far between as well.
>>
>>So, you show me this constant, ever present enforcement you claim exists.
>>I simply didn't see it, and you are the first person I've encountered to
>>claim it's there.
>>
>>> Law enforcement is there to enforce the law... and that includes
>>> traffic laws.

>>
>>Then enforce Keep Right except to pass. Enforce signaling, enforce a
>>whole host of laws on books in this country. But are they enforced? No.
>>
>>Here in IL, elected officals strengthen the lane discipline portion of the
>>vehicle code. In a year's time, the ISP writes a whole 50 some tickets.
>>It's trivial. On I90/94 it one could spend their entire shift writing
>>tickets for this and this alone.
>>
>>> Police officers don't make the laws.

>>
>>They damn well choose what to enforce and on who.
>>
>>> You put down the enforcement model, as if the cops make the rules.

>>
>>No, I put it down because it's idiotcy. The same way you are claiming the
>>autobahn is so tightly controled and how that's no good. (thankfully it's
>>not controlled like that)
>>
>>> Talk to the politicians.

>>
>>Yes, you're only following the orders of your masters.
>>
>>> There are a lot of changes we would like to see, but we
>>> have to live with what the system hands us.

>>
>>As if there is no selective enforcement.
>>
>>> You act as if our sole motivation is revenue.

>>
>>That's the motivation of your masters, the politicians, and since you
>>just follow orders, and told me to take it up with them, then it is your
>>motivation too.
>>
>>> It's clear you don't personally know many, if
>>> any at all, police officers. You clearly have no idea what they are
>>> about, or what they have to contend with from people who seem to think
>>> they are above the law because they know better than the enforcement
>>> officer, and everyone else.

>>
>>Oh, you mean like the ISP who ticket people for going faster than 55mph
>>but drive 85-90mph themselves? Or the local cops that rutinely speed and
>>don't use singals and make all sorts of violations? Or the cops who don't
>>know the vehicle code and demanded that I remove my vehicle (a bicycle)
>>from the roadway? Or my favorite, the two cops, one tailgating the other
>>driving 80mph or so on IL53, and when the lead cruiser used the brakes,
>>the following cruiser nearly rear ended the lead one.
>>
>>>>Also driver training in the USA is practically non-existant. People just
>>>>sort of decide on their own personal set of rules. This includes cops.

>>
>>> I do agree that driver training can be different in scope from one
>>> area to another. You see that elsewhere in the world. For example, in
>>> Belgium you were required to have a driver's license if you bought a
>>> new car, but if you bought a used car it was not required. In some
>>> countries, a license is unheard of for the masses. I know what my son
>>> went through to get his license. The number of months of restricted
>>> driving (things like not permitted to have other teens in the car is
>>> the law for new young drivers), etc. I'm getting the feeling you have
>>> selected a single region where you have experienced your peeves, and
>>> applied that to the entire country.

>>
>>What part of the US of A has a decent driver training program? Name one.
>>Just name one state that has something closer to say the UK's requirements
>>than usual around-the-block type testing of the USA.
>>
>>Oh, btw, the hoops teenagers in the USA are made to go through in the USA
>>only make for equally untrained older teenagers driving. It's not about
>>teaching them to drive, but just restricting their driving to limit the
>>damage they can do. (Identical mentality to having underposted speed
>>limits, let every idiot drive, but try to restrict the damage that will
>>occur when they hit something) Having only one passenger so they can't
>>kill 3 of their friends in a wreck under the concept that they cannot handle
>>distractions from said friends. Maybe it's because this is a culture of
>>multi-tasking drivers. Where driving isn't considered important, but
>>something you can do in addition to yacking on the phone, reading,
>>shaving, applying make up, etc... Just ease them into being like most of
>>the rest of the population.
>>
>>I'd like to see a state that starts requiring skid control classes in HS
>>driver's ed instead of having cops hassle the few that find an empty
>>parking lot to teach themselves.
>>
>>> People are different from one zone
>>> to another. Just as rural people are less apt to lock their homes than
>>> people living in major metro areas. I've lived in MA, NY, ME, IN, FL,
>>> MN, CA, WA, AK, rural and metro areas, and traveled through most of
>>> the rest of the country. My experience is fairly extensive.

