Tegger changes his shocks

Now that was an experience. I re-used the old springs and top caps.

I had to fabricate my own spring compressor, as I couldn't find anything on
the market for those skinny Honda springs. I did have a bit of help from a
supplier of ours that does laser cutting. They cut the top plate from my
CAD file and their 3/16" steel. See the photos below.

Had over 300K on the original dampers. The rears were a bit soft compared
to the new ones, but still functional. The fronts were absolutely nuked.
The old "bounce test" does not tell you anything, I've found. Both fronts
were sticky and the left one had barfed out all its fluid.

The car's behavior with the new shocks (OEM Showa, over $800!) has to be
felt to be believed. You have NO idea how bad your old shocks are until you
replace them.

Pics here. I'm too lazy to turn this into a Web page just now.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/damper_replace/



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

First you get a new cat named "Walker" to replace Rusty, and now you're
finally changing your socks.

What's next?? New belt and suspenders?

;-)

Tegger wrote:
> Now that was an experience. I re-used the old springs and top caps.
>
> I had to fabricate my own spring compressor, as I couldn't find anything on
> the market for those skinny Honda springs. I did have a bit of help from a
> supplier of ours that does laser cutting. They cut the top plate from my
> CAD file and their 3/16" steel. See the photos below.
>
> Had over 300K on the original dampers. The rears were a bit soft compared
> to the new ones, but still functional. The fronts were absolutely nuked.
> The old "bounce test" does not tell you anything, I've found. Both fronts
> were sticky and the left one had barfed out all its fluid.
>
> The car's behavior with the new shocks (OEM Showa, over $800!) has to be
> felt to be believed. You have NO idea how bad your old shocks are until you
> replace them.

indeed. japanese oem last a long time though.


>
> Pics here. I'm too lazy to turn this into a Web page just now.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/damper_replace/
>
>
>

lovely job on the spring compressor!

jim beam > wrote in
:

> Tegger wrote:
>> Now that was an experience. I re-used the old springs and top caps.
>>
>> I had to fabricate my own spring compressor, as I couldn't find
>> anything on the market for those skinny Honda springs. I did have a
>> bit of help from a supplier of ours that does laser cutting. They cut
>> the top plate from my CAD file and their 3/16" steel. See the photos
>> below.
>>
>> Had over 300K on the original dampers. The rears were a bit soft
>> compared to the new ones, but still functional. The fronts were
>> absolutely nuked. The old "bounce test" does not tell you anything,
>> I've found. Both fronts were sticky and the left one had barfed out
>> all its fluid.
>>
>> The car's behavior with the new shocks (OEM Showa, over $800!) has to
>> be felt to be believed. You have NO idea how bad your old shocks are
>> until you replace them.
>
> indeed. japanese oem last a long time though.



I've found that the more Honda parts cost, the longer they're meant to
last.



>
>
>>
>> Pics here. I'm too lazy to turn this into a Web page just now.
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/damper_replace/
>>
>>
>>
>
> lovely job on the spring compressor!



Thanks. It worked really, really well.

The Honda shop manual showed a line-drawing diagram (you know the kind)
of the compressor in action, which is where I got the basic design.
Images in the Honda manual that show tools typically call out a part
number for the tool, but this one simply said "commercially available".
Well, I couldn't find one commercially /anywhere/, not even at Snap-On,
so I made up my own.

The top plate was laser-cut from 3/16" steel supplied by our die-maker.
I provided the CAD file based on micrometer measurements taken from my
car, plus my own guesses as to how the thing should look and be sized.
The rest of the material was off-the-shelf stuff at Home Depot (bolts,
nuts, threaded rod, flat stock, etc...)

I did also use our supplier's bending equipment to put the bends in the
flat stock that makes up the clamp at the bottom of the tool. This
bending equipment is very similar to a manual sheet metal brake, but is
meant for thick flat stock less than 2.5" in width. Doing it this way,
holding the part against a paper CAD printout after each bend, enabled
me to quickly achieve an accuracy I would have had difficulty holding
using heat, which was my original idea. The bolt holes were hand-drilled
without the aid of a drill-press. This was time-consuming.

