Import owners are to blame for the recession

C. E. White wrote:

> You haven't met my older Sister - Ford, Honda, VW, Honda, Toyota. She
> keep saying never again to whatever she is driving at the moment. Or my
> other sister - Ford, Ford, Mazda, VW, Ford, Toyota. She changes with the
> wind. Or my SO - Nissan, For, Toyota, Plymouth,Toyota. She likes Toyotas
> (but doesn't really have a reason). Toyotas are in this year....and they
> all agree NO VWs.

I had three VWs. Some people were amazed that I bought a second one,
since my 1979 Rabbit had a huge number of problems (though after 100K
miles the infant failures were worked out and it went another 100K
before I sold it). Subsequent VWs were purchased with the express
knowledge that they'd be less reliable than their Japanese competitors.
The VWs had much better handling; very fun cars to drive on windy
mountain roads. Roof racks for bicycle and skis worked much better
because VW worked with Thule to create a seamless system that didn't
contact the roof surface for support. The standard engines were
non-interference and very robust. Maintenance was cheap because VW parts
are made by a lot of after-market companies around the world. It was
easy to do oil changes (and tune-ups on the earlier ones). The paint was
far better than the crap on Hondas.

VW seems to go in cycles. Now they have the amazing TDI Jetta that gets
like 58mpg, and is still a real car (unlike a Prius).

That is not factual! Manufactures do NOT sell to rental fleets at a 'huge
discounts!' The fleet discount is available on vehicles from just about
every manufacturer, foreign and
domestic. Every domestic vehicle sold to fleets is sold by individual
dealerships. Imports love to sell to fleets it is just that they are not
very successful at doing so, except to rental fleets. The Korans do a
better job than the Japs however. Most courier cars are Korean or
domestics

The average fleet discount is around $600 to $800 per vehicle. Rental car
companies are eligible for the fleet discount. Contrary to what many seem
to believe manufactures can NOT sell directly to fleets, or any other buyer
for that matter, except their franchised dealership because of US franchise
laws. The ONLY exception is Toyota. Toyota, because it sells to
distributorships, who then sell to the dealerships, they CAN and do sell
directly to fleets.

Toyota was dumping its poor selling Camry Solaras to Hertz in 2007, at way
below dealer invoice, in an effort to keep the Camry as the number one
selling car at the time because the Accord was out selling the Camry.
During 2008 Toyota was dumping Solaras and Tundra as well. Tundras were
selling, for months, at the Manheim Auctions for as low as 25K because of
its dismal sales.

"C. E. White" > wrote in message
news:494946fd$1@kcnews01...
>
> "SMS" > wrote in message
s.
>
>> Finally, there's the rental car problem. Almost every time you rent a
>> vehicle in the U.S., you get a bottom of the line American nameplate
>> vehicle that the manufacturer had equipped specifically for the rental
>> market, and which is sold to the rental agency at a very low price. You
>> drive these cars and you think that nothing has changed from the 1970's.
>> On the rare occasions that the rental agency has a Toyota, Subaru, or
>> Nissan, it's a regular production model that hasn't been decontented, and
>> it's often a "free upgrade" because the agency is out of what the renter
>> requested.

Can't prove that by me. Since I stopped buying foreign cars I have owned a
dozen or so Ford Motor Company vehicles. I have not ever had a single
problem with any ot them.


"CharlesTheCurmudgeon" > wrote in message
...
>
> "me" > wrote in message
>> All that said though, it's not actual quality that is the issue. It's
>> the public perception of quality. They have a long way to go before
>> they start to gain a reputation for quality though and they've had
>> some big missteps that have reduced that reputation back the starting
>> point for many buyers. The general public's perception, based on many
>> years of Ford producing low quality cars, is still one of poor quality
>> products.
>>
>
> If you keep getting burned over and over again, you learn not to put your
> hand on a hot stove.
>
> Sir Charles the Curmudgeon
>

Can't prove that by me! The only vehicle I owned in the past ten years that
had any problems was a '97 Lexus.
"Gosi" > wrote in message
...
> On 17 Dec, 12:20, "C. E. White" > wrote:
>> "me" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>> > All that said though, it's not actual quality that is the issue.
>> > It's
>> > the public perception of quality. They have a long way to go before
>> > they start to gain a reputation for quality though and they've had
>> > some big missteps that have reduced that reputation back the
>> > starting
>> > point for many buyers. The general public's perception, based on
>> > many
>> > years of Ford producing low quality cars, is still one of poor
>> > quality
>> > products.
>>
>> It never seems to hurt Toyota. They have produced some of the least
>> reliable, lowest quality cars ever sold in this country, yet they now
>> seem to be the "gold" standard for quality. Are people's memories that
>> short?
>>
>> Ed
>
> "Japanese brands are still the ones to beat. Of the 47 vehicles with
> the highest predicted reliability, 39 are Japanese. Of those, all but
> seven are made by Toyota or Honda."
>
> "Twenty of the "Least Reliable" vehicles are domestic models and just
> five, all from Nissan, are Japanese."

