Reality check

Rob

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Trying to sort this out ... were you spending $ on others' labor, or doing
most yourself? I'm retiring in three weeks and will have loads of time;
although some things may take a lot more experience than I have to do right.
I'm not looking to create a show car, but also don't want one sitting in
the garage for years and never driving it.

Bob
"Scubabix" > wrote in message
...
> Bob, I couldn't agree more with Tom in Missouri. I bought a "good deal"
78
> Coupe for $4500. I've already got a total of over $11000 and not even
close
> to complete. If you truly want the experience of working on the car, go
for
> it. If you think you want to save some money by buying a project and
doing
> it yourself, don't. I bought a beautiful 96 coupe for what I've already
got
> into my 78. I love the older car and will enjoy it when completed, but I
> should have looked further for a better car in the first place.
>
> Rob
> 78 & 96 coupes
>
> "Bob Buchanan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Thanks for the input ... time to do sme more head scratching
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > "Tom in Missouri" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > > My opinion is that unless you get a Corvette from 1973 through 1988
> really
> > > cheap, you are better off paying a little extra and getting a nice one
> > > rather than a cheap one to work on.
> > >
> > > Examples,
> > >
> > > Ex. 1: $3000 '76 needing interior and paint vs $10,000 nice '76.
> > >
> > > In this case, you will spend $4000 for paint, $2000 for full interior
> > > (carpets, seat covers, dash pad, door panels, etc) and be at $9000.
> > > However, it will take 6 months and you could have driven the $10,000
> from
> > > day one. Also, a $3000 Corvette will require more than what they say.
> > You
> > > can figure engine work, suspension work, etc.
> > >
> > > Ex. 2, $4000 '85 needing paint and interior.
> > >
> > > In this case, you can usually find a real nice '85 for under $10,000
> > easily.
> > > But the project '85 will require the same as the '76 above, but also
the
> > > odds are the electric dash is messed up, the Bose is bad, and so on.
> You
> > > can easily have another $3000 or more in repairs to bring your
> investment
> > in
> > > the car to $13,000 or so, putting you $3000 and 6 months in the hole.
> > >
> > > Then you have to evaluate your experience with Corvettes and your
> > mechanical
> > > skills. Painting a Corvette is not like painting a metal car. You
may
> > > spray an old Camaro or Chevelle for $500 but you won't spray a
Corvette
> > for
> > > that much.
> > >
> > > If you find an '86 or '87 for $7000, it should be in decent shape. if
> you
> > > end up having to put another $7000 in it, then you have paid about
$6500
> > too
> > > much.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Bob Buchanan" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I now have the time and enough cash to pursue a long held wish of
> > owning,
> > > > driving, and working on a Corvette . but I need a reality check.
> > > >
> > > > The plan is to buy an over-the-hill Corvette and go to work on it.
> > Among
> > > > the things I would expect to do a repaint, rebuild the engine and
> > > > transmission, replace other parts, or even systems, seats, etc. I
> > expect
> > > to
> > > > do almost all the work myself; with occasional help from friends.
> > > Serious
> > > > body work does not fit the bill. I would not be trying to restore a
> > worn
> > > > car to 'show' quality; but good enough to have fun driving and look
> OK.
> > > >
> > > > 1) So if I found an '86 or '87 for, say, $5-7k; could I get away
with
> > > > another $5-7k in parts (labor is free), or would I be looking at a
> whole
> > > lot
> > > > more?
> > > >
> > > > 2) C4's with manual transmissions seem to be scarce. While I've
> always
> > > > assumed my Corvette should have one, how different is the driving
> > > experience
> > > > vs. an automatic?
> > > >
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Rob

Actually after I discovered that the 'go cart' was really just that I had
planned to ignore Marty.

I've looked for Corvette and Chevy Traded Magazine on the internet a while
ago and can't find it ... I suppose it is a real magazine ... where do I
find it?

Bob

"Scubabix" > wrote in message
...
> > Bob,
> > Check out this web site for some pristine examples of C-4s & 5s and
their
> > prices. Be sure to scroll to the bottom of the inventory and check out
the
> > go cart.
> > I was there this afternoon.
> >
> > www.corvettesunlimited.com
> >
> >
> Also check out Corvette and Chevy Traded magazine. The cars are usually
> priced a little high, but it'll give you a good idea what's available.
>
> Rob
>
>

Rob

Actually after I discovered that the 'go cart' was really just that I had
planned to ignore Marty.