Some random observations...
- Laser-cutting is a narrowly-focused (ha ha) business. When you change
materials, you need to change gases and piece support structures. Wood
and steel, for example, require totally different setups.
- My annual rust-proofing treatment makes a hell of a mess everywhere,
but it certainly does retard rust. The springs cleaned up to like-new,
with the odd rust patch here and there. You can still clearly see the
factory's calibration markings (the paint dabs). Deposits on the rear
springs were harder to remove, so I gave up before they were completely
clean.
- The shocks all have HONDA/SHOWA lightly stamped into them; hard to
see. The originals had their part numbers printed on. The replacements
have paper stickers with the part numbers.
- You REALLY need to get the top caps lined up properly, otherwise
you'll never get the lower suspension bolt to engage.
- Cleanliness is essential, believe it or not. Dirt trapped between
mating surfaces will cause major problems.
- More than ever, I regard my $200 purchase of my DeWalt DW-293 electric
impact gun as one of the best tool purchases I've ever made. This thing
is awesomely effective in making light work of ANY bolt I've EVER tried
it on. It has never failed to undo any bolt I've been able to attack
directly, without use of extensions. I HIGHLY recommend one for anybody
doing his own work.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Howard Lester" > wrote in
acomip:

> First you get a new cat named "Walker" to replace Rusty, and now you're
> finally changing your socks.
>
> What's next?? New belt and suspenders?
>
> ;-)
>



I guess you could say the car /does/ have new suspenders... Plus I put in a
new timing belt this spring, so...

I'm really concerned that Walker may cough up a hairball at smog check
time. Might spend $40 to check her out before I need to...




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Tegger" > wrote in message
...
> Had over 300K on the original dampers. The rears were a bit soft compared
> to the new ones, but still functional. The fronts were absolutely nuked.
> The old "bounce test" does not tell you anything, I've found. Both fronts
> were sticky and the left one had barfed out all its fluid.

If you agree that the bounce test does not tell you anything you might
wonder how long are you have been driving on dead shocks... Maybe they were
good for 100k only and the rest 200k was just bad shocks :-)

> The car's behavior with the new shocks (OEM Showa, over $800!) has to be
> felt to be believed. You have NO idea how bad your old shocks are until
> you
> replace them.

$800 - ouch!

Most of people replace dead shocks with a new ones... The difference is hard
to be believed, of course. I always wondered how much difference is there
between *new* shocks of different brands. Never had enough determinance and
money on hand to do a test. I wonder if the difference between shocks made
by A and similar made by B are even noticable when shocks are put on a
car...

> Pics here. I'm too lazy to turn this into a Web page just now.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/damper_replace/

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...ompressor1.jpg

I can tell it was major pain to move this plate down by hand with so much
thread to work with... Your regular spring compressor available at Autozone
has much, much coarser thread and even with this one I used air wrench to
speed up cranking down and up the threads when I worked on my toyota
camry... I guess I am very impatient ;-)

What are these two pointy bolts on both sides of the center hole? Are these
the studs connecting to the chassis? I had 3 of them in my toyota.

Pszemol wrote:
> "Tegger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Had over 300K on the original dampers. The rears were a bit soft compared
>> to the new ones, but still functional. The fronts were absolutely nuked.
>> The old "bounce test" does not tell you anything, I've found. Both fronts
>> were sticky and the left one had barfed out all its fluid.
>
> If you agree that the bounce test does not tell you anything you might
> wonder how long are you have been driving on dead shocks... Maybe they
> were good for 100k only and the rest 200k was just bad shocks :-)
>
>> The car's behavior with the new shocks (OEM Showa, over $800!) has to be
>> felt to be believed. You have NO idea how bad your old shocks are
>> until you
>> replace them.
>
> $800 - ouch!
>
> Most of people replace dead shocks with a new ones... The difference is
> hard to be believed, of course. I always wondered how much difference is
> there between *new* shocks of different brands. Never had enough
> determinance and money on hand to do a test.

er, so why exactly are you bothering to post? what are you bringing to
the conversation???




