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"Elle" > wrote in
:

> "Tegger" > wrote
>> I've often wondered why curb weight isn't
>> reported by Honda in its shop manuals.
>
> I see curb weight in at least one of the UK site's FS
> manuals:
> http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m...Manual/62sk301
> /3-14.pdf
>
>
>


Interesting. I wonder if curb weight listings may be a European legal
requirement. Of particular and odd note here is the UK service manual's use
of the American spelling "curb" rather than the standard British spelling
of "kerb".

I notice our Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) appears to be called
"Max. Permissible Weight" over there.

Given the differences in powerplants, equipment and structure between
overseas and North America (and even between Canada and the US), I'd be
inclined to use curb weights as relative, comparative measures, not
absolute ones. You're doing that already, I know.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Pszemol" > wrote
> Then how do you know you "prefer" car without ABS?

I prefer owning a car w/o ABS because I have (1) read the
reports of the additional effort required to work on brakes
w/ABS; (2) seen ABS parts fail on others' cars; (3) read
about how little advantage ABS is, especially for where I
live (little rain and snow). More complicated is undesirable
to me.

Your opinion of the better braking of ABS is noted. People
can google and see reports of how they are really not
notably superior especially for xyz situations and confirm
my opinion is shared by many.

Pszemol wrote:
> "jim beam" > wrote in message
> t...
>>>>> Talking about active safety - how about ABS?
>>>>> Which model years/trims had it already installed, which not?
>>>>
>>>> do you know much about abs? did you know that it doesn't
>>>> necessarily stop you any quicker, and can in fact /increase/ braking
>>>> distances? if you have an abs system on your car, open the owners
>>>> manual and read
>>>> what it says about that.
>>>
>>> Don't be such arrogant!
>>
>> what's a "such arrogant"?
>>
>>
>>> I know exactly how ABS works and what are its effects on
>>> driving/breaking.
>>
>> you know how it works??? i'd love to read your explanation!
>
> You are out of luck because you are not nice enough and you seem
> to me to prefer staying with your ignorant point of view...

oh, don't be a spoil-sport! tell us anyway!


>
>> btw, if you learned how to spell "b-r-a-k-i-n-g", you might be more
>> convincing.
>
> Is English your native language and you think everybody is the same as
> you? Or that if somebody who makes some language mistakes
> it is some indication of his lack of technical knowledge?
> Don't be such an arrogant American who thinks that if somebody
> does not speak or write perfect English his must be dumb in
> everything else...

honestly, i'm not as interested in your spelling as i am your ability to
have an opinion on something you don't seem to know anything about.


>
>>> In my opinion the car with ABS in general is safer than the one
>>> without one.
>>
>> what is your opinion based on exactly? it's not facts about braking
>> distances because abs is not necessarily better in that regard. you
>> /do/ know about abs systems, right?
>
> Braking distance is not all what is important in car safety.

eh? that's an incredibly bizarre statement! personally, i'd rather
avoid the accident than have one, and braking distance is a fundamental
component of that.


> Do some reading and maybe you will learn what you are missing.

i read extensively. you simply don't know what you don't know.


>
>>> Buying older cars you loose this feature and some others, too.
>>> It is buyer choice, of course, but I considered it worth mentioning
>>> together with your coment about missing sway bars in newer model.
>>>
>>>> abs is /fantastic/ for people like my grandmother who will do
>>>> something like skid on the freeway, all 4 wheels locked, and sit
>>>> there pressing the pedal as hard as she can while she has absolutely
>>>> no control of the vehicle whatsoever. when i'm old enough to drive
>>>> like her, maybe i'll consider abs. in the mean time, as long as i
>>>> know about cadence braking and friction coefficients, i'm quite
>>>> happy with standard brakes thanks.
>>>
>>> Don't forget you are not talking about the car for yourself but for
>>> Elle.
>>> She might be somebody's grandmother :-) Or - just a driver little
>>> more educated in benefits of modern car safety systems than you...
>>>
>>>>> Talking more about safety systems... how about air bags? Would you
>>>>> prefer driving with 20 years old airbag or 8 years old one?
>>>>
>>>> i prefer to have /no/ airbag! if true driver safety were the
>>>> concern of gub'mint, roll cages, helmets and 5-point harnesses would
>>>> be mandatory, not airbags. just like in race cars.
>>>
>>> This just tells me how uneducated/ignorant driver you are.
>>
>> buddy, helmets beat air bags every single time.
>
> I am not your buddy.

i'd be your buddy if a helmet saved your life!


