Mega-MFFY

In article .com>, gpsman wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>>
>> This best describes the way I ride:
>>
>> http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/docs/pamanual.pdf
>>
>> Start with chapter 2.
>> -----
><quote> With very few exceptions, the safest way to ride is as part of
> the traffic, going with the flow of the normal traffic pattern.
></quote>

> That isn't what you describe with your tales of Sloths holding you up
> on your bicycle.

What deluded concept are you going by now?

> Slower drivers are part of the "normal traffic pattern".

They should be in the right lane, and capable of accelerating at least as
well as a bicycle.

> If you rode
> "going with the flow of the normal traffic pattern" you'd have little,
> if any problem with slower drivers (especially on a *bike*). So I don't
> think that "best describes the way" you ride.

Oh, you're confused as usual. You equate acceleration at a light with
midblock driving. But I already explained that to you, so you must just
be outright stupid. (or a troll)

> Except everyone is speeding everywhere at all times, of course. Where
> in the **** are all these slow drivers coming from?

I explained this to you earlier. The drivers accelerate like 50 weight
oil going uphill on a 10 below zero F day. However, they will continue to
acclerate until something gets in their way. Thusly they end up speeding
between lights but are very slow at intersections. Of course you won't
comprehend this any better this time.

> You seem just a tad bit difficult to satisfy... or comprehend.

*yawn* your rutine is getting old.

"Brent P" > wrote in message
>
>> I don't have any such problem. Where did I say that?
>
> It would appear you do, since you apparently don't think that is
> something to strive for.

Please cite references. All my posts are still available. You really must
learn to read more carefully.

>> If you're going to drive on public roadways,
>> you have to tolerate the public, and that means some folk who simply
>> haven't
>> achieved your level of perfection in operating a vehicle.
>
> The arguement of the lowest common demonator.

No, not at all. An accurate characterization would be to call it the
argument of the bell curve. There will always be a few very good drivers, a
few very bad drivers, and a whole truckload of eminently average drivers in
the middle.

< cut out puerile insults...>

>
> I see a lot of traffic.
>
> You can only hope someone cross the center line .....

Brent, I drive 6000 miles per month in a professional capacity. I train
other drivers for my company. Neither I nor anyone I know encounters as
many hair-raising events as you and scott and a couple of others here seem
to. I can only reach my own conclusion as to the cause of this anomaly.

In article >, John Gaquin wrote:
>
> "Brent P" > wrote in message
>>
>>> I don't have any such problem. Where did I say that?
>>
>> It would appear you do, since you apparently don't think that is
>> something to strive for.

> Please cite references. All my posts are still available. You really must
> learn to read more carefully.

Well what exactly are you arguing for then? Because it seems you
shouldn't have any beef with, Scott, myself, or any one else that
believes in that golden rule then. But yet, you do. So what's the
problem?

>>> If you're going to drive on public roadways,
>>> you have to tolerate the public, and that means some folk who simply
>>> haven't achieved your level of perfection in operating a vehicle.

>> The arguement of the lowest common demonator.

> No, not at all. An accurate characterization would be to call it the
> argument of the bell curve. There will always be a few very good drivers, a
> few very bad drivers, and a whole truckload of eminently average drivers in
> the middle.

Yet you find any action to communicate to the bottom end of that bell
curve that they are doing wrong to be wrong in and of itself. That we
should tolerate them without a peep. All that does is reinforce that they
aren't doing anything wrong and demonstrate to other people that they can
behave in the same self centered way and nobody will complain. This in
turn lowers the bar. You are arguing for the lowest common demonator when
you call for infinite tolerance of self serving, lazy stupidity.

>< cut out puerile insults...>

Translation: you are embarassed about your false assumptions.

>> I see a lot of traffic.
>> You can only hope someone cross the center line .....

> Brent, I drive 6000 miles per month in a professional capacity.

Wooptie do.

> I train other drivers for my company.

In something big I suppose.

> Neither I nor anyone I know encounters as
> many hair-raising events as you and scott and a couple of others here seem
> to. I can only reach my own conclusion as to the cause of this anomaly.

Professional drivers are usually chock full of stories of what
'four-wheelers' have done around them.


I'll tell you what happened today. I am going along in the left lane of
a four lane road behind another driver. A van gets on my rear bumper
just before a red signal and we all stop. The light goes green and the
vehicle in front of me accelerates at a reasonable pace, but not all
that swiftly. Of course the van is on my ass. Having been faster than
the truck in the right lane, I move over to the right, since it's obvious
the van driver is going to continue to be on my ass unless I do. (he made
no effort, signal, or move to change lanes)

The van driver sucks up to the bumper of the vehicle I had been behind. I
am moving slightly faster in the right lane, so guess what, the van
driver changes lanes and is once again on my ass. I decide to remain ~1mph
below the posted limit. The van driver gets closer then moves back into the
left lane. I return to the normal speed of traffic and pass the vehicle
on my left and move into the left lane. The van driver changes lanes and
is coming down the right lane, pulls up next to me at the next light and
flips me off.