> I wonder if the difference
> between shocks made by A and similar made by B are even noticable when
> shocks are put on a car...

sure you wonder. you wonder so much you don't try anything for
yourself, and you don't even bother to look anything up on the web, even
though you have internet and apparently endless time on your hands to
post inane drivel.



>
>> Pics here. I'm too lazy to turn this into a Web page just now.
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/damper_replace/
>
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/...ompressor1.jpg
>
>
> I can tell it was major pain to move this plate down by hand with so
> much thread to work with... Your regular spring compressor available at
> Autozone has much, much coarser thread and even with this one I used air
> wrench to speed up cranking down and up the threads when I worked on my
> toyota camry... I guess I am very impatient ;-)

er, if you'd bothered to read tegger's original post, he told you
/exactly/ why he made this spring compressor and /didn't/ bother with a
generic...


>
> What are these two pointy bolts on both sides of the center hole? Are
> these the studs connecting to the chassis? I had 3 of them in my toyota.

jeepers - your apparent difficulty in under-hood component recognition
is not a function of dirt accumulation.

"jim beam" > wrote in message
t...
> er, so why exactly are you bothering to post?
> what are you bringing to the conversation???

Bugger off, jimmy!

What are YOU bringing to the conversation with your comments
like this one:

" indeed. japanese oem last a long time though. "

or this one:

"lovely job on the spring compressor" ? Get off my back!


My main point in the post to Tegger was the question about
how does he know the original shocks lasted 300k if he himself
admits that the results of the bounce test (that he obviously
used to evaluate his shocks) cannot be trusted? How can he
know that his shocks did not give up 100k or 200k miles ago?
I certainly did not know if mine lasted 240k on my camry...

But you, blinded with some obsesion to jump on my back
every time I write something here, you haven't notice this...
That's ok - I am not going to cry because some Jimmy
does not understand every sentence from text he reads.

"Pszemol" > wrote in
:

> "Tegger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Had over 300K on the original dampers. The rears were a bit soft
>> compared to the new ones, but still functional. The fronts were
>> absolutely nuked. The old "bounce test" does not tell you anything,
>> I've found. Both fronts were sticky and the left one had barfed out
>> all its fluid.
>
> If you agree that the bounce test does not tell you anything you might
> wonder how long are you have been driving on dead shocks... Maybe they
> were good for 100k only and the rest 200k was just bad shocks :-)




Yes, I did (and still do) wonder exactly that.

However, the left front had gotten suddenly really rubbery over about a
month, which suggests that it was still somewhat operational up to that
point.

It's a LOT harder to bounce the corners of the car now, especially the
fronts. I only weigh 180 lbs though, so it might be easier to bounce
them if I was heavier. The dead shock on the left front was very easy to
bounce.




>
>> The car's behavior with the new shocks (OEM Showa, over $800!) has to
>> be felt to be believed. You have NO idea how bad your old shocks are
>> until you
>> replace them.
>
> $800 - ouch!
>
> Most of people replace dead shocks with a new ones... The difference
> is hard to be believed, of course. I always wondered how much
> difference is there between *new* shocks of different brands. Never
> had enough determinance and money on hand to do a test. I wonder if
> the difference between shocks made by A and similar made by B are even
> noticable when shocks are put on a car...




Don't know and don't care. I hate aftermarket and will not install such
on my car.



>
>> Pics here. I'm too lazy to turn this into a Web page just now.
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/damper_replace/
>
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/.../8-rt-frt-top-
> compres
> sor1.jpg
>
> I can tell it was major pain to move this plate down by hand with so
> much thread to work with...



There's so much thread because I never bothered shortening the threaded
rod I bought from Home Depot (36" long). I could have taken a /lot/ off
them if I could have been bothered to.

The plate only needed to move up or down a couple of inches or so each
time, which was easily accomplished with the wrench I used. That wrench
had a ratchet in its closed end, so it as just a matter of waggling my
hand back and forth rapidly, wrench between my fingers.



> Your regular spring compressor available
> at Autozone has much, much coarser thread and even with this one I
> used air wrench to speed up cranking down and up the threads when I
> worked on my toyota camry... I guess I am very impatient ;-)



Those generic MacPherson-strut compressors do not work on the springs on
non-MacPherson-strut dampers. Honda non-strut dampers have springs that
are way too tight and closely wound to get the claws of standard
compressors between the coils.




