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#21
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On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve
> enlightened us thusly: >> >I would like to know how much land it would take to grow biodiesel for, >say, my car which does 10-12,000 miles/year at 40-50 mpg. Then scale it >up. Have we enough land ? > According to some approximate figures I worked out a bit back, the fuel used in cars in the UK must come into the region of millions of gallons per day. However, I've no idea how much oilseed rape you have to grow to produce that much fuel, or indeed any given amount of fuel. -- Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that "Something there is that doesn't love a wall." Robert Frost (1874-1963) |
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#22
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On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve > wrote:
->Austin Shackles wrote: ->> On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 00:48:23 -0300, Chris Phillipo ->> > enlightened us thusly: ->> ->> ->>>They already have and do, no one wants them. Europeans wouldn't want ->>>them either if gas was $2 a gallon there too. -> ->Yes but diesel is much cheaper to make, so Diesel might be $1.50 ->/gallon, and still more efficient than "gas". Where is your argument then ? You are forgetting tax, because of the tax diesel in more expensive then petrol. -- Geoff www.anoraks.uk.net |
#23
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On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve > wrote:
->Austin Shackles wrote: ->> On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 00:48:23 -0300, Chris Phillipo ->> > enlightened us thusly: ->> ->> ->>>They already have and do, no one wants them. Europeans wouldn't want ->>>them either if gas was $2 a gallon there too. -> ->Yes but diesel is much cheaper to make, so Diesel might be $1.50 ->/gallon, and still more efficient than "gas". Where is your argument then ? You are forgetting tax, because of the tax diesel in more expensive then petrol. -- Geoff www.anoraks.uk.net |
#24
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Austin Shackles wrote: > > On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve > > enlightened us thusly: > > >> > >I would like to know how much land it would take to grow biodiesel for, > >say, my car which does 10-12,000 miles/year at 40-50 mpg. Then scale it > >up. Have we enough land ? > > > Well according to the table that the Alternative fuel association and the department of Ag put out, you can get 127 gallons of oil per acre of Rape seed. (I suspect that this is under optimum conditions. For planning purposes I would suspect that you can count on 50 gallons an acre). Lets use the lower number for planning purposes so 12,000 miles divided by 40 miles per gallon. It comes out to 300 gallons per year. In the making of biodiesel you can only esterize the triglycerides so you only get about 50-55% recovery of biodiesel from rape seed oil. So you can expect that to have 300 gallons of biodiesel you would have to raise 600 gallons of rape seed oil. This would mean that you would have to have 12 acres of rapeseed. Then you would have to have at least 60 gallons of ethanol made from sugar beets (412 gal per acre), Potatoes (299 gal per acre) and Corn (214 gal per acre). So I would say that an additional acre of land for the raising of potatoes would give you the alcohol for the conversion process. Then you would need about a 5 lbs of lye which you can buy at the super market (RED Devil cleaning lye). So I guess 13 acres would be all you need. The Independent Now I don't know what the conversion factor of ethanol to corn is but I would probably put it at not more than factor for > According to some approximate figures I worked out a bit back, the fuel used > in cars in the UK must come into the region of millions of gallons per day. > > However, I've no idea how much oilseed rape you have to grow to produce that > much fuel, or indeed any given amount of fuel. > -- > Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that > "Something there is that doesn't love a wall." > Robert Frost (1874-1963) |
#25
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Austin Shackles wrote: > > On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve > > enlightened us thusly: > > >> > >I would like to know how much land it would take to grow biodiesel for, > >say, my car which does 10-12,000 miles/year at 40-50 mpg. Then scale it > >up. Have we enough land ? > > > Well according to the table that the Alternative fuel association and the department of Ag put out, you can get 127 gallons of oil per acre of Rape seed. (I suspect that this is under optimum conditions. For planning purposes I would suspect that you can count on 50 gallons an acre). Lets use the lower number for planning purposes so 12,000 miles divided by 40 miles per gallon. It comes out to 300 gallons per year. In the making of biodiesel you can only esterize the triglycerides so you only get about 50-55% recovery of biodiesel from rape seed oil. So you can expect that to have 300 gallons of biodiesel you would have to raise 600 gallons of rape seed oil. This would mean that you would have to have 12 acres of rapeseed. Then you would have to have at least 60 gallons of ethanol made from sugar beets (412 gal per acre), Potatoes (299 gal per acre) and Corn (214 gal per acre). So I would say that an additional acre of land for the raising of potatoes would give you the alcohol for the conversion process. Then you would need about a 5 lbs of lye which you can buy at the super market (RED Devil cleaning lye). So I guess 13 acres would be all you need. The Independent Now I don't know what the conversion factor of ethanol to corn is but I would probably put it at not more than factor for > According to some approximate figures I worked out a bit back, the fuel used > in cars in the UK must come into the region of millions of gallons per day. > > However, I've no idea how much oilseed rape you have to grow to produce that > much fuel, or indeed any given amount of fuel. > -- > Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that > "Something there is that doesn't love a wall." > Robert Frost (1874-1963) |
#26
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On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 14:42:19 +0100, Geoff
> enlightened us thusly: >On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve > wrote: > >->Austin Shackles wrote: >->> On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 00:48:23 -0300, Chris Phillipo >->> > enlightened us thusly: >->> >->> >->>>They already have and do, no one wants them. Europeans wouldn't want >->>>them either if gas was $2 a gallon there too. >-> >->Yes but diesel is much cheaper to make, so Diesel might be $1.50 >->/gallon, and still more efficient than "gas". Where is your argument then ? > >You are forgetting tax, because of the tax diesel in more expensive then petrol. in the UK, currently, both have duty levied at around the same rate, about 45p/l, plus VAT (!) Low-sulphur fuels are slightly better, and bio-diesel significantly better, but I know of no garages actually sellgin bio-diesel. There is some bio-blend about, which is a mixture of bio and fossil. -- Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8 |
#27
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On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 14:42:19 +0100, Geoff
> enlightened us thusly: >On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve > wrote: > >->Austin Shackles wrote: >->> On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 00:48:23 -0300, Chris Phillipo >->> > enlightened us thusly: >->> >->> >->>>They already have and do, no one wants them. Europeans wouldn't want >->>>them either if gas was $2 a gallon there too. >-> >->Yes but diesel is much cheaper to make, so Diesel might be $1.50 >->/gallon, and still more efficient than "gas". Where is your argument then ? > >You are forgetting tax, because of the tax diesel in more expensive then petrol. in the UK, currently, both have duty levied at around the same rate, about 45p/l, plus VAT (!) Low-sulphur fuels are slightly better, and bio-diesel significantly better, but I know of no garages actually sellgin bio-diesel. There is some bio-blend about, which is a mixture of bio and fossil. -- Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8 |
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#29
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