VW Losses in North America

As a person who has been a VW guy since I was a little kid in the 1960's, I
am very concerned with what I read in these posts. I am ignorant as to how
any car company can lose $5000 or $6400 on every car sold and still remain
in business unless they are offsetting it in a different market. I know
sales of VW's have declined for 4 years in a row, but I have a different
theory than those who say they are junk and have a lousy dealership
network. My dealership, Car City Volkswagen, in Eau Claire, Wisconsin is
excellent. I believe the reason for declining sales is twofold: A) until
the New Jetta was released earlier this year, VWoA had an aging line-up.
They should bring models over here as timely as Europe gets them. The Golf
V, for example, has been available over there for two years now. While the
coilpack and window regulator issues were annoying, these are very minor
compared to an engine or transmission failure, and the reputation of VW
has been unfairly tarnished because of this. They are extremely reliable
cars and will go 300,000+ miles if properly taken care of. A guy in my
club has nearly half a million miles on a 1981 Rabbit. Sure, they have a
few quirks, but what car doesn't? Consumer Reports always talks about how
great Hondas are mechanically, but I welcome anyone on the staff to come to
Wisconsin and see how they rust within about 3 years. $3000 worth of
bodywork every couple of years, which is what it would require for a Honda
to keep looking good in the hellish climate where I live, negates any
advantage to mechanical excellence, in my opinion.
B) The New Beetle was released in 1998 amid much fanfare. Older guys like
me who grew up with the original Beetle were nostalgic, and the New Beetle
was a pivotal car to get people back into showrooms. While we were there,
we realized that we needed 4 doors, so we bought Jettas and Passats. Sales
shot through the roof, and VWoA was enjoying the best sales numbers in
thirty years. Then, the novelty of the New Beetle wore off, and for the
past 4 years or so, sales are now falling out of the inflated stratosphere
that VW enjoyed from 1999-2001. I think they will level off at around
200,000-225,000 annual sales in America, which is about where they were
before the New Beetle came out. The New Passat is here, the New Golf will
be here by spring, the New Beetle has been re-skinned a bit, and the Eos
will be here, and I guarantee that VWoA's sales for 2006 will start to
climb again, perhaps not to 2001 levels but they will be better than 2005,
nevertheless. There are plenty of people devoted to the brand, despite what
has been said. There is more competition now, and VW will never enjoy the
success they had 40 years ago, but they will still be around.

> My dealership, Car City Volkswagen, in Eau Claire, Wisconsin is
> excellent.

When I lived in Eau Claire, Jim Carter Ford/VW was the local dealer. My
service experiences there were not so good -- glad to hear the situation
has improved!

