How to buy used car from person who needs proceeds to pay off loan

We have found a used car that we want to buy. The sellers are upside-
down; they owe a bit more than they are getting for the car. They
need our money to pay off the loan so we cannot get a clear title at
the same time that we give them money.

We plan to give them a cashiers check made payable to their lender.
They are going to get a Bill of Sale from the DMV and have their
signatures notarized. (I don't know anything about such a thing as a
Bill of Sale being available from the DMV but they seem pretty sure
that it is available.) They will let us take delivery of the vehicle
when we give them the check, and say that they will Fed-Ex the check
to the lender and should have the title for us in about 10 days.

This is a tricky situation but I'm sure that others have dealt with
it. We have been inside the sellers' home, have met their kids, and
feel comfortable dealing with them. Is there any advice you folks can
offer?

Thank you.

Valley Girl wrote:
> We have found a used car that we want to buy. The sellers are upside-
> down; they owe a bit more than they are getting for the car. They
> need our money to pay off the loan so we cannot get a clear title at
> the same time that we give them money.
>
> We plan to give them a cashiers check made payable to their lender.
> They are going to get a Bill of Sale from the DMV and have their
> signatures notarized. (I don't know anything about such a thing as a
> Bill of Sale being available from the DMV but they seem pretty sure
> that it is available.) They will let us take delivery of the vehicle
> when we give them the check, and say that they will Fed-Ex the check
> to the lender and should have the title for us in about 10 days.
>
> This is a tricky situation but I'm sure that others have dealt with
> it. We have been inside the sellers' home, have met their kids, and
> feel comfortable dealing with them. Is there any advice you folks can
> offer?

To be safe you should transact the entire deal at the lender's office,
that way you can get the released title immediately. Otherwise, the way
you've outlined it above your are still exposed to the danger of not
receiving clear title to the vehicle, especially if they happen to owe
more to the lender than you are paying for the car.

Or, another method would be for you to hire an attorney for the
hour or two it will take to shepherd this deal safely to conclusion.


>
> Thank you.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:48:23 -0700, Valley Girl >
wrote:

>We have found a used car that we want to buy. The sellers are upside-
>down; they owe a bit more than they are getting for the car. They
>need our money to pay off the loan so we cannot get a clear title at
>the same time that we give them money.

I did something like this once. They too couldn't pay off the loan,
they ssid, until they had my money.

I went over, signed a short contract for sale identifying the car by
DIN and saying it would be free of all liens and encumbrances, and
gave them a little more than 5000 in cash, got a receipt for the
money. AIUI, none of this works if they skip town or have no money
to pay me back. Perhaps they rent their house. A lot of houses are
sold to the first resident, but when he leaves, he keeps the house as
an investment and rents it.

They had said that one of them would go to the bank the next morning
and pay off the loan.

And they did that, and the next day included in the papers iirc was
something that showed the car had been paid off.

I guess I didn't pick up the car until the second evening, because I
have no friends willing to take off from work just for something like
this.

I too had been in their home, which it seemed they owned, and I too
trusted them. AT the same time that I thought the man I dealt with
was lying.

He had a teenage sun and a divorcing prgnant daughter, who had left
her husband and was living at home again. So there were four of them
with 5 cars iirc. He said they all wanted to drive the one he was
selling me, because it was a convertible, and by selling it he would
solve that problem. That's got to be the stupidest story I ever
heard. If they all liked driving it, work out a system and sell one
of the other cars. He must have been lying.

He said his 17 year old son had bought the car he was selling, which
was about 7 years old, 6 months earlier, but now had bought a brand
new car. Their house was nice, but I'm sure it had a mortgage and
what kind of parents let a 17 y.o. buy a brand new car. Plus the new
one wasn't a convertible, so it seemes to me, he loses his turn at
driving the convertible they did have. That part seems almost like a
lie too.

Nonetheless, I bought the car and spent NO money on repairs in the
first 10 or 20,000 miles, which was more than 2 years in my case.
There was nothing wrong with the car, even though it was 7 years old.
(all my cars are 7 years old when I buy them and only one had anything
seriously wrong with it, which I should have noticed if I had been
paying attention, but I still would have bought the car for the same
price.)

I like the idea of calling the lender and asking, if there is any
problem with the sale. Ask how much is owed? Why not get a contract,
and mail the check yourself, or together. Or go there. Be apologetic,
but say your father insisted that you do it that way. You can be 60
years old and still have to do what your father or mother says on
certain things. Money is usually the father.

>We plan to give them a cashiers check made payable to their lender.
>They are going to get a Bill of Sale from the DMV and have their
>signatures notarized.

Where is that necessary? Not in Maryland. Is that the normal mthod in
our state, What state is that?????. Here the seller signs something,
I forget what, either the back of the registration or a form, and
doesn't have to notarize anythying, and the buyer gets the car
registered on what he signs.

When people offer more than is necessary, it makes me suspicious.
Maybe they don't mean a bill of sale. Maybe they mean possession of
the Registration or Title. Do you live in a Title state. NOt every
state has titles for cars.