>
>>> Also, again I have to remind you that the choice is not yours but hers.
>>> It is her car we are talking about. It is her decision if she wants car
>>> with air bags or a death trap without one :-)
>>
>> keep drinking the kool-aid.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>> Also, in case of unfortunate accident - how would you think 20 years
>>>>> old body would perform compared to the 8 years old with no rust?
>>>>
>>>> mine's california and it has no rust. and 8 years in the rust belt
>>>> is no guarantee of integrity if you want to be really pedantic.
>>>
>>> I am not talking about cosmetic rust but undercariage rust, ball
>>> joints, etc.
>>
>> i'm not talking cosmetic either - that's why i take the trouble to
>> specify "s-t-r-u-c-t-u-r-a-l" in the part you so carefully snipped but
>> didn't annotate.
>
> There will be no structural rust on 8 years old car

eh? have you ever been up north?


> but it is a good
> chance that 20 years old civic will not be strong enough to crash safely.

rubbish. my 19 year old california civic is completely rust free.


>
>>> Once again, I have to remind you that your advices are addressed to
>>> Elle.
>>> Do you know where is she located? I do not recall her mentioning this.
>>
>> then you've not been here very long. or you don't know how to use
>> google. or you're stupid and lazy.
>
> I am here long enough to learn very well how arrogant and impolite you are.

like i care!!!

On 2008-06-28, Pszemol > wrote:
> To apreciate ABS you need to own a car with one.
> Until you drive cars without it you do not know
> what you are missing.

I own a car with ABS. I live in the Northeast. I do find that it
comes in handy when driving on black ice, but if I lived in the South,
where snow and ice are rare, I'd prefer a car without it.



--
Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around ****ed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:25:33 -0700, jim beam > wrote:
>abs is /fantastic/ for people like my grandmother who will do something
>like skid on the freeway, all 4 wheels locked, and sit there pressing
>the pedal as hard as she can while she has absolutely no control of the
>vehicle whatsoever. when i'm old enough to drive like her, maybe i'll
>consider abs. in the mean time, as long as i know about cadence braking
>and friction coefficients, i'm quite happy with standard brakes thanks.

WTF would you know? you live in california. THe biggest problem there
is rain after after 4 months without a drop onto oily pavement and
people driving into each other due to tailgating in fog at 80 mpg.

"jim beam" > wrote in message t...
>>> what is your opinion based on exactly? it's not facts about braking
>>> distances because abs is not necessarily better in that regard. you
>>> /do/ know about abs systems, right?
>>
>> Braking distance is not all what is important in car safety.
>
> eh? that's an incredibly bizarre statement! personally, i'd rather
> avoid the accident than have one, and braking distance is a fundamental
> component of that.

Read again what I have written. I did not say it is not important.
I am just saying it is not the only thing that matters.

>> Do some reading and maybe you will learn what you are missing.
>
> i read extensively. you simply don't know what you don't know.

of course. only you know it all.

>>> i'm not talking cosmetic either - that's why i take the trouble to
>>> specify "s-t-r-u-c-t-u-r-a-l" in the part you so carefully snipped but
>>> didn't annotate.
>>
>> There will be no structural rust on 8 years old car
>
> eh? have you ever been up north?

of course not, only you have been everywhere and know it all.
Everybody else is stupid compared to you, Majesty.

>> but it is a good
>> chance that 20 years old civic will not be strong enough to crash safely.
>
> rubbish. my 19 year old california civic is completely rust free.

California again... Who is talking here about California besides you?
I was talking in general. Of course in places where rust is not an issue
structural rust will not be an issue. How hard is it to understand?

>>>> Once again, I have to remind you that your advices are addressed to
>>>> Elle.
>>>> Do you know where is she located? I do not recall her mentioning this.
>>>
>>> then you've not been here very long. or you don't know how to use
>>> google. or you're stupid and lazy.
>>
>> I am here long enough to learn very well how arrogant and impolite you are.
>
> like i care!!!

Exactly my point - you don't! And this is just the problem.

Pszemol wrote:
> "jim beam" > wrote in message
> t...
>>>> what is your opinion based on exactly? it's not facts about braking
>>>> distances because abs is not necessarily better in that regard. you
>>>> /do/ know about abs systems, right?
>>>
>>> Braking distance is not all what is important in car safety.
>>
>> eh? that's an incredibly bizarre statement! personally, i'd rather
>> avoid the accident than have one, and braking distance is a
>> fundamental component of that.
>
> Read again what I have written. I did not say it is not important.
> I am just saying it is not the only thing that matters.

so wear a helmet!