Your post says it all. You are right, in everything you say, but you also
completely support what I say.. Let me explain.. The losses are being offset
by the rest of their production....and are acceptable, on purpose.. And I
won't argue the merits of your dealership..But you won't make me believe
that nothing bad ever happened to a customer , that the customer didn't
think he deserved, either. However, I've never been there. But one good
dealership doesn't outweigh the damage done by many bad dealerships.. And
100 good dealerships, if they exist, can't outweigh the Corporate policies
of VWs strategic planning.. And to the customer , 100 good deeds is
completely negated by 1 or 2 bad deeds.. 1 or 2 bad deeds per hundred is
enough to tarnish anyones image.. in the car business.. These are the
industry standards..set by whoevers on top at the moment.. 1 or 2 % of
problems isn't acceptable. Let alone VWs poor percentages.. And I didn't
want to mention the 80's cars , The A1s or A2s , because everyone agrees ,
they are good cars. But you did, so now I have to also..They are better
cars then they make now... But that was 20-25 years ago, And they aren't
without their their quality issues either.. Remember self machining
transmissions, or the transmission fill hole installed 1/2 inch too low. And
what was the fix?? We wont give you a new transmission, that you have been
driving around with low fluid, due to our negligence, but you can take the
top cover off and add the necessary amount of fluid ..if you didn't burn up
your transmission yet.. And a small minority , like myself, of people like
them enough to have them. VWs aging lineup, isn't really aging. Its aging ,
but artificially aging.. by design. VW is forced to change lineups so much
compared to other manufacturers, because their cars are lousy. It takes only
up to about 2-6 years maximum, for enough customers to realize they
aren't any good, to stop buying them, forever. VW is then forced to offer a
new line up to restore sagging sales.. VW can't maintain sales on any
lineup for long, because their customers figured out, by owning them, that
they are bad cars.. The cars do not deliver. And the customer will not
remain loyal..They won't buy another . They will however , buy a new honda
, made in America, and drive it too, until their hair turns grey..or it
rusts..like you said, yourself.. Because a rusty car in your, and my
climate, is the norm , not the exception. IT is a necesary evil, that has
nothing to do with he quality of the car .But because of salt on the roads,
and is accepted by logical , rational, customers who drive them until they
rot in two, because they wont stop running.. A rusty 10 year old Honda that
runs like new, with 150,000 miles on it, is worth much more then a clean two
year old Diesel Jetta with 81,000 miles on it, and a broken timing belt
just out of warranty. After a certain amount of time , after excessive sales
losses, due to poor customer retention, VW comes up with a new lineup, and
starts their Very clever marketing campaigns, to get the new generation of
intelligent , educated yuppies to buy the NEW VWs for the first time... Of
course sales go up., .like you say, but only temporarily, until the fanfare
and novelty , as you put it yourself, wears off.. VW CORPORATE, abandones
their customers after the car is sold, and the dealers are forced to also,
because THEY ALREADY KNOW, the customers are going to become unhappy with
their cars, feel duped, and of course, become jaded to the clever marketing
that bombarded them before , and during their purchase..This is why the VW
lineups are so short in years, sometimes as short as two years, and must be
changed often.. These current , old, jaded customers who wont believe VWs
stupid kids jumping around in the house ads anymore, can only be maintained
now by unbiased comparitive ratings,with their competitors, and of
course.A CAR THAT DELIVERS, So those customers are lost forever..to Toyota
,or Honda, or even Hyundai.. VW now puts themselves in a position, where
they can't maintain sales with their existing customers , with their
existing lineup. BUT WE CAN RESTORE SALES,or climb back , as you put it,
by offering a new line up , to another generation of upcoming intelligent ,
educated yuppies who can afford our cars, but havn't bought one yet...and
haven't been duped yet , by our very clever marketing.. VW is always
willing to spend an inordinate amount of money for clever advertising, AND
THEY DO, to increase sales for a couple of years to new customers. That' s
all they got to work with. Clever Marketing.. And the reason VWs new US line
up is two years behind, Europes new lineup, is because we are the sideshow..
and we have to wait..AND VW wants it that way..As our cars are made on the
same lines as Europes..and are released there first. This is because our
cars have to be modified, American 5mph bumpers and door braces, and
emissions, which are different in California and the rest of the states. .
and VW spent ALL of their their marketing money on Europes new line up
release. wiith stupid clever ads there too... They have to recover the
advertising funds to market them to us. But this can only happen after
the new artificially limited lineup sells out in Europe.. And the
manufacturing facilities aren't running at 100% anymore. This takes a
couple of years. Nobody said clever ads dont work, they do. After the loss
of fanfare, and customers and the novelty wears off there, due to the exact
same issues here, VW allows the declining available,excess capacity of
their plants , to be filled by the US demand,for the same car, VW creates
the US demand for the same crap car, ,by clever marketing, with their now
replenished marketing funds,from the soold out cars in Eorope, and spends
ALL of their marketing funds here now.. The price holds due to, limited
artificiallly created availability again, a new batch of customers . and
the plants running at 100% production again.. This allows them to get their
asking ,price for a mediocre vehicle.. , sold to unsuspecting new
customers.. Hence the two year wait... The bottom line is, A guy in a club
with a Rabbit diesel, with 500,000 miles is there because he pampered it.
not maintained it like you say.. Thats why he's in a club.. He's in a
minority of owners , who are in a club, And using the available resources of
many people to take care of a 35 year old vehicle owned by one... My and the
customers idea, of proper maintenance , for a new vehicle, is oil changes,
for the life of the car, and rotables out of warranty.. You know, tires ,
brakes, tune ups. just like the other manufacturers.. AND THAT IS ALL.
Evereything must not break, That is the standard set by other
manufacturers, A VW making it through the warranty without costing the
customer something, isnt the norm for any VW. A VW customer is lucky to get
a warranty item fixed for free, after having to argue about it for weeks,
and after VW sends a tech rep to tell them , they are full of it , but
changes his mind, after he finally duplicates the customers complaint.. In
the meantime the customer, now without a car for weeks, and after missing
work, decides to buy a Toyota, Remember the customer??, The educated
intelligent yuppies with the $3000 mortgage needing money bad and must
work, makes up his mind that he's getting a Toyota asap. The VWs costing him
too much, money and time.. And all new issues on new VW lineups are are not
covered , until enough customers complain , to qualify as proof that an
issue exists, or VW gets sued , and decides to respond. They must pay for
VWs errors until VW decides they will pay , after they get sued , or word of
mouth gets out. Many , many , customers paid for coils and window winders,
and transmission repairs, and brakes, and lights , electronics, and anything
else, because the dealers told them it wasn't covered. Or wouldn't tell
customers about hidden service bullitins. And didn't get a refund. Those
customers are lost forever, to someone else.. The coil packs, windows,
Tourareg transmissions slamming drivers, and any of the other 20 plus major,
not minor issues, are not annoying. They are not minor issues,like you
say , to the customer , on the receiving end..of the issue. These are
MAJOR issues requiring the purchase of another car , elsewhere, when the
loan is up. Because average Joe yuppie expects his car to get him to work
every day without fail, until the loans is up ..... And until VW gets there,
They have to resort to clever stupid marketing ads to sell cars to
upcoming , intelligent , educated people who havn't owned on yet.. Thats
their customer base... Period.. And for you, apparently a VW employee,
to have to defend VWs current crappy line up , or their new upcoming crappy
line up, with a 35 year old pampered vehicle in a club, that everyone agrees
was a very good piece of engineering, says loads, about VW in
general..........
"Sills" > wrote in message
lkaboutautos.com...
> As a person who has been a VW guy since I was a little kid in the 1960's,
> I
> am very concerned with what I read in these posts. I am ignorant as to how
> any car company can lose $5000 or $6400 on every car sold and still remain
> in business unless they are offsetting it in a different market. I know
> sales of VW's have declined for 4 years in a row, but I have a different
> theory than those who say they are junk and have a lousy dealership
> network. My dealership, Car City Volkswagen, in Eau Claire, Wisconsin is
> excellent. I believe the reason for declining sales is twofold: A) until
> the New Jetta was released earlier this year, VWoA had an aging line-up.
> They should bring models over here as timely as Europe gets them. The Golf
> V, for example, has been available over there for two years now. While the
> coilpack and window regulator issues were annoying, these are very minor
> compared to an engine or transmission failure, and the reputation of VW
> has been unfairly tarnished because of this. They are extremely reliable
> cars and will go 300,000+ miles if properly taken care of. A guy in my
> club has nearly half a million miles on a 1981 Rabbit. Sure, they have a
> few quirks, but what car doesn't? Consumer Reports always talks about how
> great Hondas are mechanically, but I welcome anyone on the staff to come
> to
> Wisconsin and see how they rust within about 3 years. $3000 worth of
> bodywork every couple of years, which is what it would require for a Honda
> to keep looking good in the hellish climate where I live, negates any
> advantage to mechanical excellence, in my opinion.
> B) The New Beetle was released in 1998 amid much fanfare. Older guys like
> me who grew up with the original Beetle were nostalgic, and the New Beetle
> was a pivotal car to get people back into showrooms. While we were there,
> we realized that we needed 4 doors, so we bought Jettas and Passats. Sales
> shot through the roof, and VWoA was enjoying the best sales numbers in
> thirty years. Then, the novelty of the New Beetle wore off, and for the
> past 4 years or so, sales are now falling out of the inflated stratosphere
> that VW enjoyed from 1999-2001. I think they will level off at around
> 200,000-225,000 annual sales in America, which is about where they were
> before the New Beetle came out. The New Passat is here, the New Golf will
> be here by spring, the New Beetle has been re-skinned a bit, and the Eos
> will be here, and I guarantee that VWoA's sales for 2006 will start to
> climb again, perhaps not to 2001 levels but they will be better than 2005,
> nevertheless. There are plenty of people devoted to the brand, despite
> what
> has been said. There is more competition now, and VW will never enjoy the
> success they had 40 years ago, but they will still be around.
>

