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Air Spring experiences



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 16th 04, 04:30 PM
David Thomas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Air Spring experiences

I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper. I'm
mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).

I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs. What
brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.

Thanks!

David
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  #2  
Old January 17th 04, 02:17 AM
rnf2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"David Thomas" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper. I'm
> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
>
> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs. What
> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
>
> Thanks!
>
> David


Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should be
able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should definately
notdepress the springs overmuch.

You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift with
one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.

rhys


  #3  
Old January 17th 04, 02:17 AM
rnf2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"David Thomas" > wrote in message
om...
> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper. I'm
> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
>
> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs. What
> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
>
> Thanks!
>
> David


Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should be
able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should definately
notdepress the springs overmuch.

You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift with
one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.

rhys


  #4  
Old January 17th 04, 05:49 PM
David Thomas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"rnf2" > wrote in message >...
> "David Thomas" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
> > level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper. I'm
> > mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
> > over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
> > rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
> >
> > I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs. What
> > brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > David

>
> Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
> should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should be
> able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should definately
> notdepress the springs overmuch.
>
> You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift with
> one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
>
> rhys


The 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camping trailer grosses at about 2000
lb (910 Kg) and has a optimal tongue weight of about 10 to 15% (200 to
250 lb or 90 to 114 Kg). Changing the tongue weight either direction
outside this optimal range (I'm told) can cause trailer sway problems.
Even without the trailer (i.e. just loaded for tent camping) this
4Runner squats noticably even though it has the original towing
package (heavier coil spirings on the rear is one item in this
package).

David
  #5  
Old January 17th 04, 05:49 PM
David Thomas
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"rnf2" > wrote in message >...
> "David Thomas" > wrote in message
> om...
> > I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
> > level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper. I'm
> > mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
> > over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
> > rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
> >
> > I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs. What
> > brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > David

>
> Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
> should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should be
> able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should definately
> notdepress the springs overmuch.
>
> You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift with
> one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
>
> rhys


The 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camping trailer grosses at about 2000
lb (910 Kg) and has a optimal tongue weight of about 10 to 15% (200 to
250 lb or 90 to 114 Kg). Changing the tongue weight either direction
outside this optimal range (I'm told) can cause trailer sway problems.
Even without the trailer (i.e. just loaded for tent camping) this
4Runner squats noticably even though it has the original towing
package (heavier coil spirings on the rear is one item in this
package).

David
  #6  
Old January 17th 04, 10:36 PM
Bret Chase
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:17:22 +1300, "rnf2" >
wrote:

>:|
>:|"David Thomas" > wrote in message
e.com...
>:|> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
>:|> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper. I'm
>:|> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
>:|> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
>:|> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
>:|>
>:|> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs. What
>:|> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
>:|>
>:|> Thanks!
>:|>
>:|> David
>:|
>:|Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
>:|should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should be
>:|able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should definately
>:|notdepress the springs overmuch.
>:|
>:|You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift with
>:|one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
>:|
>:|rhys
>:|



I hate to disagree with you here, but a trailer *should* have 10% of
the weight on the tongue (ball hitch) to maintain good stability and
tracking. a trailer with 2 tons on it should have 400lbs on the
tongue. pintle hitchs and 5thwheel/goosenecks can have significantly
more weight on their tongues.

-Bret
  #7  
Old January 17th 04, 10:36 PM
Bret Chase
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:17:22 +1300, "rnf2" >
wrote:

>:|
>:|"David Thomas" > wrote in message
e.com...
>:|> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
>:|> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper. I'm
>:|> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
>:|> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
>:|> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
>:|>
>:|> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs. What
>:|> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
>:|>
>:|> Thanks!
>:|>
>:|> David
>:|
>:|Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
>:|should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should be
>:|able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should definately
>:|notdepress the springs overmuch.
>:|
>:|You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift with
>:|one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
>:|
>:|rhys
>:|



I hate to disagree with you here, but a trailer *should* have 10% of
the weight on the tongue (ball hitch) to maintain good stability and
tracking. a trailer with 2 tons on it should have 400lbs on the
tongue. pintle hitchs and 5thwheel/goosenecks can have significantly
more weight on their tongues.

-Bret
  #8  
Old January 18th 04, 02:16 AM
rnf2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Bret Chase" > wrote in message
news
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:17:22 +1300, "rnf2" >
> wrote:
>
> >:|
> >:|"David Thomas" > wrote in message
> e.com...
> >:|> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
> >:|> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper.

I'm
> >:|> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
> >:|> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
> >:|> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
> >:|>
> >:|> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs.

What
> >:|> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
> >:|>
> >:|> Thanks!
> >:|>
> >:|> David
> >:|
> >:|Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
> >:|should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should

be
> >:|able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should

definately
> >:|notdepress the springs overmuch.
> >:|
> >:|You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift

with
> >:|one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
> >:|
> >:|rhys
> >:|

>
>
> I hate to disagree with you here, but a trailer *should* have 10% of
> the weight on the tongue (ball hitch) to maintain good stability and
> tracking. a trailer with 2 tons on it should have 400lbs on the
> tongue. pintle hitchs and 5thwheel/goosenecks can have significantly
> more weight on their tongues.
>
> -Bret


Went and had a look at the LSTA site.

