Help with GPL Kyalami

My chair time with GPL is about a year spread out over several years.
I'm using twin joysticks (left for throttle/brake, right for steer),
and can't use brake and throttle at the same time, so 1 clutch is
too loose on the coast side (even with xx/30/1), so I'm using
85/60/5. There are many laps in the 1:18.xx range with this type
of setup, and I'm only looking for a sub 1:20.50, but I'm just
not quite getting it. There are sessions where I get a lot of
low 1:21's and other's where I'm almost 1/2 second slower. So
I'm having a problem with consistency. I get one or two sub
1:21's runs a day. I've updated my zip file, if anyone could
take a look at my replays and see where I can improve on my
driving. I don't think a setup is going to make much difference
where I'm at right now.

http://jeffareid.net/gpl/jrkl.zip

"Jeff Reid" > wrote in message
news:_z9Vg.3103$ef2.2967@fed1read09...
> My chair time with GPL is about a year spread out over several years.
> I'm using twin joysticks (left for throttle/brake, right for steer),
> and can't use brake and throttle at the same time, so 1 clutch is
> too loose on the coast side (even with xx/30/1), so I'm using
> 85/60/5. There are many laps in the 1:18.xx range with this type
> of setup, and I'm only looking for a sub 1:20.50, but I'm just
> not quite getting it. There are sessions where I get a lot of
> low 1:21's and other's where I'm almost 1/2 second slower. So
> I'm having a problem with consistency. I get one or two sub
> 1:21's runs a day. I've updated my zip file, if anyone could
> take a look at my replays and see where I can improve on my
> driving. I don't think a setup is going to make much difference
> where I'm at right now.
>
> http://jeffareid.net/gpl/jrkl.zip


Well one thing on a few turns is the famous 'slow in fast out' your not
getting back on the throttle fast enough, get back on it earlier and dont
boot it so hard. You seem to go from no throttle to full too fast, you
should be accellerating as soon as you've stopped braking but only a small
amount, increase this as you exit the turn

IMO your main prob is your setup... GPL is designed to been driven with a
wheel, they're cheep enough, go out and buy on, change your diff to 70/45 2
and your BB to 52%, you'll have a 19 in no time

> Well one thing on a few turns is the famous 'slow in fast out' your not getting
> back on the throttle fast enough, get back on it earlier and dont boot it so
> hard. You seem to go from no throttle to full too fast, you should be
> accellerating as soon as you've stopped braking but only a small amount,
> increase this as you exit the turn

Thanks for the input. I have a tendency to do that, especially if I start getting
tired from doing so many runs. As with most sims, it's hard to tell just how much
acceleration you're getting from throttle inputs with no forces to feel, so at
least for me, it's almost like memorizing your inputs after you get consistent.
I'm still not getting that last sharp right turn with the rise before the front
straight with the kink in it.

Another issue is what's really needed to get the last few tenths, is fast in,
slow at the apex, then fast out, for all but really high speed turns (like
the kink at Kyalami, and the fast turns at Spa and Rouen). A combination of trail
braking (which I suck at), or using coast side differential to hang out the
rear end a bit and induced understeer to scrubb off speed from corner entry to
apex.

Also related to trail braking, especially if inducing understeer (intentional
or not), is when you release the brakes, the car oversteers, when the expected
reaction would normally be understeer. The result is the car sometimes oscillates
after releasing the brakes.

In one of my videos, the 1:02.75, on turn two (the second right), I managed to
brake late, release quickly and enter the turn at just the right speed,
orientation, and without the oscillation, but I can't duplicate this response
consistently, so I take a more conservative approach.


> IMO your main prob is your setup... GPL is designed to be driven with a wheel,

I have a Momo Racing wheel with pedals, but too lazy to hook it up, as I have to
remove a center drawer, clamp on the wheel, hook up everything, ... With the twin
sticks, I have them on a clipboard that I just set to the side when not using
them. With the wheel, there's no significant difference in my steering inputs,
my throttle inputs are smoother, but my braking inputs are generally worse (with
left foot, I don't want to bust up the plastic pedals trying to switch back
and forth. However I can compensate for the braking inputs by calibrating at
100%, and reducing brake sensitivity afterwards to limit my braking inputs.

Stefan Jager was very fast with a joystick, and I assume he used a single stick
(having to control throttle/brake while steering with the same stick). I'm using
twin sticks, and they are CH USB joysticks, with a very light centering force,
so very subtle movements can be made. However, I'm using steering ratio of 20:1
and this could be a limiting factor for some of the turns.

I'll give the wheel a shot this weekend though.

> on, change your diff to 70/45/2 and your BB to 52%, you'll have a 19 in no time

Setting the diff via GRE would be the next step. Anything xx/xx/1 would be too
loose on the coast side for me, so a 60/30/1 setup didn't help much.

Once again, thanks for the advice.

A bit off topic, but in case you're curious, a pic of my twin stick setup:

http://jeffareid.net/game/cr04.jpg

I'm used to twin sticks because of radio control, transmitter:

http://jeffareid.net/rc/futaba.jpg

Couple of old videos:

http://jeffareid.net/rc/jrartms.wmv

http://jeffareid.net/rc/jr126.wmv

In article <7moVg.3349$ef2.206@fed1read09>,
says...
>
>
> Stefan Jager was very fast with a joystick, and I assume he used a single stick
> (having to control throttle/brake while steering with the same stick). I'm using
> twin sticks, and they are CH USB joysticks, with a very light centering force,
> so very subtle movements can be made. However, I'm using steering ratio of 20:1
> and this could be a limiting factor for some of the turns.
>

Yeah, there's no reason why using a stick should impede your
performance. Used to do the same with one stick for GPL and had a rank
of -50 or so and a 1:19.1 or thereabouts at Kyalami. Finally swapped to
a steering wheel and pedals some 2 or so years ago and have never been
able to match my joystick times, though I never was able to put as much
time into it as I did whilst joystick racing, yet despite this, I
personally wouldn't want to go back to using a joystick. It just
wouldn't feel the same.

--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

> Yeah, there's no reason why using a stick should impede your
> performance. Used to do the same with one stick for GPL and had a rank
> of -50 or so and a 1:19.1 or thereabouts at Kyalami. Finally swapped to
> a steering wheel and pedals some 2 or so years ago and have never been
> able to match my joystick times, though I never was able to put as much
> time into it as I did whilst joystick racing, yet despite this, I
> personally wouldn't want to go back to using a joystick. It just
> wouldn't feel the same.

One advantage of the twin sticks, especially with light centering force,
is there's very little fatigue factor. With the sticks on the clipboard,
they're almost in my lap; I rest my elbows on the arm rests, and the
sticks have ample support for the base of my hands, and I don't have
to worry about where I put my feet. I'll give the wheel a shot this
weekend though and sse how it goes. The last time I used the wheel
it didn't take too long before I was close to my best times, but I
didn't set any new bests either, but it was only a couple of sessions.