My apologies for mixing up , in the previous post, yuppie consumers, , with
generation x misfits, and the 10-15% of cutting edge Gen Y consumers who
have been exposed to tremendous amounts of advertising, and are jaded to
traditional marketing hype......Especially VWs..
"none2u" > wrote in message
news
>
> Your post says it all. You are right, in everything you say, but you
> also completely support what I say.. Let me explain.. The losses are being
> offset by the rest of their production....and are acceptable, on purpose..
> And I won't argue the merits of your dealership..But you won't make me
> believe that nothing bad ever happened to a customer , that the customer
> didn't think he deserved, either. However, I've never been there. But
> one good dealership doesn't outweigh the damage done by many bad
> dealerships.. And 100 good dealerships, if they exist, can't outweigh the
> Corporate policies of VWs strategic planning.. And to the customer , 100
> good deeds is completely negated by 1 or 2 bad deeds.. 1 or 2 bad
> deeds per hundred is enough to tarnish anyones image.. in the car
> business.. These are the industry standards..set by whoevers on top at the
> moment.. 1 or 2 % of problems isn't acceptable. Let alone VWs poor
> percentages.. And I didn't want to mention the 80's cars , The A1s or A2s
> , because everyone agrees , they are good cars. But you did, so now I have
> to also..They are better cars then they make now... But that was 20-25
> years ago, And they aren't without their their quality issues either..
> Remember self machining transmissions, or the transmission fill hole
> installed 1/2 inch too low. And what was the fix?? We wont give you a new
> transmission, that you have been driving around with low fluid, due to our
> negligence, but you can take the top cover off and add the necessary
> amount of fluid ..if you didn't burn up your transmission yet.. And a
> small minority , like myself, of people like them enough to have them. VWs
> aging lineup, isn't really aging. Its aging , but artificially aging.. by
> design. VW is forced to change lineups so much compared to other
> manufacturers, because their cars are lousy. It takes only up to about
> 2-6 years maximum, for enough customers to realize they aren't any
> good, to stop buying them, forever. VW is then forced to offer a new line
> up to restore sagging sales.. VW can't maintain sales on any lineup for
> long, because their customers figured out, by owning them, that they are
> bad cars.. The cars do not deliver. And the customer will not remain
> loyal..They won't buy another . They will however , buy a new honda ,
> made in America, and drive it too, until their hair turns grey..or it
> rusts..like you said, yourself.. Because a rusty car in your, and my
> climate, is the norm , not the exception. IT is a necesary evil, that has
> nothing to do with he quality of the car .But because of salt on the
> roads, and is accepted by logical , rational, customers who drive them
> until they rot in two, because they wont stop running.. A rusty 10 year
> old Honda that runs like new, with 150,000 miles on it, is worth much more
> then a clean two year old Diesel Jetta with 81,000 miles on it, and a
> broken timing belt just out of warranty. After a certain amount of time ,
> after excessive sales losses, due to poor customer retention, VW comes up
> with a new lineup, and starts their Very clever marketing campaigns, to
> get the new generation of intelligent , educated yuppies to buy the NEW
> VWs for the first time... Of course sales go up., .like you say, but only
> temporarily, until the fanfare and novelty , as you put it yourself, wears
> off.. VW CORPORATE, abandones their customers after the car is sold, and
> the dealers are forced to also, because THEY ALREADY KNOW, the customers
> are going to become unhappy with their cars, feel duped, and of course,
> become jaded to the clever marketing that bombarded them before , and
> during their purchase..This is why the VW lineups are so short in years,
> sometimes as short as two years, and must be changed often.. These
> current , old, jaded customers who wont believe VWs stupid kids jumping
> around in the house ads anymore, can only be maintained now by unbiased
> comparitive ratings,with their competitors, and of course.A CAR THAT
> DELIVERS, So those customers are lost forever..to Toyota ,or Honda, or
> even Hyundai.. VW now puts themselves in a position, where they can't
> maintain sales with their existing customers , with their existing lineup.
> BUT WE CAN RESTORE SALES,or climb back , as you put it, by offering a new
> line up , to another generation of upcoming intelligent , educated yuppies
> who can afford our cars, but havn't bought one yet...and haven't been
> duped yet , by our very clever marketing.. VW is always willing to spend
> an inordinate amount of money for clever advertising, AND THEY DO, to
> increase sales for a couple of years to new customers. That' s all they
> got to work with. Clever Marketing.. And the reason VWs new US line up is
> two years behind, Europes new lineup, is because we are the sideshow.. and
> we have to wait..AND VW wants it that way..As our cars are made on the
> same lines as Europes..and are released there first. This is because our
> cars have to be modified, American 5mph bumpers and door braces, and
> emissions, which are different in California and the rest of the states.
> . and VW spent ALL of their their marketing money on Europes new line up
> release. wiith stupid clever ads there too... They have to recover the
> advertising funds to market them to us. But this can only happen after
> the new artificially limited lineup sells out in Europe.. And the
> manufacturing facilities aren't running at 100% anymore. This takes a
> couple of years. Nobody said clever ads dont work, they do. After the
> loss of fanfare, and customers and the novelty wears off there, due to the
> exact same issues here, VW allows the declining available,excess capacity
> of their plants , to be filled by the US demand,for the same car, VW
> creates the US demand for the same crap car, ,by clever marketing, with
> their now replenished marketing funds,from the soold out cars in Eorope,