>
>>> Do some reading and maybe you will learn what you are missing.
>>
>> i read extensively. you simply don't know what you don't know.
>
> of course. only you know it all.
>
>>>> i'm not talking cosmetic either - that's why i take the trouble to
>>>> specify "s-t-r-u-c-t-u-r-a-l" in the part you so carefully snipped
>>>> but didn't annotate.
>>>
>>> There will be no structural rust on 8 years old car
>>
>> eh? have you ever been up north?
>
> of course not, only you have been everywhere and know it all.
> Everybody else is stupid compared to you, Majesty.
>>> but it is a good
>>> chance that 20 years old civic will not be strong enough to crash
>>> safely.
>>
>> rubbish. my 19 year old california civic is completely rust free.
>
> California again... Who is talking here about California besides you?
> I was talking in general. Of course in places where rust is not an issue
> structural rust will not be an issue. How hard is it to understand?

how hard is it for you to stop ducking and diving? you made a blanket
condemnation of older vehicles on the premise of rust. i pointed out
that not only is it not that simple, but that /i/ have the privilege of
living in california where i get to own and drive a vehicle that doesn't
have that problem. so your bull**** blanket condemnation is wrong! or,
in your words, "How hard is it to understand?"


>
>>>>> Once again, I have to remind you that your advices are addressed to
>>>>> Elle.
>>>>> Do you know where is she located? I do not recall her mentioning this.
>>>>
>>>> then you've not been here very long. or you don't know how to use
>>>> google. or you're stupid and lazy.
>>>
>>> I am here long enough to learn very well how arrogant and impolite
>>> you are.
>>
>> like i care!!!
>
> Exactly my point - you don't! And this is just the problem.

cry me a river.

AZ Nomad wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:25:33 -0700, jim beam > wrote:
>> abs is /fantastic/ for people like my grandmother who will do something
>> like skid on the freeway, all 4 wheels locked, and sit there pressing
>> the pedal as hard as she can while she has absolutely no control of the
>> vehicle whatsoever. when i'm old enough to drive like her, maybe i'll
>> consider abs. in the mean time, as long as i know about cadence braking
>> and friction coefficients, i'm quite happy with standard brakes thanks.
>
> WTF would you know? you live in california. THe biggest problem there
> is rain after after 4 months without a drop onto oily pavement and
> people driving into each other due to tailgating in fog at 80 mpg.
>

you contradict yourself.

"jim beam" > wrote in message t...
>>> rubbish. my 19 year old california civic is completely rust free.
>>
>> California again... Who is talking here about California besides you?
>> I was talking in general. Of course in places where rust is not an issue
>> structural rust will not be an issue. How hard is it to understand?
>
> how hard is it for you to stop ducking and diving? you made a blanket
> condemnation of older vehicles on the premise of rust. i pointed out
> that not only is it not that simple, but that /i/ have the privilege of
> living in california where i get to own and drive a vehicle that doesn't
> have that problem. so your bull**** blanket condemnation is wrong! or,
> in your words, "How hard is it to understand?"

Only reader lacking some screws in his head would assume
that my coment about rust would apply to car in California...

Also, I am really not sure why do you think a fact you live in California
is anyhow relevant to this discussion. Are we talking about new
car for you here? How many times are you going to mention
again YOUR location here?

>>>>>> Once again, I have to remind you that your advices are addressed to
>>>>>> Elle.
>>>>>> Do you know where is she located? I do not recall her mentioning this.
>>>>>
>>>>> then you've not been here very long. or you don't know how to use
>>>>> google. or you're stupid and lazy.
>>>>
>>>> I am here long enough to learn very well how arrogant and impolite
>>>> you are.
>>>
>>> like i care!!!
>>
>> Exactly my point - you don't! And this is just the problem.
>
> cry me a river.

You are such a waste of my time...

"jim beam" > wrote in message t...
> AZ Nomad wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 07:25:33 -0700, jim beam > wrote:
>>> abs is /fantastic/ for people like my grandmother who will do something
>>> like skid on the freeway, all 4 wheels locked, and sit there pressing
>>> the pedal as hard as she can while she has absolutely no control of the
>>> vehicle whatsoever. when i'm old enough to drive like her, maybe i'll
>>> consider abs. in the mean time, as long as i know about cadence braking
>>> and friction coefficients, i'm quite happy with standard brakes thanks.
>>
>> WTF would you know? you live in california. THe biggest problem there
>> is rain after after 4 months without a drop onto oily pavement and
>> people driving into each other due to tailgating in fog at 80 mpg.
>
> you contradict yourself.

He just told you that you could benefit from ABS even without snow/ice in your area.