How do you know the car is worth buying? Cases on the people's court
all the time where the car looks nice and runs well for 2 miles, but
has loads of problems. I never get a mechanic to check the car out,
because I a) think I can tell a good car from a bad car like a
mechanic can, almost and b) I'm playing the odds and haven't had a
lemon yet (5 cars in 35 years).

Is this a model that is hard to find? Why this car?

> (I don't know anything about such a thing as a
>Bill of Sale being available from the DMV but they seem pretty sure
>that it is available.)

Look at the DMV webstite. Or better yet call them.

> They will let us take delivery of the vehicle
>when we give them the check,

If they said that, don't let them change their minds. Although the
car won't be of much use. I got caught driving my new car on my old
plates, but he let me go because it was the day after the sale, but 10
days of driving with no registration is looking for trouble. STill,
take the car.

>and say that they will Fed-Ex the check
>to the lender and should have the title for us in about 10 days.

Like I say, they borrowed their money from a bank five miles away.
Didn't take no 10 days, took an hour or less. If I could have gotten
a ride, I could have gotten the car at 11 in the morning.

>This is a tricky situation but I'm sure that others have dealt with
>it. We have been inside the sellers' home, have met their kids, and
>feel comfortable dealing with them. Is there any advice you folks can
>offer?

How much money do they owe on the car?

>Thank you.


If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

Valley Girl > wrote in news:1192160903.972678.148570
@y27g2000pre.googlegroups.com:

> We have found a used car that we want to buy. The sellers are upside-
> down; they owe a bit more than they are getting for the car. They
> need our money to pay off the loan so we cannot get a clear title at
> the same time that we give them money.
>
> We plan to give them a cashiers check made payable to their lender.
> They are going to get a Bill of Sale from the DMV and have their
> signatures notarized. (I don't know anything about such a thing as a
> Bill of Sale being available from the DMV but they seem pretty sure
> that it is available.) They will let us take delivery of the vehicle
> when we give them the check, and say that they will Fed-Ex the check
> to the lender and should have the title for us in about 10 days.
>
> This is a tricky situation but I'm sure that others have dealt with
> it. We have been inside the sellers' home, have met their kids, and
> feel comfortable dealing with them. Is there any advice you folks can
> offer?
>
> Thank you.
>



I guess it depends on the laws in your area.

I bought a car years ago where the seller admitted to me he still owed
money on it. I went to our provincial government's Liens Office
(no Internet back then) and got a printout of all the registered liens on
the vehicle. There was only the one the seller told me about.

I then called the bank branch that had registered the lien and asked how
much it would take to discharge the lien. The lady wouldn't tell me of
course, so I just threw out "what if" numbers until she said "yes".

I then made out a check for that amount to the bank (NOT the SELLER), and
gave that to the seller. We concluded the transaction and I later changed
the ownership over. No problem.

It would possibly have been better if I had driven the check over to the
bank myself to make sure they got it, but distance and time were factors.

--
Tegger

On Oct 11, 8:48 pm, Valley Girl > wrote:
> We have found a used car that we want to buy. The sellers are upside-
> down; they owe a bit more than they are getting for the car. They
> need our money to pay off the loan so we cannot get a clear title at
> the same time that we give them money.
>
> We plan to give them a cashiers check made payable to their lender.
> They are going to get a Bill of Sale from the DMV and have their
> signatures notarized. (I don't know anything about such a thing as a
> Bill of Sale being available from the DMV but they seem pretty sure
> that it is available.) They will let us take delivery of the vehicle
> when we give them the check, and say that they will Fed-Ex the check
> to the lender and should have the title for us in about 10 days.
>
> This is a tricky situation but I'm sure that others have dealt with
> it. We have been inside the sellers' home, have met their kids, and
> feel comfortable dealing with them. Is there any advice you folks can
> offer?
>
> Thank you.

I wouldn't touch it that way. It smells of a scam or at least opens
the door to a possible scam. Others have suggested better and safer
ways

Harry K

On Oct 11, 11:48 pm, Valley Girl > wrote:
> We have found a used car that we want to buy. The sellers are upside-
> down; they owe a bit more than they are getting for the car. They
> need our money to pay off the loan so we cannot get a clear title at
> the same time that we give them money.
>
> We plan to give them a cashiers check made payable to their lender.
> They are going to get a Bill of Sale from the DMV and have their
> signatures notarized. (I don't know anything about such a thing as a
> Bill of Sale being available from the DMV but they seem pretty sure
> that it is available.) They will let us take delivery of the vehicle
> when we give them the check, and say that they will Fed-Ex the check
> to the lender and should have the title for us in about 10 days.
>
> This is a tricky situation but I'm sure that others have dealt with
> it. We have been inside the sellers' home, have met their kids, and
> feel comfortable dealing with them. Is there any advice you folks can
> offer?
>
> Thank you.