> and spends ALL of their marketing funds here now.. The price holds due
> to, limited artificiallly created availability again, a new batch of
> customers . and the plants running at 100% production again.. This
> allows them to get their asking ,price for a mediocre vehicle.. , sold to
> unsuspecting new customers.. Hence the two year wait... The bottom line
> is, A guy in a club with a Rabbit diesel, with 500,000 miles is there
> because he pampered it. not maintained it like you say.. Thats why he's in
> a club.. He's in a minority of owners , who are in a club, And using the
> available resources of many people to take care of a 35 year old vehicle
> owned by one... My and the customers idea, of proper maintenance , for a
> new vehicle, is oil changes, for the life of the car, and rotables out of
> warranty.. You know, tires , brakes, tune ups. just like the other
> manufacturers.. AND THAT IS ALL. Evereything must not break, That is the
> standard set by other manufacturers, A VW making it through the warranty
> without costing the customer something, isnt the norm for any VW. A VW
> customer is lucky to get a warranty item fixed for free, after having to
> argue about it for weeks, and after VW sends a tech rep to tell them ,
> they are full of it , but changes his mind, after he finally duplicates
> the customers complaint.. In the meantime the customer, now without a car
> for weeks, and after missing work, decides to buy a Toyota, Remember the
> customer??, The educated intelligent yuppies with the $3000 mortgage
> needing money bad and must work, makes up his mind that he's getting a
> Toyota asap. The VWs costing him too much, money and time.. And all new
> issues on new VW lineups are are not covered , until enough customers
> complain , to qualify as proof that an issue exists, or VW gets sued ,
> and decides to respond. They must pay for VWs errors until VW decides
> they will pay , after they get sued , or word of mouth gets out. Many ,
> many , customers paid for coils and window winders, and transmission
> repairs, and brakes, and lights , electronics, and anything else, because
> the dealers told them it wasn't covered. Or wouldn't tell customers about
> hidden service bullitins. And didn't get a refund. Those customers are
> lost forever, to someone else.. The coil packs, windows, Tourareg
> transmissions slamming drivers, and any of the other 20 plus major, not
> minor issues, are not annoying. They are not minor issues,like you say
> , to the customer , on the receiving end..of the issue. These are MAJOR
> issues requiring the purchase of another car , elsewhere, when the loan is
> up. Because average Joe yuppie expects his car to get him to work every
> day without fail, until the loans is up ..... And until VW gets there,
> They have to resort to clever stupid marketing ads to sell cars to
> upcoming , intelligent , educated people who havn't owned on yet.. Thats
> their customer base... Period.. And for you, apparently a VW employee,
> to have to defend VWs current crappy line up , or their new upcoming
> crappy line up, with a 35 year old pampered vehicle in a club, that
> everyone agrees was a very good piece of engineering, says loads, about VW
> in general..........
> "Sills" > wrote in message
> lkaboutautos.com...
>> As a person who has been a VW guy since I was a little kid in the 1960's,
>> I
>> am very concerned with what I read in these posts. I am ignorant as to
>> how
>> any car company can lose $5000 or $6400 on every car sold and still
>> remain
>> in business unless they are offsetting it in a different market. I know
>> sales of VW's have declined for 4 years in a row, but I have a different
>> theory than those who say they are junk and have a lousy dealership
>> network. My dealership, Car City Volkswagen, in Eau Claire, Wisconsin is
>> excellent. I believe the reason for declining sales is twofold: A) until
>> the New Jetta was released earlier this year, VWoA had an aging line-up.
>> They should bring models over here as timely as Europe gets them. The
>> Golf
>> V, for example, has been available over there for two years now. While
>> the
>> coilpack and window regulator issues were annoying, these are very minor
>> compared to an engine or transmission failure, and the reputation of VW
>> has been unfairly tarnished because of this. They are extremely reliable
>> cars and will go 300,000+ miles if properly taken care of. A guy in my
>> club has nearly half a million miles on a 1981 Rabbit. Sure, they have a
>> few quirks, but what car doesn't? Consumer Reports always talks about
>> how
>> great Hondas are mechanically, but I welcome anyone on the staff to come
>> to
>> Wisconsin and see how they rust within about 3 years. $3000 worth of
>> bodywork every couple of years, which is what it would require for a
>> Honda
>> to keep looking good in the hellish climate where I live, negates any
>> advantage to mechanical excellence, in my opinion.
>> B) The New Beetle was released in 1998 amid much fanfare. Older guys like
>> me who grew up with the original Beetle were nostalgic, and the New
>> Beetle
>> was a pivotal car to get people back into showrooms. While we were there,
>> we realized that we needed 4 doors, so we bought Jettas and Passats.
>> Sales
>> shot through the roof, and VWoA was enjoying the best sales numbers in
>> thirty years. Then, the novelty of the New Beetle wore off, and for the
>> past 4 years or so, sales are now falling out of the inflated
>> stratosphere
>> that VW enjoyed from 1999-2001. I think they will level off at around
>> 200,000-225,000 annual sales in America, which is about where they were
>> before the New Beetle came out. The New Passat is here, the New Golf will
>> be here by spring, the New Beetle has been re-skinned a bit, and the Eos
>> will be here, and I guarantee that VWoA's sales for 2006 will start to
>> climb again, perhaps not to 2001 levels but they will be better than
>> 2005,
>> nevertheless. There are plenty of people devoted to the brand, despite
>> what
>> has been said. There is more competition now, and VW will never enjoy the
>> success they had 40 years ago, but they will still be around.
>>
>
>