>>
>>I am not saying observed behavior doesn't vary. It vary well does because
>>driving education in this country is essentially one generation teaching
>>the next. You can check in google groups to see where I have argued
>>before that it DOES vary from place to place. I found that lane
>>discipline in WV is orders of magnitude better than in IL, for instance.
>>So much for your newest manufactured angle. However, required
>>driver training in the USA is low in every state as far as I know.
>>

>
>Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
>1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
>Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
>Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
>w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16


I've spent almost seven years driving in Germany and through most of Europe. The
Europeans are much more disciplined drivers than what is seen in the US. Germans
can take a tag number and report a violation to the police. With a witness or
two, an offender can (and will, in many cases) be cited.

--
John H

"All decisions are the result of binary thinking."
  #24  
Old April 20th 05, 03:37 AM
Brent P
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In article >, Spike wrote:

> I think one law enforcement exchange program experience would open
> your eyes to a presence you fail to observe.


Guess you're not going to provide a cite or address anything I've written.

> Perhaps as you are
> traveling at 100+ the natural tunnel vision which develops blinds you
> to the obvious.


You're wrong. I've driven the autobahn, crusied at 90+mph and was just
keeping up. I never passed many people, even when I had the car topped
out at ~118mph. The only other car in the area at that time though was a
cop, who was ahead of me and slightly gaining on me.

Meanwhile, the actual data shows the autobahn safer than US interstate.
And I have to agree. I've never felt safer on the road than I did on the
unrestricted autobahn. The competence of the drivers around me was
amazing to me. No me first **** you games, no passive aggressive
assholes, no nothing. Orderly, effecient, fast and _SAFE_.

> Then read the annual reports from the people who
> manage the Autobahn. Read the engineering reports regarding the
> construction and maintenance of the Autobahn, and you will see that
> there is no other system, as old or new, which compares to what has
> gone into creating, maintaining, and improving the system, anywhere in
> the world, although some of the newer Japanese route are approaching
> first rate.


Yes, and there is no reason, the US tax payer should put up with the
slip-shod crap that's done regarding our roads. Our roads should last a
lot longer. But even with the crap we have, 80-95mph is generally fine
for most interstates. Can't do 200mph anywhere there is winter, but
45-55mph speed limits are just there to serve lowest common demonator
thinking, revenue goals, and of course the ability to stop just about
anyone at any time.

> You cite the Autobahn and how much more the drivers comply
> compared to the US. The Autobahn, extensive as it is, is a very small
> piece of the European roadway system. The portion you don't mention is
> nowhere near as complying. I would suggest that you get over there and
> do a much wider range of travel, and then question why the Autobahn
> has more compliance. It is not simply because the drivers are more
> polite.


Round trip from hamburg to flensburg to keil to flensburg to hamburg and
I saw ONE cop. He was driving about a 120mph and I couldn't keep up with
him.

Surface streets, I never saw a cop car that wasn't parked and empty.
Drivers were well displined. Light was green, we moved. No dillyadallying
morons. Social correction is also present, no 'just-let-em-do-it' crapola
like in the USA. I was making right turns on red and getting dirty looks,
so I asked one of the guys in the plant and found it's not legal there. I
ceased making right on reds.

BTW, You might want to learn about what's based in Flensburg, you might
be surprised.


<refuse of top posting deleted>
  #25  
Old April 20th 05, 04:28 AM
RichA
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:40:27 -0700, Spike > wrote:

>I still do not see where, with evidence that many users of the
>Autobahn violate lane discipline every day (and that's according to
>the Autobahn enforcement and management divisions), you expect to get
>everyone to fall in line like good little soldiers and stick to this
>practice. You can't do it there with strict enforcement, how do you
>expect to see compliance anywhere? But what do I know... I'm just a
>"revenue" cop with 20+ years experience. You have all the answers. Go
>fix it.

