Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half!

David wrote:

> Wrong, the employers in Canada have to pay the Government for
> healthcare. Any employer be it 1 employee to thousands, has to
> pay for the healthcare of all employees.

In Canada (specifically, Ontario):

Employer health tax is paid by the employer based on 1.95% of the
employee's pay (it does not come out of the employees pay). There is
no ceiling or limit on this tax.

Ontario health tax is a new tax (about a year old) and it does come
out of the employees pay (basically between $500 and $1000 per year,
scaled to pay).

WSIB (worker's comp) is also paid by the employer, and is determined
by the perceived risk of the nature of the business. The lowest rates
(office-type worker, computer programmers, etc) work out to about $125
to $150 per employee per year (30 cents per $100 of earnings, topping
off at something like $60k). Other types of jobs (say, building
demolition, construction industry, etc) pay much more.

The above numbers are for small businesses. I have no idea if they
are the same as large auto companies.

One thing is for sure. In Canada, it's ->less complicated<- to run a
business vs the US. Employers don't have to negotiate and deal with
health insurance plans. Stuff like dental, optical, chiropractic, ok
sure, but that's peanuts.

You can blame the American manufactures all you want but the problems in
this county are caused by the consumer. The problem is domestics
manufacture have to compete with foreign manufactures who can build their
vehicles in other countries that have far lower wages and far less costly
government regulations on how they must run their business. In addition
they need to compete with those foreign manufactures, like Toyota, who
merely assemble their vehicle in the US, using lower paid workers who
receive fewer benefit, of mostly lower cost imported parts. The greed of
the American consumer had led them to buy more and more lower cost imported
products yet expect to continue to garner higher American wages and
benefits. Something has to give. Unlike Japanese consumers, who support
their own economy, the American consumers in their greed are not likely to
support American manufactures by paying higher prices to maintain their own
economy. American manufacture more and more are being forced to do what the
consumer is doing by going to those same sources to lower their cost of
making their products. If American consumers are willing to buy foreign
goods over American made goods they are going to be forced to accept lower
wages from their employers, or worse, they will see their employer go out of
business or move their production to lower priced countries, as well.. If
American corporations start building their products off shore, as well, at
least we will still have American corporations paying federal cooperate
income taxes on the profits made in the US. That is far better than some
foreign company taking all of their profits out of the county along with the
American jobs, as is currently the case. Middle class Americans better soon
wake up or the only thing your grandchildren will need to know to get a job
is how to say 'Do you want fries with that?' or 'Welcome to Wal-Mart.'

mike hunt


"Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
...
> >Delphi, which supplies suspension systems for the Mini and Range Rover
>>Sport and cruise controls for Jaguar, was forced to seek bankruptcy
>>protection in a New York court after failing to win concessions with
>>unions. The United Auto Workers union resisted its attempts to cut hourly
>>wages by more than half, to about $10 or $12.
>>
>
> If American corporations have their designs on Third World wages for
> American workers, they'll be looking at general strikes as are seen in
> parts of Europe.
>

Tim & Linda wrote:
> Delphi execs get boost in severance pay
> http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews...6_20051007.htm
>
> The boys at the top get more money and the working man gets less. Sounds
> like the Bushism is working.
>
>
> "Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
> ...
>

I hardly call 70 or 80 bucks a hour in wages AND benifits getting too
little. They do no realize the big "raise" thy get every year because of
the health care insurance that they do not pay for directly.

"MoPar Man" > wrote in message
...
> David wrote:
>
> > Wrong, the employers in Canada have to pay the Government for
> > healthcare. Any employer be it 1 employee to thousands, has to
> > pay for the healthcare of all employees.
>

Fact: Health care in the USA is the most expensive in the world, bar none.
Next most expensive is Switzerland, at an average of about one half that of
the
USA.

Neither the workers nor the industrialists can help this. The freaking
government
could, but is too much in the pockets of the medical lobby.

Neither do Americans have the access to quality care as we have been told to
believe. We brainwash ourselves, with the help of the gummint, to believe
we have all the best, but that doesnt hold water.

GM is is deep caca too, and is evaluating the advisability of taking
bankruptcy
just behind Delphi.

Delphi supplies General Maintenance (GM). GM was/is Delphi's parent.
Wouldn't bother me one bit if both went out of business. They should be shut
down.

Larry
Behold Beware Believe

"Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
...
| Golden parachutes? A general strike will bring corporate America to its
| senses. Executives should be pink slipped on Friday for Monday's
| uncompensated layoff.
|
| If you think Mexican or Chinese auto parts will cost you less, you're
sadly
| mistaken. You'll pay the same price for them as if American workers made
| those parts. Labor costs have nothing to do with your price. Profits
have
| everything to do with your price. As labor costs go down, profits go
| up...the price remains the same!
|

I blame the absolute greed of the uaw worker, they put themselves in this
predicament. Does someone putting a nut on a bolt deserve $27/hr plus
enough O.T to make 6 figures a year? F no. I feel for the real skilled
workers in this country struggling to survive, not the overpaid uaw worker.
When you have janitors making $100K a year something is going to give.



"Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
...
> You can blame the American manufactures all you want but the problems in
> this county are caused by the consumer. The problem is domestics
> manufacture have to compete with foreign manufactures who can build their
> vehicles in other countries that have far lower wages and far less costly
> government regulations on how they must run their business. In addition
> they need to compete with those foreign manufactures, like Toyota, who
> merely assemble their vehicle in the US, using lower paid workers who
> receive fewer benefit, of mostly lower cost imported parts. The greed of
> the American consumer had led them to buy more and more lower cost
imported
> products yet expect to continue to garner higher American wages and
> benefits. Something has to give. Unlike Japanese consumers, who support
> their own economy, the American consumers in their greed are not likely to
> support American manufactures by paying higher prices to maintain their
own
> economy. American manufacture more and more are being forced to do what
the
> consumer is doing by going to those same sources to lower their cost of
> making their products. If American consumers are willing to buy foreign
> goods over American made goods they are going to be forced to accept lower
> wages from their employers, or worse, they will see their employer go out
of
> business or move their production to lower priced countries, as well.. If
> American corporations start building their products off shore, as well, at
> least we will still have American corporations paying federal cooperate
> income taxes on the profits made in the US. That is far better than some
> foreign company taking all of their profits out of the county along with
the
> American jobs, as is currently the case. Middle class Americans better
soon
> wake up or the only thing your grandchildren will need to know to get a
job
> is how to say 'Do you want fries with that?' or 'Welcome to Wal-Mart.'
>
> mike hunt
>
>
> "Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >Delphi, which supplies suspension systems for the Mini and Range Rover
> >>Sport and cruise controls for Jaguar, was forced to seek bankruptcy
> >>protection in a New York court after failing to win concessions with
> >>unions. The United Auto Workers union resisted its attempts to cut
hourly
> >>wages by more than half, to about $10 or $12.
> >>
> >
> > If American corporations have their designs on Third World wages for
> > American workers, they'll be looking at general strikes as are seen in
> > parts of Europe.
> >
>
>

On 10/10/05 11:31 am MoPar Man tossed the following ingredients into the
ever-growing pot of cybersoup:

>> Wrong, the employers in Canada have to pay the Government for
>> healthcare. Any employer be it 1 employee to thousands, has to
>> pay for the healthcare of all employees.
>
> In Canada (specifically, Ontario):
>
> Employer health tax is paid by the employer based on 1.95% of the
> employee's pay (it does not come out of the employees pay). There is
> no ceiling or limit on this tax.
>
> Ontario health tax is a new tax (about a year old) and it does come
> out of the employees pay (basically between $500 and $1000 per year,
> scaled to pay).

We're paying more than that (i.e., more than $1000 *USD* per *month*)
for health insurance and still have significant co-pays.

In Australia (so a businessman from there was telling me recently) the
most anybody pays for health insurance is 2.5% of income -- and that
covers the retired and unemployed as well.

Perce

Good healthy thread.

Health Insurance, Canada, Unions and the UAW.

As much as I'd like to blame this current President, he's got *nothing* to
do with it.

But, cannot say greed and the consumer are really what's at play. That's a
malapropism.

Mr. Curious


"tony kujawa" > wrote in message
...
> I blame the absolute greed of the uaw worker, they put themselves in this
> predicament. Does someone putting a nut on a bolt deserve $27/hr plus
> enough O.T to make 6 figures a year? F no. I feel for the real skilled
> workers in this country struggling to survive, not the overpaid uaw
worker.
> When you have janitors making $100K a year something is going to give.
>
>
>
> "Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
> ...
> > You can blame the American manufactures all you want but the problems in
> > this county are caused by the consumer. The problem is domestics
> > manufacture have to compete with foreign manufactures who can build
their
> > vehicles in other countries that have far lower wages and far less
costly
> > government regulations on how they must run their business. In
addition
> > they need to compete with those foreign manufactures, like Toyota, who
> > merely assemble their vehicle in the US, using lower paid workers who
> > receive fewer benefit, of mostly lower cost imported parts. The greed
of
> > the American consumer had led them to buy more and more lower cost
> imported
> > products yet expect to continue to garner higher American wages and
> > benefits. Something has to give. Unlike Japanese consumers, who
support
> > their own economy, the American consumers in their greed are not likely
to
> > support American manufactures by paying higher prices to maintain their
> own
> > economy. American manufacture more and more are being forced to do what
> the
> > consumer is doing by going to those same sources to lower their cost of
> > making their products. If American consumers are willing to buy foreign
> > goods over American made goods they are going to be forced to accept
lower
> > wages from their employers, or worse, they will see their employer go
out
> of
> > business or move their production to lower priced countries, as well..
If
> > American corporations start building their products off shore, as well,
at
> > least we will still have American corporations paying federal cooperate
> > income taxes on the profits made in the US. That is far better than
some
> > foreign company taking all of their profits out of the county along with
> the
> > American jobs, as is currently the case. Middle class Americans better
> soon
> > wake up or the only thing your grandchildren will need to know to get a
> job
> > is how to say 'Do you want fries with that?' or 'Welcome to Wal-Mart.'
> >
> > mike hunt
> >
> >
> > "Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > >Delphi, which supplies suspension systems for the Mini and Range
Rover
> > >>Sport and cruise controls for Jaguar, was forced to seek bankruptcy
> > >>protection in a New York court after failing to win concessions with
> > >>unions. The United Auto Workers union resisted its attempts to cut
> hourly
> > >>wages by more than half, to about $10 or $12.
> > >>
> > >
> > > If American corporations have their designs on Third World wages for
> > > American workers, they'll be looking at general strikes as are seen in
> > > parts of Europe.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

"Tim & Linda" > wrote in message
...
> Delphi execs get boost in severance pay
> http://www.freep.com/news/latestnews...6_20051007.htm
>
> The boys at the top get more money and the working man gets less. Sounds
> like the Bushism is working.
>

Top executive salary increases at these rates have been going on for
years...long before Bush took office. Was it "Clintonism" then. Of course
not. The problem is what is going on in the board rooms, not the Oval
Office.

"Daniel J. Stern" wrote: "When we vote for politicians who sell off
America's jobs in bulk to the lowest offshore bidder, then yes, that is
exactly what we deserve."

Every President for the last 30 years has help sell off America's jobs.
Free trade agreements without requiring them to meet better environmental
issues and safety for its employees is part of the problem.

Sarge