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#1
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EPA Changing Fuel Rules
An interesting article.
--- Adjustments to light truck regulations mark first policy overhaul since guidelines were made. By Jeff Plungis / Detroit News Washington Bureau WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration will unveil landmark changes to federal fuel economy standards for light trucks this week, the first major overhaul since Congress mandated them for all vehicles in 1975 after an Arab oil embargo sent gasoline prices soaring. The new fuel economy rules covering pickups, SUVs and minivans could be a watershed event for the auto industry, which has strained to meet consumer desire for bigger and more powerful vehicles while still meeting the government's minimum fuel economy targets. With gas prices reaching all-time highs, the regulations are expected to renew a debate over the best way to achieve more miles per gallon without harming automakers or reducing passenger safety. Detroit automakers believe the new system will provide them with flexibility they don't have under existing rules that set an overall mileage requirement for the entire fleet of light trucks they sell. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is expected to establish different fuel economy requirements based on a light truck's size. That is expected to make it easier for General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler to sell bigger pickups and SUVs -- a key source of profits -- without penalty. Automakers are required to maintain an average of 27.5 mpg for cars and 21.0 mpg for light trucks, which include pickups, SUVs and minivans. Detroit's Big Three argue that current rules reward companies like Honda Motor Co. and Hyundai Motor Corp., which primarily sell smaller SUVs and minivans while amassing credits that can be used to offset sales of bigger vehicles. Larger pickups and SUVs, such as the Ford F-series and the Chevrolet Suburban, have been a profit stronghold for Detroit. GM, Ford and Chrysler say the current Corporate Average Fuel Economy program puts them at a disadvantage because sales of the biggest gas-guzzlers need to be offset by smaller, more efficient models. "On a model-to-model basis, we know our models stack up well against the competition," said GM spokesman Chris Preuss. "Yet if you look at the CAFE numbers, it doesn't appear we're doing as well." Environmental groups believe the new rules will do little to meet the primary goal of the fuel economy program -- saving oil. The Bush administration has made improved fuel economy a major initiative to address rising gas prices, national security concerns about foreign oil imports and the link between auto emissions and global warming. In 2003, the administration proposed a modest increase in light-truck fuel economy, from 20.7 mpg in the 2004 model year to 22.2 mpg in the 2007 model year. The new rules will take effect with 2008 models. The fuel economy rules are the industry's single most expensive regulatory obligation, and Detroit automakers say any stiff new requirements could further strain the industry. In North America, GM and Ford are already coping with major financial losses. In the official notice that it would overhaul Corporate Average Fuel Economy rules, NHTSA said it would look only at light trucks because it is required by law to set a fleet average for light trucks every year. Officials considered adjusting rules covering cars, but the legal authority for the agency to do so was unclear. NHTSA has also emphasized safety in revising the rules. The agency's emphasis on standards for different sizes of vehicles is a response, in part, to a 2001 study by the National Academy of Sciences that said a size-based system might save lives by reducing the number of crashes between mismatched vehicles. Congressional efforts to raise fuel economy standards have failed in part because of fears automakers would sell lighter vehicles to improve mileage, making them less sturdy in crashes. Environmental groups are disappointed the new rules will not target passenger cars, which have fallen out of favor with many consumers but still account for 44 percent of industry sales. "The big question is: With this new structure, will they save oil?" said David Doniger, senior attorney of the Natural Resources Defense Council. "If they change the structure, and they don't save oil, then all you're doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic." On Friday, the Union of Concerned Scientists released a report outlining gaps in the fuel economy rules, including provisions that allow car-like vehicles such as the Chrysler PT Cruiser to be counted as trucks. NHTSA also excludes trucks that weigh more than 8,500 pounds and gives fuel-economy credits to companies for selling "flexible fuel" vehicles. The loopholes have undercut the fuel economy program by 1 million barrels of oil a day, the group said. NHTSA is expected to retain the exemption from fuel economy requirements for trucks weighing more than 8,500 pounds, such as the Hummer H2. Today's cars get double the mileage of equivalent models in the 1970s, said Eron Shosteck, spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers. While fuel economy of the average vehicle has remained flat since the late 1980s, Shosteck said today's cars have bigger, more powerful engines without losing fuel economy. "Automakers can do one part of the equation: They provide the vehicles," Shosteck said. "They don't have control over the other part, what people buy and how they drive." --- Patrick '93 Cobra |
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#2
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EPA Changing Fuel Rules
> Detroit's Big Three argue that current rules reward companies like
