Temp

Hi all. So I just drove my project bug in to work today for the first
time. It's the first time I've had it on the freeway and the first
time I've driven it more than 10 minutes at a time. It's about a 35-40
minute drive for me in to work.

On the freeway I can roll along in 4th without hardly touching the gas
and go 65 unless I'm on a hill. That's not too bad. RPM's were low
though because of this, around 1500-2000 max.

My question though is about my engine temp. I installed a vdo 300F
temp sensor to monitor things and it got up to just over 220. It
seemed to be slowing but it's hard to say.

I don't have a history of the car so I don't know what is normal. Also
I've been told that the vdo sensors are not terribly accurate (see the
Gene Berg website for their tests involving these types of sensors).
The stock vw lights did not come on at all for temp or pressure or
generator. All good news.

My main big question is that I know there is a lot of variability to
the answer "how hot is normal". But I'm wondering if there is some
consensus about how hot is TOO HOT. How hot is engine fire hot, how
hot is pull over now hot. Assuming that my vdo sensor is pretty near
accurate, I would just like a reasonable maximum to consider as I
eyeball it.

Thanks,

Chronologic

Details I didn't but probably should have supplied:

Engine is out of a 1967 or 1968 std beetle, though car is 72 super. I
Am not sure but I think it's a single port 1600. I know it's not dual
ported.

Sensor is the VDO 300F installed with a T adapter with the stock oil
pressure sensor. I am not sure where that puts it in the line, but you
probably know.

I checked the oil before leaving this morning, it was fine but slightly
low so I added a quarter quart. I do not have an oil filter, cooler,
or sump.

Everything else is pretty much stock, 12V, alternator, non-doghouse
style shroud and fan, std (but new) carb.

Where I'm coming from, is that I don't know if 220 would be insanely
hot and I should stop the car and run away screaming, or what. (or
even better stop it before it gets that hot). For all I know 240 is
too hot, or maybe 300. I expected around 180-190 based on reasearch.
So to me it seems like it's a little hot. But I'm not sure if it's,
you know, really hot; or if it's ok.

Thanks,

Chronologic

Chronologic wrote:

> Details I didn't but probably should have supplied:
>
> Engine is out of a 1967 or 1968 std beetle, though car is 72 super. I
> Am not sure but I think it's a single port 1600. I know it's not dual
> ported.
>
> Sensor is the VDO 300F installed with a T adapter with the stock oil
> pressure sensor. I am not sure where that puts it in the line, but you
> probably know.
>
> I checked the oil before leaving this morning, it was fine but slightly
> low so I added a quarter quart. I do not have an oil filter, cooler,
> or sump.
>
> Everything else is pretty much stock, 12V, alternator, non-doghouse
> style shroud and fan, std (but new) carb.
>
> Where I'm coming from, is that I don't know if 220 would be insanely
> hot and I should stop the car and run away screaming, or what. (or
> even better stop it before it gets that hot). For all I know 240 is
> too hot, or maybe 300. I expected around 180-190 based on reasearch.
> So to me it seems like it's a little hot. But I'm not sure if it's,
> you know, really hot; or if it's ok.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chronologic
>

It's on the high side of what I would expect, but not outrageous.
That same engine running in a Bus would easily reach 250F and
purr all day long.

I would go over the cooling system. Check that the flaps fully open
(you DO have flaps?) and that there are no blockages in the fan inlet,
like the tarboard.

It's hard to do, but if that engine sat in a garage for a while,
there could be rodent nests buried deep inside the cyl fins.
You would be surprised how ingenious those little critters can be,

Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Hey Speedy,

I think I'm safe from rodents! I had the cylinders out for inspection
last fall. I also cleaned out the fan shroud with hose and let it dry
before putting all the tin on. It did sit in the garage over the
winter so I guess there is a chance. Thanks for the idea.

Um....I'm going to have to claim semi-ignorance here. I am not sure
what you mean by flaps. My knowledge of the air passage is that it
enters from the front (FIF) of the shroud by the fan, gets pushed down
over the cylinders inside the cooling tin, and out, or if you have your
heater channels open, some of it will come into your car to heat it.

The only flaps I know about are the ones that control the heater boxes.
Those are closed, since it's summer. I can't think of any other
flaps. If you could please give me roughly where they should be and
what their basic function is I will check to see if I overlooked the
little buggers. I feel like I know the parts of the car pretty will
since I pretty much took the whole thing apart and put it back
together. But sometimes you don't know what you don't know. Maybe my
flaps were always missing....

So you are saying that if I stay below 240 I should consider it a
"problem" to be fixed, but not necessarily something to freak out
about?

Thanks,

Chronologic

Chronologic wrote:

> Hey Speedy,
>
> I think I'm safe from rodents! I had the cylinders out for inspection
> last fall. I also cleaned out the fan shroud with hose and let it dry
> before putting all the tin on. It did sit in the garage over the
> winter so I guess there is a chance. Thanks for the idea.
>
> Um....I'm going to have to claim semi-ignorance here. I am not sure
> what you mean by flaps. My knowledge of the air passage is that it
> enters from the front (FIF) of the shroud by the fan, gets pushed down
> over the cylinders inside the cooling tin, and out, or if you have your
> heater channels open, some of it will come into your car to heat it.
>
> The only flaps I know about are the ones that control the heater boxes.
> Those are closed, since it's summer. I can't think of any other
> flaps. If you could please give me roughly where they should be and
> what their basic function is I will check to see if I overlooked the
> little buggers. I feel like I know the parts of the car pretty will
> since I pretty much took the whole thing apart and put it back
> together. But sometimes you don't know what you don't know. Maybe my
> flaps were always missing....
>
> So you are saying that if I stay below 240 I should consider it a
> "problem" to be fixed, but not necessarily something to freak out
> about?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chronologic
>

http://www.geocities.com/janbugger/flaps.html
for Jan's write-up on flaps.

and:
http://www.vw-resource.com/vanes_thermostat.html

Great as usual. Thanks for the info.

Chronologic

FYI you guys are spot on every time. My bug does not have the
thermostat or the "flaps". The PO must have been one of those people
that didn't believe in them.

So I'll have to figure out how it was supposed to work and how to buy
the replacement parts.

Thanks as always to the incredible VW wizards that you are.

Chronologic

I'm glad I saw this out there, I'm putting my engine back to together
and someone told me I didn't need the flaps. I guess they were wrong.
Luckily my car still has the original thermostat. Hopefully it is
still good.

Thanks guys!

The flaps should be open if the spring is attached even if the
thermostat has been removed so it should not cause overheating. Dennis

href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4025706&a=32090944&f="Den's
Dogs</a>

href="http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=4025706&a=30209382&vt=vp">Den's
1977 Puma</a>

Hi,
I was told by a mechanic that in the seventies, it came as a
manufacture order to take those flaps out...
is it?
I'm overhuling my engine this week and I've been "arguing" with him -
he said it can make troubles... "maybe the thermostat will stop working
etc". I thought maybe i'll put a cable to it - and do it manually...
(helped by a temp gauge).
what do you think ?

nachche