none2u wrote:

> rusts..like you said, yourself.. Because a rusty car in your, and my
> climate, is the norm , not the exception. IT is a necesary evil, that has
> nothing to do with he quality of the car .But because of salt on the roads,

I disagree. The quality cars do not rost in 10 years, even in worst
conditions.
Over here, Honda starts to show the first signs of rost in as little as
~6 years, in 12 years it is probably unsafe to drive anymore. My old
Audi has 18 years and not a single point of rust. And it is not an
exeption.

> and is accepted by logical , rational, customers who drive them until they
> rot in two, because they wont stop running.. A rusty 10 year old Honda that

It is just a question of what they are willing to tolerate.

In fact, I would be willing to pay some $5k for some repairs coul be
necessary, instead of being forced to throw _a lot_ of money for the
whole new car jus because the old one is rusted away.

> runs like new, with 150,000 miles on it, is worth much more then a clean two
> year old Diesel Jetta with 81,000 miles on it, and a broken timing belt

Don't know, the european hondas aren't known to be such a performers.
After 10 years and 150k miles you usually must prepare for _major_
expensive repairs. The engine will probably be fine, but everyhing
else...

> that bombarded them before , and during their purchase..This is why the VW
> lineups are so short in years, sometimes as short as two years, and must be

Erm, could you elaborate on that one? Which VW model lasted only two
years?

Golf? 1997-2004, 7 years.
Passat? 1997-2005, 8 years.

I have got a different impressions: the japan cars are changing much
more often.