We encountered a situation not unlike that when buying a car for my
daughter to take to college. The solution was to check the title
document and confirm the loan and proposed payoff with the lender. A
sales agreement was written and a cashiers check payable to the credit
union for payment of the loan was given the seller. We took
posession of the car. It all went smoothly. Given that loan-to-value
is upside down you might want to close this deal at the lenders
office. You hand the lender a cashiers check for the purchase price
and the seller hands the lender a check for the shortfall and you get
the title with proper endorsement.

Valley Girl wrote:
> We have found a used car that we want to buy. The sellers are upside-
> down; they owe a bit more than they are getting for the car. They
> need our money to pay off the loan so we cannot get a clear title at
> the same time that we give them money.
>
> We plan to give them a cashiers check made payable to their lender.
> They are going to get a Bill of Sale from the DMV and have their
> signatures notarized. (I don't know anything about such a thing as a
> Bill of Sale being available from the DMV but they seem pretty sure
> that it is available.) They will let us take delivery of the vehicle
> when we give them the check, and say that they will Fed-Ex the check
> to the lender and should have the title for us in about 10 days.
>
> This is a tricky situation but I'm sure that others have dealt with
> it. We have been inside the sellers' home, have met their kids, and
> feel comfortable dealing with them. Is there any advice you folks can
> offer?
>
> Thank you.
>


Like others have said, you need to deal directly with the lien holder.

A 'notarized' signature on a 'deal' is nothing but a scam artist at work
and means nothing except run fast!

"I swear I am who I say I am?" Give me a break....

Mike

"Mike Romain" > wrote in message
ng.com...
> Valley Girl wrote:
>> We have found a used car that we want to buy. The sellers are upside-
>> down; they owe a bit more than they are getting for the car. They
>> need our money to pay off the loan so we cannot get a clear title at
>> the same time that we give them money.
>>
>> We plan to give them a cashiers check made payable to their lender.
>> They are going to get a Bill of Sale from the DMV and have their
>> signatures notarized. (I don't know anything about such a thing as a
>> Bill of Sale being available from the DMV but they seem pretty sure
>> that it is available.) They will let us take delivery of the vehicle
>> when we give them the check, and say that they will Fed-Ex the check
>> to the lender and should have the title for us in about 10 days.
>>
>> This is a tricky situation but I'm sure that others have dealt with
>> it. We have been inside the sellers' home, have met their kids, and
>> feel comfortable dealing with them. Is there any advice you folks can
>> offer?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>
>
> Like others have said, you need to deal directly with the lien holder.
>
> A 'notarized' signature on a 'deal' is nothing but a scam artist at work and
> means nothing except run fast!
>
> "I swear I am who I say I am?" Give me a break....

Back-off man! I'm "notarized" !

Notary ...? .... Notary ....? We don' got ta show you no steenken NOTARY !!




>
> Mike

In article .com>,
Valley Girl > wrote:
>We have found a used car that we want to buy. The sellers are upside-
>down; they owe a bit more than they are getting for the car. They
>need our money to pay off the loan so we cannot get a clear title at
>the same time that we give them money.

You've managed to type that without smelling a scam?

>This is a tricky situation but I'm sure that others have dealt with
>it. We have been inside the sellers' home, have met their kids, and
>feel comfortable dealing with them. Is there any advice you folks can
>offer?

Walk away.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

>We have found a used car that we want to buy. The sellers are upside-
>down; they owe a bit more than they are getting for the car. They
>need our money to pay off the loan so we cannot get a clear title at
>the same time that we give them money.
>
>We plan to give them a cashiers check made payable to their lender.
>They are going to get a Bill of Sale from the DMV and have their
>signatures notarized. (I don't know anything about such a thing as a
>Bill of Sale being available from the DMV but they seem pretty sure
>that it is available.) They will let us take delivery of the vehicle
>when we give them the check, and say that they will Fed-Ex the check
>to the lender and should have the title for us in about 10 days.

How about this approach? THEY give YOU a certified check made
payable to their lender, the keys to the car, the car, and a signed
statement authorizing transfer of the car to you. You cash the
certified check and wait a sufficient period of time for it to come
back to you as forged or stolen if it is. (I think this is a minimum
of 60 days, and 7 years is probably sufficient as long as no foreign
banks are involved). YOU take the cash from their check, plus your
check, to the lender. You get back a title (I think that's what
is being called a "bill of sale").

Now, if these terms are acceptable to the sellers, they are probably not
scammers, but they are fools, as YOU could be the scammer.

This sort of thing is done all the time with house sales using an
escrow agent. I think you could use their lender as an intermediary.
If you hand over the check, you walk out with ownership of the car.
Settle for nothing less.

I thought a "bill of sale" was something created by the seller as
documentation of the deal, laying out what was sold, price, date,
terms of the deal, etc. It acts as a receipt for the buyer, and
in the case of cars, it may be required by the state to determine
the amount of sales tax due, a necessary part of transferring a
title that the state will insist on. In the case of cars and houses,
it doesn't do the transfer of the title or deed by itself.

>This is a tricky situation but I'm sure that others have dealt with
>it. We have been inside the sellers' home, have met their kids, and
>feel comfortable dealing with them. Is there any advice you folks can
>offer?