>
> What are these two pointy bolts on both sides of the center hole? Are
> these the studs connecting to the chassis? I had 3 of them in my
> toyota.
>


That's what they are. Since my suspension does not use the damper
mountings as locating members, they basically just have to keep the
damper top from bouncing around, which doesn't take much.

What you see in the photos is the first damper I did. I discovered then
that I didn't need to put the nuts back when I installed the assembly in
the compressor, so they were left off for the other three assemblies.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Tegger wrote:
> "Pszemol" > wrote in
> :
>
>> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Had over 300K on the original dampers. The rears were a bit soft
>>> compared to the new ones, but still functional. The fronts were
>>> absolutely nuked. The old "bounce test" does not tell you anything,
>>> I've found. Both fronts were sticky and the left one had barfed out
>>> all its fluid.
>> If you agree that the bounce test does not tell you anything you might
>> wonder how long are you have been driving on dead shocks... Maybe they
>> were good for 100k only and the rest 200k was just bad shocks :-)
>
>
>
>
> Yes, I did (and still do) wonder exactly that.
>
> However, the left front had gotten suddenly really rubbery over about a
> month, which suggests that it was still somewhat operational up to that
> point.
>
> It's a LOT harder to bounce the corners of the car now, especially the
> fronts. I only weigh 180 lbs though, so it might be easier to bounce
> them if I was heavier. The dead shock on the left front was very easy to
> bounce.
>
>
>
>
>>> The car's behavior with the new shocks (OEM Showa, over $800!) has to
>>> be felt to be believed. You have NO idea how bad your old shocks are
>>> until you
>>> replace them.
>> $800 - ouch!
>>
>> Most of people replace dead shocks with a new ones... The difference
>> is hard to be believed, of course. I always wondered how much
>> difference is there between *new* shocks of different brands. Never
>> had enough determinance and money on hand to do a test. I wonder if
>> the difference between shocks made by A and similar made by B are even
>> noticable when shocks are put on a car...
>
>
>
>
> Don't know and don't care. I hate aftermarket and will not install such
> on my car.
>
>
>
>>> Pics here. I'm too lazy to turn this into a Web page just now.
>>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/damper_replace/
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/.../8-rt-frt-top-
>> compres
>> sor1.jpg
>>
>> I can tell it was major pain to move this plate down by hand with so
>> much thread to work with...
>
>
>
> There's so much thread because I never bothered shortening the threaded
> rod I bought from Home Depot (36" long). I could have taken a /lot/ off
> them if I could have been bothered to.
>
> The plate only needed to move up or down a couple of inches or so each
> time, which was easily accomplished with the wrench I used. That wrench
> had a ratchet in its closed end, so it as just a matter of waggling my
> hand back and forth rapidly, wrench between my fingers.
>
>
>
>> Your regular spring compressor available
>> at Autozone has much, much coarser thread and even with this one I
>> used air wrench to speed up cranking down and up the threads when I
>> worked on my toyota camry... I guess I am very impatient ;-)
>
>
>
> Those generic MacPherson-strut compressors do not work on the springs on
> non-MacPherson-strut dampers. Honda non-strut dampers have springs that
> are way too tight and closely wound to get the claws of standard
> compressors between the coils.

there's another benefit also: by grabbing the coils directly, the
surface of the springs can be damaged. these can be fatigue initiation
points. designs such as yours that only compress on the designed load
points completely eliminate this possibility.



>
>
>
>
>> What are these two pointy bolts on both sides of the center hole? Are
>> these the studs connecting to the chassis? I had 3 of them in my
>> toyota.
>>
>
>
> That's what they are. Since my suspension does not use the damper
> mountings as locating members, they basically just have to keep the
> damper top from bouncing around, which doesn't take much.
>
> What you see in the photos is the first damper I did. I discovered then
> that I didn't need to put the nuts back when I installed the assembly in
> the compressor, so they were left off for the other three assemblies.
>
>
>