Maybe it starts with much tougher driving tests and not
granting licenses to every idiot that wants one?
-Rich
  #26  
Old April 20th 05, 07:11 AM
Spike
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Brent... While there is much you promote with which I disagree, there
is much I do agree with. However, I do not hold with the concept,
right or wrong, that the United States should be like anyone else. Our
history is nothing like the Euros, and my Aussie friends have all
voiced the same feelings about their home. Nor do I expect the Euros
to be like us.

More than anything, I want to thank you for allowing me to work off
some of the boredom of this weekend by getting you worked up...and
stringing you along. This is one of those subjects; like politics or
religion, where neither side wins. You will never understand what it's
like to be one of the cops you seem to distrust, dislike, and have no
use for, and I will never know what it is like to be you. Anyway,
thanks for the break in the monotony.... : ) Have a great week.

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:57:39 -0500,
(Brent P) wrote:

>In article >, RichA wrote:
>
>> who think
>> 40mph can mix with 60mph without problems.

>
>On a limited access highway where lane discipline is practiced, a wide
>speed variance is easy and safely delt with. Only in the USA is this a
>problem, because lane discipline is practically non-existant in much of
>the nation.
>
>Lane discipline is why a 911 and 2CV can be on the autobahn at the same
>time.


Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
  #27  
Old April 20th 05, 12:33 PM
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On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 17:02:44 -0700, Spike > wrote:

>wouldn't matter if you did or didn't... you're still not going to....
>LOL : )

like i care

fagboy

hurc ast
  #28  
Old April 20th 05, 04:26 PM
Brent P
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In article >, Spike wrote:
> Brent... While there is much you promote with which I disagree, there
> is much I do agree with.


So you're not going to address the points I made.

> However, I do not hold with the concept,
> right or wrong, that the United States should be like anyone else.


Our constitution dictates a system more like Germany's that one we have.

> Our
> history is nothing like the Euros, and my Aussie friends have all
> voiced the same feelings about their home. Nor do I expect the Euros
> to be like us.


How are the concepts of liberty supported by a system of arbitary rule on
the roads? I am for two simple things.

1) Drive such that one's impact on others is minimal.
2) That speed limits be set by the 85th percentile method, and
derestriction on rural limited access highways. (such as interstates)

This is what is compatible with the concepts of liberty outlined by
constitution of the united states of america. Germany is simply the
example that shows it works and is safer than what we presently have.
What we presently have is wrong on every level.

We have a system of arbitary speed limits that are nearly universally
ignored. How is that compatible with a government that is supposed to be
by the people for the people? It seems to be a government _OVER_ the
people. And that's always the excuse used to defend under posted speed
limits, that elected officals just know better than the people they rule
over.

> More than anything, I want to thank you for allowing me to work off
> some of the boredom of this weekend by getting you worked up...and
> stringing you along.


Nice face saving comment.

> This is one of those subjects; like politics or
> religion, where neither side wins.


No, this subject is settled by DATA. It's an engineering question, and
the data is on my side.

> You will never understand what it's
> like to be one of the cops you seem to distrust, dislike, and have no
> use for, and I will never know what it is like to be you. Anyway,
> thanks for the break in the monotony.... : )


I'll never understand what it is to be someone who collects tax revenue
at the side of the road with a gun. I'll never understand the
unquestioning, following orders mentality that every cop I've had any
meaningful discussion with has. I'll never understand how so someone who
does police work has so little understanding of the constitution of this
nation, so little understanding of the beliefs that brought it about, and
views more like those of a police state.

Police are on the front lines of taking away the liberty of the people. I
don't trust their masters (government), so why should I trust those that
follow the orders blindly?



  #30  
Old April 20th 05, 09:55 PM
Spike
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You're still going on about this? Oh, well. Hope the rest of your week
is better for you. You need to lighten up or you'll end up with ulcers
and an early grave. I hope we don't travel in the same neighborhood.
If my difference of opinion gets you this wound up, I'd hate to think
what you might do if I accidentally cut you off in traffic.

Hey! Spikey Likes IT!
1965 Ford Mustang fastback 2+2 A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok
Vintage Burgundy w/Black Standard Interior
Vintage 40 Wheels 16X8"
w/BF Goodrich Comp T/A Radial 225/50ZR16
 




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