You really are trying to skirt around the issues are'nt you?.. Your post has
no merit, ..A whole huge post about how VWs are junk and how they have to
fool uninformed people to buy them with clever advertising... and you say,
that I wouldn't do body work, on a 10 year old rusty honda , if it cost
5000 bucks to fix, and it had 150,000 miles on it.. Nobody would .. They'd
drive it for 50,000 more and sell it for 2000 bucks and buy a new one...or
give it to their colege kids to destroy at school.... ALL cars rust, sitting
on the lot.. Anyone can find rust somewhere, on any car, anywhere.. All
manufacturers have rusty parts , in their plants, getting ready to be
installed on new cars...And you Really don't know if a 2 year old Diesel
Jetta with 81,000 miles with a broken timing belt , and out of warranty ,
is worth less then a 10 year old runs like new rusty Honda.........Let me
explain it to you.... Apparently you don't know that the engine is destroyed
and now must be paid for by the customer.....Warranty 80,000 miles, Timing
belt change interval 105,000 miles, Belt breaks at 81,000 miles.. Cost
to VW , ZERO, because we dont have to pay the dealer under warranty, even
though we said it was good until 105,000 miles. .. Cost to dealer, another
lost customer, but.... dealer makes a lot of dough changing an engine for
4000 bucks.. Its corruptable, and was done ON PURPOSE. To keep from paying
to repair customers cars , when they KNOW THEY WERE GOING TO LOSE THAT
CUSTOMER to a different brand anyways. LONG BEFORE THE BELT FAILED... VW
DECIDED to raise the timing belt interval to get them out of warranty,
,knowing full well ,they would get an increase of failed belts, but did it
anyway to save a lot of cash, and be able to charge extra for , extended
warranties, but not have to pay for timing belt changes , or destroyed
engines.. IT IS ABSOLUTELY CORRUPTABLE... 2% of VW Diesel buyers will
experience a broken timing belt on their car before the change interval, and
those customers will not buy another one... VW could of easily stopped this
at the beginning , instead of dragging their ass, and hiding it, by lowering
the change interval, and change them under warranty, but did'nt want to
pay.. I talk in small percentages, and you may think its unimportant ,
just like VW, but all those unhapy customers with their little percentages,
all add up to the primary reason VW has to sell to new customers all the
time , based on cool , clever commercials , fanfare, novelty, and nostalgia,
and deception... instead of , Cars that deliver, and unbiased ,
unopinionated , actual customer reports , great service, price, honesty, and
unbiased comparitive reviews..... You claim Honda's don't perform in Europe
, when I'm talking about broken timing belts??? and destroyed engines out of
warranty at 81,000 miles... What the hell is that??? You must be in VW
marketing...Nobody is tolerating a honda that has'nt broken down in 10 years
and is rusty..They are giving to their kids to go to college...What VWs
lasted only two years,.....I stated 2-6 years, and model changes, not 2 ...
but you wanted to soung like I said 2, Well OK, Let me see, I'm going to
stretch a little , just like you did.... I got to think a little.. ...95-97
Passat, 90-92 Golf Eco diesel..., 88-90 Fox 2 dr. Wagon, The 90-92 Derby
MK2 F, The Vanagon 83-85 1.9 L., The 79-81 MK1 Polo and Derby, And Finally
for 1 year , The 1983 Polo Diesel .............. See Ya ..
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> none2u wrote:
>
>> rusts..like you said, yourself.. Because a rusty car in your, and my
>> climate, is the norm , not the exception. IT is a necesary evil, that has
>> nothing to do with he quality of the car .But because of salt on the
>> roads,
>
> I disagree. The quality cars do not rost in 10 years, even in worst
> conditions.
> Over here, Honda starts to show the first signs of rost in as little as
> ~6 years, in 12 years it is probably unsafe to drive anymore. My old
> Audi has 18 years and not a single point of rust. And it is not an
> exeption.
>
>> and is accepted by logical , rational, customers who drive them until
>> they
>> rot in two, because they wont stop running.. A rusty 10 year old Honda
>> that
>
> It is just a question of what they are willing to tolerate.
>
> In fact, I would be willing to pay some $5k for some repairs coul be
> necessary, instead of being forced to throw _a lot_ of money for the
> whole new car jus because the old one is rusted away.
>
>> runs like new, with 150,000 miles on it, is worth much more then a clean
>> two
>> year old Diesel Jetta with 81,000 miles on it, and a broken timing belt
>
> Don't know, the european hondas aren't known to be such a performers.
> After 10 years and 150k miles you usually must prepare for _major_
> expensive repairs. The engine will probably be fine, but everyhing
> else...
>
>> that bombarded them before , and during their purchase..This is why the
>> VW
>> lineups are so short in years, sometimes as short as two years, and must
>> be
>
> Erm, could you elaborate on that one? Which VW model lasted only two
> years?
>
> Golf? 1997-2004, 7 years.
> Passat? 1997-2005, 8 years.
>
> I have got a different impressions: the japan cars are changing much
> more often.
>