What makes you believe those with a lower build quality rating when new will
IMPROVE with age? LOL


"Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message
news
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:33:35 -0500, me wrote:
>
>>>Ford had more vehicles in the J.D. Powers to ten quality rating than
>>>any other maker. Lincoln comes in tops with owner satisfation.
>>
>> JD Powers is very short term. Owner Satisfaction is very subjective.
>> Most people I know keep their cars longer than three years and judge
>> on other criteria.
>
> And if you listen carefully to the ads, it says "Initial quality." That
> means, the quality experience of the owner when he first takes delivery of
> the car.
>
>
>

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:18:14 -0500, me wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:26:07 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
> <mikehunt2@lycos/com> a convicted TOP POSTER wrote:
>
>>
>>"Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message
>>news
>>> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:33:35 -0500, me wrote:
>>>
>>> And if you listen carefully to the ads, it says "Initial quality." That
>>> means, the quality experience of the owner when he first takes delivery of
>>> the car.
>>>
> [ top post corrected; you really need to work on that]
>
>>What makes you believe those with a lower build quality rating when new will
>>IMPROVE with age? LOL
>>
>
> There's a big difference in the quality problems at delivery and the
> reliability problems over the life of the vehicle.
>
> I don't know about you, but I've never seen major problems on any
> vehicle before 16-17K miles. Most motor or transmission design issues
> show up at 50K+ miles, as do most suspension issues, accessory issues,
> electrical issues, etc. Before that, all you generally see are
> premature failure of wear items. All of that is long past the JD
> Powers survey time frame.

They used to have a Long-Term survey, but that didn't make *SOME*
carmakers look good (because Toyota and Honda kept coming out on top) so
they don't discuss those...

On Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:26:07 -0500, "Mike Hunter"
<mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote:

>What makes you believe those with a lower build quality rating when new will
>IMPROVE with age? LOL

JDP "Initial Quality Survey" is a joke. "Not enough cup holders" is a
defect.

"In particular, issues with difficult-to-use audio and entertainment
controls and voice command recognition failure are among the top ten
problems most frequently reported by customers. Since hands-free
communication for drivers will become a mandate in more and more areas
throughout the U.S., this will need to be an area of continued focus
for automakers."

<http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?id=2008063>

The "Long Term Dependability Survey" is equally subjective.

"The study also finds that five of the top 10 problems reported
industry-wide in the 2008 Vehicle Dependability Study were also among
the top 10 most frequently reported problems in the 2005 Initial
Quality Study, suggesting that the problems are identified by owners
during the initial ownership period, but have not been rectified by
automakers during the three-year ownership period.

The problems include:

1. Excessive wind noise
2. Noisy brakes
3. Vehicle pulling to the left or right
4. Issues with the instrument panel/dashboard
5. Excessive window fogging"

<http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008115>


>
>
>"Hachiroku ????" > wrote in message
>news
>> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:33:35 -0500, me wrote:
>>
>>>>Ford had more vehicles in the J.D. Powers to ten quality rating than
>>>>any other maker. Lincoln comes in tops with owner satisfation.
>>>
>>> JD Powers is very short term. Owner Satisfaction is very subjective.
>>> Most people I know keep their cars longer than three years and judge
>>> on other criteria.
>>
>> And if you listen carefully to the ads, it says "Initial quality." That
>> means, the quality experience of the owner when he first takes delivery of
>> the car.
>>
>>
>>
>

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:35:16 -0500, "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com>
wrote:

>You as an American taxpayer should consider the fact Japanese corporations
>do not pay US federal Corporate income taxes on the profits earned in the
>US.

Pfft, why should they? US corporations don't.

> Chrysler, on the other hand, when it was a German Corporation DID pay
>US federal Corporate income taxes on the profits made on the Chryslers sold
>in the US. Tax laws between the US and Europe and the US and Japan are
>not the same.

Well, they sure aren't paying any taxes now.

>As to the Chevy Suburban, Honda, comparison the Suburban uses 85% American
>parts and the Honda uses far less and I doubt the poster owned both

On the other hand, the Suburban burns a lot more Arab oil.

I don't know if the OP owns both of these vehicles but it is safe to
say that they are not often cross-shopped. So if one was considering
a Ford Fusion (50% Domestic) and a Honda Civic (70% Domestic), which
should they choose?




>
>
>.com> wrote in message news
>> "Marko" > wrote:
>>
>>>"AJL" wrote:
>>
>>>> My Chevy Suburban was made in Mexico. My Honda was made in the USA.
>>>> Both have parts made all over the world. What exactly is an American
>>>> car?
>>
>>>Honda is japanese company registered in Japan...
>>
>> So when Chrysler was a German company registered in Germany it wasn't
>> an American car?
>>
>

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 13:14:49 -0500, "C. E. White"
> wrote:

>
>"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote in message
.. .
>> Denial is not a river is Egypt
>
>My point exactly. You make up crap and when it is pointed out you run
>and hide. Stand up, prove it for a change. I know you won't, becasue
>it isn't true. You probably know that also. Next reply from you will
>be something like - "I don't do research for others," or "based on my
>ten million years of experience in all industries doing everythign I
>am absolutely right".

And he will top post it.


>>
>> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
>> news:493eacd1$1@kcnews01...
>>>
>>> "Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> You as an American taxpayer should consider the fact Japanese
>>>> corporations do not pay US federal Corporate income taxes on the
>>>> profits earned in the US.
>>>
>>> This is not true. Saying it over and over again doesn't make it
>>> true either.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>
>>

On Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:27:25 -0600, Gordon McGrew wrote:

>>What makes you believe those with a lower build quality rating when new will
>>IMPROVE with age? LOL
>
> JDP "Initial Quality Survey" is a joke. "Not enough cup holders" is a
> defect.


True, that. Almost any company can pass an 'initial quality' survey. Even
VW...



>
> "In particular, issues with difficult-to-use audio and entertainment
> controls and voice command recognition failure are among the top ten
> problems most frequently reported by customers. Since hands-free
> communication for drivers will become a mandate in more and more areas
> throughout the U.S., this will need to be an area of continued focus
> for automakers."


Works for me...

http://celladdons.1st-found.com/imag...4/NNTN5071.jpg

$7.99 I have the phone mounted to the dash. My Sony phone has a jack I can
plug into the stereo that makes it truly hands-free.