"The load supported by the tow coupling should be about 10 percent of the
trailer gross weight (30 - 40kg for the average household trailer). The
trailer draw bar should be level or slightly nose down."

I've never had a problem however towing the trailer over hills, tight
curves, gravel roads and hairpin bends. and it stays square behind the tow
vehicle without sway.

It helps that the trailer has springs made for the weight and has shocls or
dampers. Overly light springs or an undampened trailer would tend to sway a
lot more.

rhys


  #9  
Old January 18th 04, 02:16 AM
rnf2
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Bret Chase" > wrote in message
news
> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:17:22 +1300, "rnf2" >
> wrote:
>
> >:|
> >:|"David Thomas" > wrote in message
> e.com...
> >:|> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
> >:|> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper.

I'm
> >:|> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
> >:|> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
> >:|> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
> >:|>
> >:|> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs.

What
> >:|> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
> >:|>
> >:|> Thanks!
> >:|>
> >:|> David
> >:|
> >:|Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
> >:|should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should

be
> >:|able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should

definately
> >:|notdepress the springs overmuch.
> >:|
> >:|You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift

with
> >:|one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
> >:|
> >:|rhys
> >:|

>
>
> I hate to disagree with you here, but a trailer *should* have 10% of
> the weight on the tongue (ball hitch) to maintain good stability and
> tracking. a trailer with 2 tons on it should have 400lbs on the
> tongue. pintle hitchs and 5thwheel/goosenecks can have significantly
> more weight on their tongues.
>
> -Bret


Went and had a look at the LSTA site.

"The load supported by the tow coupling should be about 10 percent of the
trailer gross weight (30 - 40kg for the average household trailer). The
trailer draw bar should be level or slightly nose down."

I've never had a problem however towing the trailer over hills, tight
curves, gravel roads and hairpin bends. and it stays square behind the tow
vehicle without sway.

It helps that the trailer has springs made for the weight and has shocls or
dampers. Overly light springs or an undampened trailer would tend to sway a
lot more.

rhys


  #10  
Old January 18th 04, 04:29 AM
Bret Chase
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:16:16 +1300, "rnf2" >
wrote:

>:|
>:|"Bret Chase" > wrote in message
>:|news >:|> On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:17:22 +1300, "rnf2" >
>:|> wrote:
>:|>
>:|> >:|
>:|> >:|"David Thomas" > wrote in message
>:|> e.com...
>:|> >:|> I'm considering adding rear air springs to my '99 Toyota 4Runner to
>:|> >:|> level the 4x4 when towing our 2003 Coleman Santa Fe pop-up camper.
>:|I'm
>:|> >:|> mainly concerned about the coil springs rubbing holes in the air bags
>:|> >:|> over time. This is my wife's kid taxi so no plans for mudding or any
>:|> >:|> rough off-road (although we do live down a 1/4 mile gravel drive).
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> I'd like to hear from other's experiences with these air springs.
>:|What
>:|> >:|> brand they used, how long the bags last, that sort of thing.
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> Thanks!
>:|> >:|>
>:|> >:|> David
>:|> >:|
>:|> >:|Why do you need to level it? A towed item such as a caravan or trailer
>:|> >:|should be balanced to have about 20-50Kg on the towbar. IOW you should
>:|be
>:|> >:|able to lift it comfortablly without straining, and it should
>:|definately
>:|> >:|notdepress the springs overmuch.
>:|> >:|
>:|> >:|You should be able to pack the camper proper, I've been able to lift
>:|with
>:|> >:|one hand the drawbar of trailers loaded with over 2 tons.
>:|> >:|
>:|> >:|rhys
>:|> >:|
>:|>
>:|>
>:|> I hate to disagree with you here, but a trailer *should* have 10% of
>:|> the weight on the tongue (ball hitch) to maintain good stability and
>:|> tracking. a trailer with 2 tons on it should have 400lbs on the
>:|> tongue. pintle hitchs and 5thwheel/goosenecks can have significantly
>:|> more weight on their tongues.
>:|>
>:|> -Bret
>:|
>:|Went and had a look at the LSTA site.
>:|
>:|"The load supported by the tow coupling should be about 10 percent of the
>:|trailer gross weight (30 - 40kg for the average household trailer). The
>:|trailer draw bar should be level or slightly nose down."
>:|
>:|I've never had a problem however towing the trailer over hills, tight
>:|curves, gravel roads and hairpin bends. and it stays square behind the tow
>:|vehicle without sway.
>:|
>:|It helps that the trailer has springs made for the weight and has shocls or
>:|dampers. Overly light springs or an undampened trailer would tend to sway a
>:|lot more.
>:|
>:|rhys
>:|


I personnally have never seen a trailer with shocks on them. 30-40Kg
is fine for a trailer weighing in at 300-400kg (i.e. the average
household tailer). tongue weight gets real important when you start
talking about short trailers with 4000kg on them (a small skid steer
loader for example). the local rental place LOVES to load them right
up on the tongue of their trailer.... probably 40-50% trailer weight
on the tongue... the trailer tows like crap... when I load the trailer
with the loader more on the wheels it tows soooooooo much better.

-Bret
 




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