I've looked for Corvette and Chevy Traded Magazine on the internet a while
ago and can't find it ... I suppose it is a real magazine ... where do I
find it?

Bob

"Scubabix" > wrote in message
...
> > Bob,
> > Check out this web site for some pristine examples of C-4s & 5s and
their
> > prices. Be sure to scroll to the bottom of the inventory and check out
the
> > go cart.
> > I was there this afternoon.
> >
> > www.corvettesunlimited.com
> >
> >
> Also check out Corvette and Chevy Traded magazine. The cars are usually
> priced a little high, but it'll give you a good idea what's available.
>
> Rob
>
>

Tom

What' unique about '73 thru '88 ?

Bob
"Tom in Missouri" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> My opinion is that unless you get a Corvette from 1973 through 1988 really
> cheap, you are better off paying a little extra and getting a nice one
> rather than a cheap one to work on.
>
> Examples,
>
> Ex. 1: $3000 '76 needing interior and paint vs $10,000 nice '76.
>
> In this case, you will spend $4000 for paint, $2000 for full interior
> (carpets, seat covers, dash pad, door panels, etc) and be at $9000.
> However, it will take 6 months and you could have driven the $10,000 from
> day one. Also, a $3000 Corvette will require more than what they say.
You
> can figure engine work, suspension work, etc.
>
> Ex. 2, $4000 '85 needing paint and interior.
>
> In this case, you can usually find a real nice '85 for under $10,000
easily.
> But the project '85 will require the same as the '76 above, but also the
> odds are the electric dash is messed up, the Bose is bad, and so on. You
> can easily have another $3000 or more in repairs to bring your investment
in
> the car to $13,000 or so, putting you $3000 and 6 months in the hole.
>
> Then you have to evaluate your experience with Corvettes and your
mechanical
> skills. Painting a Corvette is not like painting a metal car. You may
> spray an old Camaro or Chevelle for $500 but you won't spray a Corvette
for
> that much.
>
> If you find an '86 or '87 for $7000, it should be in decent shape. if you
> end up having to put another $7000 in it, then you have paid about $6500
too
> much.
>
>
>
> "Bob Buchanan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I now have the time and enough cash to pursue a long held wish of
owning,
> > driving, and working on a Corvette . but I need a reality check.
> >
> > The plan is to buy an over-the-hill Corvette and go to work on it.
Among
> > the things I would expect to do a repaint, rebuild the engine and
> > transmission, replace other parts, or even systems, seats, etc. I
expect
> to
> > do almost all the work myself; with occasional help from friends.
> Serious
> > body work does not fit the bill. I would not be trying to restore a
worn
> > car to 'show' quality; but good enough to have fun driving and look OK.
> >
> > 1) So if I found an '86 or '87 for, say, $5-7k; could I get away with
> > another $5-7k in parts (labor is free), or would I be looking at a whole
> lot
> > more?
> >
> > 2) C4's with manual transmissions seem to be scarce. While I've always
> > assumed my Corvette should have one, how different is the driving
> experience
> > vs. an automatic?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
>

Tom

What' unique about '73 thru '88 ?