> Honda Motor Co. and Hyundai Motor Corp., which primarily sell smaller > SUVs and minivans while amassing credits that can be used to offset > sales of bigger vehicles. Isn't that the whole point; sell more of the fuel efficient cars, and fewer gas hogs? They have several choices: 1. lower the price on the most fuel efficient cars and raise the price on the less fuel efficient. 2. Invest more in newer technology to boost mileage. 3. Sit back and whine while they slowly go broke. JC Hall 69 Mustang 01 Civic > wrote in message oups.com... > An interesting article. > > --- > Adjustments to light truck regulations mark first policy overhaul since > guidelines were made. > > By Jeff Plungis / Detroit News Washington Bureau > > WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration will unveil landmark changes to > federal fuel economy standards for light trucks this week, the first > major overhaul since Congress mandated them for all vehicles in 1975 > after an Arab oil embargo sent gasoline prices soaring. > > The new fuel economy rules covering pickups, SUVs and minivans could be > a watershed event for the auto industry, which has strained to meet > consumer desire for bigger and more powerful vehicles while still > meeting the government's minimum fuel economy targets. > > With gas prices reaching all-time highs, the regulations are expected > to renew a debate over the best way to achieve more miles per gallon > without harming automakers or reducing passenger safety. > > Detroit automakers believe the new system will provide them with > flexibility they don't have under existing rules that set an overall > mileage requirement for the entire fleet of light trucks they sell. > > The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration is expected to > establish different fuel economy requirements based on a light truck's > size. That is expected to make it easier for General Motors Corp., Ford > Motor Co. and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler to sell bigger pickups and > SUVs -- a key source of profits -- without penalty. > > Automakers are required to maintain an average of 27.5 mpg for cars and > 21.0 mpg for light trucks, which include pickups, SUVs and minivans. > > Detroit's Big Three argue that current rules reward companies like > Honda Motor Co. and Hyundai Motor Corp., which primarily sell smaller > SUVs and minivans while amassing credits that can be used to offset > sales of bigger vehicles. > > Larger pickups and SUVs, such as the Ford F-series and the Chevrolet > Suburban, have been a profit stronghold for Detroit. GM, Ford and > Chrysler say the current Corporate Average Fuel Economy program puts > them at a disadvantage because sales of the biggest gas-guzzlers need > to be offset by smaller, more efficient models. > > "On a model-to-model basis, we know our models stack up well against > the competition," said GM spokesman Chris Preuss. "Yet if you look at > the CAFE numbers, it doesn't appear we're doing as well." > > Environmental groups believe the new rules will do little to meet the > primary goal of the fuel economy program -- saving oil. > > The Bush administration has made improved fuel economy a major > initiative to address rising gas prices, national security concerns > about foreign oil imports and the link between auto emissions and > global warming. In 2003, the administration proposed a modest increase > in light-truck fuel economy, from 20.7 mpg in the 2004 model year to > 22.2 mpg in the 2007 model year. The new rules will take effect with > 2008 models. > > The fuel economy rules are the industry's single most expensive > regulatory obligation, and Detroit automakers say any stiff new > requirements could further strain the industry. In North America, GM > and Ford are already coping with major financial losses. > > In the official notice that it would overhaul Corporate Average Fuel > Economy rules, NHTSA said it would look only at light trucks because it > is required by law to set a fleet average for light trucks every year. > Officials considered adjusting rules covering cars, but the legal > authority for the agency to do so was unclear. > > NHTSA has also emphasized safety in revising the rules. The agency's > emphasis on standards for different sizes of vehicles is a response, in > part, to a 2001 study by the National Academy of Sciences that said a > size-based system might save lives by reducing the number of crashes > between mismatched vehicles. Congressional efforts to raise fuel > economy standards have failed in part because of fears automakers would > sell lighter vehicles to improve mileage, making them less sturdy in > crashes. > > Environmental groups are disappointed the new rules will not target > passenger cars, which have fallen out of favor with many consumers but > still account for 44 percent of industry sales. > > "The big question is: With this new structure, will they save oil?" > said David Doniger, senior attorney of the Natural Resources Defense > Council. "If they change the structure, and they don't save oil, then > all you're doing is rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic." > > On Friday, the Union of Concerned Scientists released a report > outlining gaps in the fuel economy rules, including provisions that > allow car-like vehicles such as the Chrysler PT Cruiser to be counted > as trucks. NHTSA also excludes trucks that weigh more than 8,500 pounds > and gives fuel-economy credits to companies for selling "flexible fuel" > vehicles. The loopholes have undercut the fuel economy program by 1 > million barrels of oil a day, the group said. > > NHTSA is expected to retain the exemption from fuel economy > requirements for trucks weighing more than 8,500 pounds, such as the > Hummer H2. > > Today's cars get double the mileage of equivalent models in the 1970s, > said Eron Shosteck, spokesman for the Alliance of Automobile > Manufacturers. While fuel economy of the average vehicle has remained > flat since the late 1980s, Shosteck said today's cars have bigger, more > powerful engines without losing fuel economy. > > "Automakers can do one part of the equation: They provide the > vehicles," Shosteck said. "They don't have control over the other part, > what people buy and how they drive." > --- > > Patrick > '93 Cobra > |