I am not employed by Volkswagen in any shape or form, and to claim that the
brand has no repeat buyers and that it deliberately uses corrupt business
practices to lure new ones is ludicrous. Yes, any car will rust in time,
but certain brands will do so much sooner than others. VW/Audi has the
best rust warranty in the business....12 years, unlimited mileage (I
think). Yes, in certain models, a broken timing belt will wreck your
engine. In my 2.0 gas Golf, this is not the case. It would merely stop
until it was towed somewhere and replaced. Regardless,98% of diesel
owners, according to you, will never have this problem. The only VW's that
have 105,000 mile intervals are the V6 models, anyway (Passats, older
Jettas & GTI's). The rest have 60,000 mile intervals. As for the other
issue of model changes and updates, Honda as an example changes bodystyles
much MORE often than VW. The average carbuyer has regressed to the old
1950's concept of planned obsolescence, and THIS is a big reason
why VW sales have dropped, NOT because they are "junk." It took 6 years
for the Jetta to change (1999-2005) while the Accord probably underwent 3
different changes during the same period, so this shoots your luring new,
gullible, unsuspecting yuppies theory every 2 years in the foot.
Volkswagen owners keep their cars longer than domestic owners because they
LAST twice as long............I'd rather pay $20,000 for a Jetta that will
last 15 years than $14,000 for a comparably equipped domestic that will be
lucky to see 125,000 miles before everything's shot.

You said you were a VW guy, not me , and you also said YOUR DEALERSHIP..
Then you said,, MY dealership, Car city volkswagen,is excellent....Then you
went on about the reasons there are declining sales, Then you went on about
sales, and VWs new line up, and dealers expectations.,for the future. Then
you rattled off some sales figures...If you dont work at the dealership, or
your not an VW employee, why didnt you just say I owned some , and visit
somebody elses dealership... but I dont really know much except what VW
tells me in the news... You did'nt even know why US releases are about two
years behind Europes. You said they should bring models here as timely as
Europe gets them.... They can't . Because they have to build a plant here,
and can't protect themselves , by limiting production... Other manufacturers
run their plants at 70,80, 90 % and have to deliver, quality, value, and
great dealer service. or close. VW runs their plant at 100% as much as
possible, Refuses to add production, and artificcially protects themselves
from the free market in the US..This allows them to offer high purchase
cost, substandard dealer service, mediocre products, that cost more to own
and operate over the life of the car... period.. You insinuate your
position, your opinion, and twist my words by leaving out the facts, and
omit whatever does'nt help you point of view.. I bring everything to the
table, I did not say 98% of diesel owners will never have a problem with
their car.. , you did... can you back that statement up...... Dream on... I
said 2% of diesel owners will have timing belt failures before VW
recommended change interval. 2% is too much..1/10 of 1% is too much..
Thats 1 car per 1000 sales, not 2 cars per 100 sales.. But now I'm
dreaming... And all VWs since 1995 do not have 60,000 mile change
intervals.. They have settled down now, about 10 years too late.. to retain
a decades worth of lost customers, who paid for broken belts and engines out
of warranty.. , But VW jockeyed around so much with the intervals since 95
sometimes changing every year.. They were trying to find a balance point ,
where they dont have pay to change belts,or engines, but not **** off to
many customers either.. They did this to match their competitors warranty
times, not because they wanted to.. because they had to, or lose to many
sales.. But they didn' t want to pay for the repairs but pass them off to
the customer.. Many of the remaining 98% of the owners will , and did have
problems with other issues too. VW and you too, can dream all day about a
98% no problem rate with their cars.. Which isn't even acceptable to the
other car manufacturers.. VWs are not actually as reliable as other
cars,everyone knows that, but they tried to make it look like it on paper
only.. So they could try , for a while to make some effort to pass unbiased
, comparitive reports . This was in the 90's, But they had to back down when
the news got a hold of the many unhappy customers who claimed that VWs
estimates of ownership cost were way out of line.. HELL, VW does'nt even
try now.. Now they offer Gen X Idiots commercials, or the old Farfegnugen.
....Let me tell you about VWs rust protection plan. It is pretty good, but
they never pay for rust repairs, Want to know why... Because most owners
sale their cars within 6 years, and get a new one.. Even VW owners buy
another to get out from under the cost of ownership.. And the warranty
applies to the original owner.. not the second owner.. You know how many
times a VWdealer told a VW owner , its time to get a new one, because their
current one is going to cost too much to maintain... I challenge you to
step onto a VW dealers lot and find a 7 year old VW with the miles low
enough to qualify for rust repairs. I guarantee that car will be sold as is,
or with a limited dealer warranty, that will be drivetrain only, without the
rust protection warranty.. I did'nt say VW lures gullible new car buyers
every 2 years. You did, again.. .. its 2-6, and its variable, based on when
they decide to replace their existing line up, or particular model, with
another replacement. Then all their marketing and advertising applies...
Specificly for you, since your trying very hard to skirt around the
obvious.. Every new release of a new car lineup, however long it took.. is
accompanied by the advertising and marketing I am refering too. Stupid Gen
Xer's dimwits jumping around in an apartment , bothering their neighbors,
until they have to move.. The commercial and all VWs commercials for the
last 20 years, explain themselves.. I challenge you , again, to explain
how that commercial, in any way, shape ,or form has anything to do with the
type of car you are saying a VW is.. That commercial says, If your a
dimwit, with a dimwit girlfriend, and you live in an expensive apartment,
and don't even care about losing it by being an uncaring dimwit, who
does'nt care about anyone else, and you dont care how much anything cost,
and you want to jump around and destroy your possessions.. Come buy our car,
because you're the dimwit for us.....It also says , We offer nothing of
real value to you, because its not even important enough to make a
commercial about our cars. Lets make commercials about our customer base.
Unsuspecting, educated, intelligent Gen X dimwits.. Lets focus on everything
but out cars.....Because our cars suck... They spend millions to do it.. ,
No they spend every penny they have, to sale cars to prospective,
uninformed, educated, dimwits/ victims... Victims that won't be a victim
twice, Because VW changes them from dimwits, into jaded VW car Owners..
Because their cars are sold on clever marketing, and nothing more..
Corruptable was a term I used for my feelings, and a customers feelings ,
who had to buy a Diesel engine 1000 miles out of warranty, because of a
broken timing belt , that didnt make it to the VW recommended change
interval.. My idea idea of corruptable, and businesses idea of corruptable
are not the same.. And that applies to almost every business in America.
Business is business, or to quote a very famous business man.. There are
very few business rules or regulations in existance that business actually
has to abide by..... You figure out who said it....