Bob
"Tom in Missouri" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> My opinion is that unless you get a Corvette from 1973 through 1988 really
> cheap, you are better off paying a little extra and getting a nice one
> rather than a cheap one to work on.
>
> Examples,
>
> Ex. 1: $3000 '76 needing interior and paint vs $10,000 nice '76.
>
> In this case, you will spend $4000 for paint, $2000 for full interior
> (carpets, seat covers, dash pad, door panels, etc) and be at $9000.
> However, it will take 6 months and you could have driven the $10,000 from
> day one. Also, a $3000 Corvette will require more than what they say.
You
> can figure engine work, suspension work, etc.
>
> Ex. 2, $4000 '85 needing paint and interior.
>
> In this case, you can usually find a real nice '85 for under $10,000
easily.
> But the project '85 will require the same as the '76 above, but also the
> odds are the electric dash is messed up, the Bose is bad, and so on. You
> can easily have another $3000 or more in repairs to bring your investment
in
> the car to $13,000 or so, putting you $3000 and 6 months in the hole.
>
> Then you have to evaluate your experience with Corvettes and your
mechanical
> skills. Painting a Corvette is not like painting a metal car. You may
> spray an old Camaro or Chevelle for $500 but you won't spray a Corvette
for
> that much.
>
> If you find an '86 or '87 for $7000, it should be in decent shape. if you
> end up having to put another $7000 in it, then you have paid about $6500
too
> much.
>
>
>
> "Bob Buchanan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I now have the time and enough cash to pursue a long held wish of
owning,
> > driving, and working on a Corvette . but I need a reality check.
> >
> > The plan is to buy an over-the-hill Corvette and go to work on it.
Among
> > the things I would expect to do a repaint, rebuild the engine and
> > transmission, replace other parts, or even systems, seats, etc. I
expect
> to
> > do almost all the work myself; with occasional help from friends.
> Serious
> > body work does not fit the bill. I would not be trying to restore a
worn
> > car to 'show' quality; but good enough to have fun driving and look OK.
> >
> > 1) So if I found an '86 or '87 for, say, $5-7k; could I get away with
> > another $5-7k in parts (labor is free), or would I be looking at a whole
> lot
> > more?
> >
> > 2) C4's with manual transmissions seem to be scarce. While I've always
> > assumed my Corvette should have one, how different is the driving
> experience
> > vs. an automatic?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> >
>

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:39:39 -0500, "Bob Buchanan"
> wrote:

>I now have the time and enough cash to pursue a long held wish of owning,
>driving, and working on a Corvette . but I need a reality check.
>
>The plan is to buy an over-the-hill Corvette and go to work on it. Among
>the things I would expect to do a repaint, rebuild the engine and
>transmission, replace other parts, or even systems, seats, etc. I expect to
>do almost all the work myself; with occasional help from friends. Serious
>body work does not fit the bill. I would not be trying to restore a worn
>car to 'show' quality; but good enough to have fun driving and look OK.
>
>1) So if I found an '86 or '87 for, say, $5-7k; could I get away with
>another $5-7k in parts (labor is free), or would I be looking at a whole lot
>more?
>
>2) C4's with manual transmissions seem to be scarce. While I've always
>assumed my Corvette should have one, how different is the driving experience
>vs. an automatic?
>
>Bob
>
>
=======================================


You indicate that you can do the work yourself...again very similar to
my situation...

Where we MAY differ is that I am now 61. and honestly am lost with the
computer controlled engine management systems in the newer cars..

I own a 95 6 speed coupe that I absolutely enjoy BUT I dread the
morning it will not start or if it develops a miss etc... fuel, air,
spark etc I can deal with a carb...but would be totally lost when I
was dealing with a computer...

I would be looking for a 74-81 Corvette that had good to great
cosmetics...simply because I can turn a wrench and these cars are
cheap and very easy to work on... and computer free...

I buy cosmetics ... and concentrate on doing the mechanical work.

I can do body work...(slow however) but I can not paint .. just do not
have the talent I guess.. and paint is expensive ..especially since
only about 1 body shop in 10 really have a clue about painting
fiberglass...and have never gotten away for under $4,000 to have one
painted...but again the paint jobs I have had done are show quality
jobs...with me doing most of the prep work...

The only Corvette I own that has an automatic tranny is my 79... and
yes it does have its advantages...(like driving to the Ice Cream
Pallor on Sunday afternoon with my wife along...) its really a nice
"cruiser" but not the kind of car I take out when I want to smile a
lot and throw the car around in...

Bob Griffiths
68 SS 396 Clone Chevelle
64 & 72 Corvette Convertibles
76 79 & 95 Corvette Coupes

BTW the 76 is my overall favorite car to "drive" gets plenty of looks,
although low in HP it still will lay rubber in all the gears and chirp
the tires in 4th...and is pretty damn comfortable to ride in for hours
.... I bought mine years ago for 2 grand... dropped another 9 grand
into her (a guess as I do NOT keep track of costs..only parts) so I
most likely have about 11 K in the car and it is NOT worth that much
but who the hell cares... I had a lot of relaxing evenings in the
garage working on it. I enjoy driving it, and IF I had to sell it I
sure would not loose that much money...Hell the 12 day cruise I took
to the Caribbean this spring set me back 3000 Plus and all I have to
show for that money is a lot of memories...