#3
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EPA Changing Fuel Rules
In article <IQRef.22188$5R4.3402@trnddc06>, JERRY HALL wrote:
> Isn't that the whole point; sell more of the fuel efficient cars, and fewer > gas hogs? The point was the government trying to control our choice in vehicles. If the point was to encourage fuel efficient vehicles, a huge tax on fuel offset by a reduction in tax on income would be the way to go. But instead of that, the government buracrats who think they know what's best for us decided on CAFE to eliminate the large passenger car. After all, if automakers don't make them, we can't buy them. Well it worked. The large passenger car models were reduced to a scant few by 1986. Trouble is, people still wanted the room so they started buying enclosed trucks. Nothing encourages more fuel effecient vehicles than high fuel prices. If we as a nation consider consumption to be bad, we should stop taxing income and start taxing consumption. |
#5
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EPA Changing Fuel Rules
In article >, Spike wrote:
>>Nothing encourages more fuel effecient vehicles than high fuel prices. If >>we as a nation consider consumption to be bad, we should stop taxing >>income and start taxing consumption. > But who gets hurt? No matter what you do, add one tax and eliminate > another, you're hitting the ones who can least afford it. Well, if you want to reduce consumption, that's what you do. Not come up with half-assed schemes to restrict market choices. If you don't like the implications of it, then maybe government should butt out entirely. Do you really want the government telling you what you can drive? Because one of the first cars the government will eliminate is the Ford Mustang. Hell, it's practically dumb luck the Mustang survived CAFE. Remember the probe? The mazda platform car that was supposed to be the mustang for 1989? <idiotcy about mass killing> Ya, know, that is uncalled for. |
#6
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EPA Changing Fuel Rules
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 02:31:50 -0600,
(Brent P) wrote: >In article >, Spike wrote: > >>>Nothing encourages more fuel effecient vehicles than high fuel prices. If >>>we as a nation consider consumption to be bad, we should stop taxing >>>income and start taxing consumption. > >> But who gets hurt? No matter what you do, add one tax and eliminate >> another, you're hitting the ones who can least afford it. > >Well, if you want to reduce consumption, that's what you do. Not come up >with half-assed schemes to restrict market choices. If you don't like the >implications of it, then maybe government should butt out entirely. > >Do you really want the government telling you what you can drive? Because >one of the first cars the government will eliminate is the Ford Mustang. > >Hell, it's practically dumb luck the Mustang survived CAFE. Remember the >probe? The mazda platform car that was supposed to be the mustang for >1989? > ><idiotcy about mass killing> > >Ya, know, that is uncalled for. no problemo... it was intended idiocy.. > > > but hopefully you see the point. It might seem that there is a simple answer to the problem, but such is rarely the case. Life is so interwoven that when you change one thing, it begins a domino affect that usually has impacts which were not even considered. Like California's special non-emission fuels. Good idea. Clean the air. So the price goes up "a little" on top of the federal tax. Then they discover that the fuel actually ruins engines, especially 18 wheeler engines. That leads to higher repair costs for fleet maintenance, and those are passed on to the consumer. So, indirectly, that "a little" is increased. And they find that it not only does not help clean the air, it actually causes more environmental problems. So, California gets smart and says ditch that junk. Ah, but in steps the EPA who tells California, it has BIG problems with the feds if they quit the special fuel. So the fuel is continued... causing more damage. Add to that, that truckers who work within California are required to use the fuel which messes everything up, but truckers from out of state fill up before entering the state, and again when they leave. So, add in lost revenues for truck stops. As I recall, the last ruling said California had to use up all the stocks, but did not have to mandate the production of more. It's still being used up today. And that's just for vehicles... in only one state. There is still the home heating situation across the northern tier states. No, I don't like government deep in my daily existence. Unfortunately, a lot of people with good intentions end up causing the government to intrude. Such cases include the gun ownership issue, recruiters on campus, religious symbols on public property, etc. If the founding fathers could see what has become of the nation they'd rise up out of their graves and lynch us all. Saw a woman in Seattle who was fighting military recruitment who said she sees much to die for but nothing worth killing for.... -- Spike 1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok; Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound audio-video... See my ride at.... Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg |
#7
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EPA Changing Fuel Rules
In article >, Spike wrote:
> but hopefully you see the point. It might seem that there is a simple > answer to the problem, but such is rarely the case. Life is so > interwoven that when you change one thing, it begins a domino affect > that usually has impacts which were not even considered. Obviously you are not seeing mine. I am not making a case of a simple solution. I am saying what achieves the goal. CAFE has resulted in LOWER fuel economy on a fleet wide average because instead of big passenger cars, we have passenger trucks. CAFE has not achieved reduced consumption. What's the goal? To control people's choices or reduce consumption? Government needs to stop trying to control people, stop trying to limit people. > No, I don't like government deep in my daily existence. Unfortunately, > a lot of people with good intentions end up causing the government to > intrude. And that will lead us to tyranny. This country has way too many control freaks who think that everything will be well if they can force everyone else to make the same choices they do. |
#8
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EPA Changing Fuel Rules
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 02:19:01 -0600,
(Brent P) wrote: >In article >, Spike wrote: > >> but hopefully you see the point. It might seem that there is a simple >> answer to the problem, but such is rarely the case. Life is so >> interwoven that when you change one thing, it begins a domino affect >> that usually has impacts which were not even considered. > >Obviously you are not seeing mine. I am not making a case of a simple >solution. I am saying what achieves the goal. CAFE has resulted in LOWER >fuel economy on a fleet wide average because instead of big passenger >cars, we have passenger trucks. CAFE has not achieved reduced consumption. > >What's the goal? To control people's choices or reduce consumption? > >Government needs to stop trying to control people, stop trying to limit >people. > > >> No, I don't like government deep in my daily existence. Unfortunately, >> a lot of people with good intentions end up causing the government to >> intrude. > >And that will lead us to tyranny. > >This country has way too many control freaks who think that everything >will be well if they can force everyone else to make the same choices >they do. And if you don't have some of that you have anarchy.... Thank heaven we have the 9th Circuit Court to help screw things up.... -- Spike 1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok; Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound audio-video... See my ride at.... Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg |
#9
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EPA Changing Fuel Rules
In article >, Spike wrote:
>>And that will lead us to tyranny. >> >>This country has way too many control freaks who think that everything >>will be well if they can force everyone else to make the same choices >>they do. > And if you don't have some of that you have anarchy.... Not at all. There is no need to control people's personal decisions. > Thank heaven we have the 9th Circuit Court to help screw things up.... So long as you want the USA to continue towards tryanny. Keep pushing for solutions like CAFE, and soon there will be no more mustangs. After all, there are people who don't like cars like this and they may act to prevent you from owning such a vehicle. |
#10
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EPA Changing Fuel Rules
On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 16:32:55 -0600,
(Brent P) wrote: >In article >, Spike wrote: > >>>And that will lead us to tyranny. >>> >>>This country has way too many control freaks who think that everything >>>will be well if they can force everyone else to make the same choices >>>they do. > >> And if you don't have some of that you have anarchy.... > >Not at all. There is no need to control people's personal decisions. > >> Thank heaven we have the 9th Circuit Court to help screw things up.... > >So long as you want the USA to continue towards tryanny. > > >Keep pushing for solutions like CAFE, and soon there will be no more >mustangs. After all, there are people who don't like cars like this and >they may act to prevent you from owning such a vehicle. > No need to control people's personal decisions? It's my decision to shoot your dog because it barked all night. That's OK? It's my decision not to put my garbage out at the curb, but let it accumulate in my house where rats and roaches breed and spread to my neighbors homes. That's OK? In society, people's personal decisions are restricted in many ways for the good of the society. That is what government is for. The degree of intrusion is viewed differently depending on which side of the fence you view it from. For example, a non-smoke might view restrictions on smoking as not going far enough if it's allowed at all, while a smoker would feel it has gone too far when there is even a limited amount of restriction. This is not to say that all such restrictions are a good thing, but, there are many restrictions of personal choice which are necessary to keep society from chaos. While you might be vehemently opposed to things like CAFE, I am sure there must be those on the other side who support it. So. Who becomes the final arbiter? You? Me? The wino living under the overpass? Or a governmental body representing the best interests of all of the people and not just a select group. Granted, there is a lot where it doesn't work the way it should, but, what is the option? We might not have a perfect system, but it is about the best system available. -- Spike 1965 Ford Mustang Fastback 2+2, Vintage Burgundy w/Black Std Interior, A Code 289 C4 Trac-Lok; Vintage 40 16" rims w/225/50ZR16 KDWS BF Goodrich gForce Radial T/As, Cobra drop; surround sound audio-video... See my ride at.... Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/003_May_21_3004.jpg Feb 2004- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/005_May_21_2004.jpg Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/d..._11_05_002.jpg Jul 2005- http://207.36.208.198/albums/86810/E...ebuild_006.jpg |
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