"Sills" > wrote in message
lkaboutautos.com...
>I am not employed by Volkswagen in any shape or form, and to claim that the
> brand has no repeat buyers and that it deliberately uses corrupt business
> practices to lure new ones is ludicrous. Yes, any car will rust in time,
> but certain brands will do so much sooner than others. VW/Audi has the
> best rust warranty in the business....12 years, unlimited mileage (I
> think). Yes, in certain models, a broken timing belt will wreck your
> engine. In my 2.0 gas Golf, this is not the case. It would merely stop
> until it was towed somewhere and replaced. Regardless,98% of diesel
> owners, according to you, will never have this problem. The only VW's that
> have 105,000 mile intervals are the V6 models, anyway (Passats, older
> Jettas & GTI's). The rest have 60,000 mile intervals. As for the other
> issue of model changes and updates, Honda as an example changes bodystyles
> much MORE often than VW. The average carbuyer has regressed to the old
> 1950's concept of planned obsolescence, and THIS is a big reason
> why VW sales have dropped, NOT because they are "junk." It took 6 years
> for the Jetta to change (1999-2005) while the Accord probably underwent 3
> different changes during the same period, so this shoots your luring new,
> gullible, unsuspecting yuppies theory every 2 years in the foot.
> Volkswagen owners keep their cars longer than domestic owners because they
> LAST twice as long............I'd rather pay $20,000 for a Jetta that will
> last 15 years than $14,000 for a comparably equipped domestic that will be
> lucky to see 125,000 miles before everything's shot.
>

"none2u" > writes:

>You said you were a VW guy, not me , and you also said YOUR DEALERSHIP..
>Then you said,, MY dealership, Car city volkswagen,is excellent....Then you
>went on about the reasons there are declining sales, Then you went on about
>sales, and VWs new line up, and dealers expectations.,for the future. Then
>you rattled off some sales figures...If you dont work at the dealership, or

[snip]

Why do you waste your time and our bandwidth on writing like that?

If you expect people to read and understand what you're writing,
then don't make it look more onerous to read than the fine print on
a hire-purchase agreement.

Nobody will read it unless you make the effort to make it easy to
read. You will only ever generate argument and confusion until you
begin to structure your writing in a conventional manner to present
a coherent point of view.

--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Economist \E*con"o*mist\, n.
X against HTML mail | One with a ready explanation as to why
/ \ and postings | his last prediction was so wrong

Yea, you're right. I should of did some editing. So I'm through hijacking
this post. Good day mate..!!
"Bernd Felsche" > wrote in message
...
> "none2u" > writes:
>
>>You said you were a VW guy, not me , and you also said YOUR DEALERSHIP..
>>Then you said,, MY dealership, Car city volkswagen,is excellent....Then
>>you
>>went on about the reasons there are declining sales, Then you went on
>>about
>>sales, and VWs new line up, and dealers expectations.,for the future. Then
>>you rattled off some sales figures...If you dont work at the dealership,
>>or
>
> [snip]
>
> Why do you waste your time and our bandwidth on writing like that?
>
> If you expect people to read and understand what you're writing,
> then don't make it look more onerous to read than the fine print on
> a hire-purchase agreement.
>
> Nobody will read it unless you make the effort to make it easy to
> read. You will only ever generate argument and confusion until you
> begin to structure your writing in a conventional manner to present
> a coherent point of view.
>
> --
> /"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
> \ / ASCII ribbon campaign | Economist \E*con"o*mist\, n.
> X against HTML mail | One with a ready explanation as to why
> / \ and postings | his last prediction was so wrong