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 21:39:39 -0500, "Bob Buchanan"
> wrote:

>I now have the time and enough cash to pursue a long held wish of owning,
>driving, and working on a Corvette . but I need a reality check.
>
>The plan is to buy an over-the-hill Corvette and go to work on it. Among
>the things I would expect to do a repaint, rebuild the engine and
>transmission, replace other parts, or even systems, seats, etc. I expect to
>do almost all the work myself; with occasional help from friends. Serious
>body work does not fit the bill. I would not be trying to restore a worn
>car to 'show' quality; but good enough to have fun driving and look OK.
>
>1) So if I found an '86 or '87 for, say, $5-7k; could I get away with
>another $5-7k in parts (labor is free), or would I be looking at a whole lot
>more?
>
>2) C4's with manual transmissions seem to be scarce. While I've always
>assumed my Corvette should have one, how different is the driving experience
>vs. an automatic?
>
>Bob
>
>
=======================================


You indicate that you can do the work yourself...again very similar to
my situation...

Where we MAY differ is that I am now 61. and honestly am lost with the
computer controlled engine management systems in the newer cars..

I own a 95 6 speed coupe that I absolutely enjoy BUT I dread the
morning it will not start or if it develops a miss etc... fuel, air,
spark etc I can deal with a carb...but would be totally lost when I
was dealing with a computer...

I would be looking for a 74-81 Corvette that had good to great
cosmetics...simply because I can turn a wrench and these cars are
cheap and very easy to work on... and computer free...

I buy cosmetics ... and concentrate on doing the mechanical work.

I can do body work...(slow however) but I can not paint .. just do not
have the talent I guess.. and paint is expensive ..especially since
only about 1 body shop in 10 really have a clue about painting
fiberglass...and have never gotten away for under $4,000 to have one
painted...but again the paint jobs I have had done are show quality
jobs...with me doing most of the prep work...

The only Corvette I own that has an automatic tranny is my 79... and
yes it does have its advantages...(like driving to the Ice Cream
Pallor on Sunday afternoon with my wife along...) its really a nice
"cruiser" but not the kind of car I take out when I want to smile a
lot and throw the car around in...

Bob Griffiths
68 SS 396 Clone Chevelle
64 & 72 Corvette Convertibles
76 79 & 95 Corvette Coupes

BTW the 76 is my overall favorite car to "drive" gets plenty of looks,
although low in HP it still will lay rubber in all the gears and chirp
the tires in 4th...and is pretty damn comfortable to ride in for hours
.... I bought mine years ago for 2 grand... dropped another 9 grand
into her (a guess as I do NOT keep track of costs..only parts) so I
most likely have about 11 K in the car and it is NOT worth that much
but who the hell cares... I had a lot of relaxing evenings in the
garage working on it. I enjoy driving it, and IF I had to sell it I
sure would not loose that much money...Hell the 12 day cruise I took
to the Caribbean this spring set me back 3000 Plus and all I have to
show for that money is a lot of memories...

"Bob Buchanan" > wrote in message
...
> Rob
>
> Actually after I discovered that the 'go cart' was really just that I had
> planned to ignore Marty.
>
> I've looked for Corvette and Chevy Traded Magazine on the internet a while
> ago and can't find it ... I suppose it is a real magazine ... where do I
> find it?
>
> Bob

Bob,
Just thought the go-cart was neat and was worth a look see.
My situation is like others are describing. I bought an 84 a month ago with
intentions similar to yours. The car has more problems than I saw initially.
Luckily I can do the work myself.
You are doing what I should have done is ask questions and research before
purchasing.
I do plan to finish and keep the 84 but my reason for the trip to Corvettes
Unlimited yesterday is that I want to get a C-5. Nothing wrong with "his &
hers" is there?
Marty

"Bob Buchanan" > wrote in message
...
> Rob
>
> Actually after I discovered that the 'go cart' was really just that I had
> planned to ignore Marty.
>
> I've looked for Corvette and Chevy Traded Magazine on the internet a while
> ago and can't find it ... I suppose it is a real magazine ... where do I
> find it?
>
> Bob

Bob,
Just thought the go-cart was neat and was worth a look see.
My situation is like others are describing. I bought an 84 a month ago with
intentions similar to yours. The car has more problems than I saw initially.
Luckily I can do the work myself.
You are doing what I should have done is ask questions and research before
purchasing.
I do plan to finish and keep the 84 but my reason for the trip to Corvettes
Unlimited yesterday is that I want to get a C-5. Nothing wrong with "his &
hers" is there?
Marty

Bob,
After reading through the various replies it appears that some or most
missed the part about supplying your own labour for the restoration.

I think the first question you need to ask yourself is if the time you are
investing in the project is to be a labor of love or a means to an end. I,
personally get as much, possibly more, enjoyment from the work I do on my
cars than driving them. When they're finished, I sell them and move onto
another project. It sounds like this may also be how you would like to
occupy your retirement time.

Assuming that you enjoy the work and would find it fun to learn the body and
paint as well as the mechanical skills while doing this job, I think it's a
great idea. If it's a means to an end you are apt to tire of it before
you're done, it's a huge undertaking.

I'm a mechanic by trade that left the industry almost 20 years ago. I got
back into playing with cars a couple of years ago, now delving into the body
paint side as well. Here's a few things I've learned.
While the electronics have changed things immensely in the past 20 years
they are actually easier for a novice to work with. It's pretty much all
plug and play. When I think of how much time I used to spend setting up an
engine that's just been rebuilt before you can start it and the current
situation, I'm amazed. I had the Northstar engine out of my Aurora to
repair a leak between the crankcase halves. Nothing to set up. Plugged
everything in and turned the key and it ran almost like the day I tore it
apart (computer had to re-learn a little, but that requires nothing but
driving). Some specialized equipment required, code readers etc, but the
internet has made available to the average person all the technical
information previously only found in a shop or a dealership. Hell, I've
even seen a step by step procedure for overhauling the infamous dash cluster
in the c4's. All you need is a soldering iron and off the shelf electronic
components.

As I said earlier, I've now been learning the body and paint side of things.
Huge amount of information out there.
Go here http://autobodystore.com/ and go to the forum. Wealth of
information and an online store that caters to the do it yourselfer.
Contrary to other opinions stated here, painting a corvette is not any more
expensive than painting a steel car of similar size. This is a myth
perpetuated by people who's corvette is very special to them and therefore
must require some special paint job and of course by the body shops that
prey on that belief. They all use base coat/clear coat Urathane systems.
Some difference in substrate preperation, but none of the materials are any
more expensive than anything used on the steel body. There may be some
difference in the cost a body shop will charge to do a corvette because of
the expectations of the owner for the completed job. What might be
perfectly acceptable for a Cavalier would not be for the owner of a
Corvette. Time is money, so to be a little more meticulous in your sanding
and masking means it's going to cost more. The beauty of current paint
technology is that the base coat or color coat is very easy to apply because
you are not having to worry about gloss. It's like painting with flat
paint, no worrys about runs from too much paint or orange peel from not
enough. The gloss is in the clear coat. While fussier in it's app, if your
finished job has a run or orange peel or dust or bugs in it you simply sand
it out and buff to a lustrous show car shine. The amateur can now do a show
quality paint job in his own garage! I can not tell you how rewarding that
kind of work is. This part does require more expensive equipment. You need
a $1000 hi capacity compressor, a $300 gun setup, and a supplied air
breathing system at $800 because of the isocyanates in the eurathane paints.
You will also need a handful of air and hand tools. A lot of money in
equipment to do one car, however you can sell them when finished and recoup
a portion (50%?).

One last thing, parts are expensive. Look up the price on seat covers,
carpet packages, interior trim pieces etc. Even if you tackle the overhaul
of the 4 & 3 yourself I will guarantee that the price on the internal parts
will knock your socks off.
Just my opinion.
Steve g.

"Bob Buchanan" > wrote in message
...
> I now have the time and enough cash to pursue a long held wish of owning,
> driving, and working on a Corvette . but I need a reality check.
>
> The plan is to buy an over-the-hill Corvette and go to work on it. Among
> the things I would expect to do a repaint, rebuild the engine and
> transmission, replace other parts, or even systems, seats, etc. I expect
to
> do almost all the work myself; with occasional help from friends.
Serious
> body work does not fit the bill. I would not be trying to restore a worn
> car to 'show' quality; but good enough to have fun driving and look OK.
>
> 1) So if I found an '86 or '87 for, say, $5-7k; could I get away with
> another $5-7k in parts (labor is free), or would I be looking at a whole
lot
> more?
>
> 2) C4's with manual transmissions seem to be scarce. While I've always
> assumed my Corvette should have one, how different is the driving
experience
> vs. an automatic?
>
> Bob
>
>
>