So, what did I do so illegal or even against common advice mr.
professional who never has any incidents?

This is the road environment in which I drive and ride. I have been
physically attacked when I am on bicycle for merely being on the road.
I've had drivers come across the center line and aim at me for no reason
but their own amusement. I'd love to hear you explain how that's my
fault, mr. professional.

Oh, and while we are talking about professional drivers, how is it that
when I choose to drive the speed limit on an interstate or the weather is
poor, there is almost always some professional driver in a big rig who
decides that less than 5 feet is a suitable following distance? And that
one is not just me either since I see semi truck drivers rutinely
following drivers of passenger vehicles between 3 foot and one car length.

What sort of training do you folks give them anyway?

"Brent P" > wrote in message
>
> Well what exactly are you arguing for then? ......So what's the
> problem?

There's nothing wrong with being frustrated. Everyone gets frustrated in
traffic. Its the nature of the beast. The problem is this endless stream
of daily stories about this stupid bitch doing this to me, or that asshole
doing that to me, etc., etc. Problem 1) I don't believe that just a few
people can have so regular a stream of traffic incidents. You guys are
either very inattentive drivers, or you're just making this stuff up.
Problem 2) A steady stream of anecdotes pointing out the ineptitude of
others is naught more than a thinly veiled shout for attention -- look at
me! see how great I am! all these other sloths are jerks, but i'm better
than all of them! I've been in the transportation industry for over 30
years, and one thing I've learned is that those who make a point of telling
you how good they are, usually aren't.

>>> I see a lot of traffic.
>>> You can only hope someone cross the center line .....
>
>> Brent, I drive 6000 miles per month in a professional capacity.
>
> Wooptie do.

Mature response. That's good.

>
>> I train other drivers for my company.
>
> In something big I suppose.

Unwarranted assumption. Where's Arif -- doesn't he monitor these things?

>
>> Neither I nor anyone I know encounters as
>> many hair-raising events as you and scott and a couple of others here
>> seem
>> to. I can only reach my own conclusion as to the cause of this anomaly.
>
> Professional drivers are usually chock full of stories of what
> 'four-wheelers' have done around them.

Possibly true, but irrelevant to my comment.


> I'll tell you what happened today. I am going along in the left lane of
> a four lane road behind another driver. A van gets on my rear bumper
<snip>
> ....The van driver changes lanes and
> is coming down the right lane, pulls up next to me at the next light and
> flips me off.
>
> So, what did I do so illegal or even against common advice mr.
> professional who never has any incidents?

Nothing illegal, so far as I can tell, but he flipped you off because you
were ****ing with him. That's easy to see. I don't advocate that response,
but that's my analysis. He was clearly in a rush (no judgement as to why,
or on his methods - irrelevant to your question) You said you moved to the
right to pass vehicle 1 in front of you, and then when van moved over behind
you you deliberately held your speed down. When van moved back left, you
sped up and passed #1 on the right.. You were ****ing with him, and he
flipped you off. That is easy to see. Now- question: how does your
handling of this van driver mesh with your earlier exhortation on driving
such that you don't negatively impact others?


> This is the road environment in which I drive and ride. I have been
> physically attacked when I am on bicycle for merely being on the road.
> I've had drivers come across the center line and aim at me for no reason
> but their own amusement. I'd love to hear you explain how that's my
> fault, mr. professional.

I have no explanation for it, but I would suggest that if it happens
regularly to you, but doesn't seem to happen to others very much, you might
want to analyze what you may be doing that seems to **** people off.

>
> Oh, and while we are talking about professional drivers, how is it that
> when I choose to drive the speed limit on an interstate or the weather is
> poor, there is almost always some professional driver in a big rig who
> decides that less than 5 feet is a suitable following distance?

I don't know the answer to that.

> What sort of training do you folks give them anyway?

I don't know what you're talking about. Was that another unwarranted
assumption?

Brent P wrote: <brevity snip>
>
> Oh, and while we are talking about professional drivers, how is it that
> when I choose to drive the speed limit on an interstate or the weather is
> poor, there is almost always some professional driver in a big rig who
> decides that less than 5 feet is a suitable following distance? And that
> one is not just me either since I see semi truck drivers rutinely
> following drivers of passenger vehicles between 3 foot and one car length.
>
> What sort of training do you folks give them anyway?
-----
It doesn't matter much what training we give them, their parents taught
them to drive and that's exactly how they're most likely to continue to
drive as soon as they're out of sight. It's the exact same perspective
of many here in r.a.d.: Safety be damned, I wanna drive fast. If
you're going slower than me you're in my way and a MFFY.

Where... do you think truck drivers come from? There isn't a truck
driver nursery in the hospital, they come from the ranks of the
****-poorest 4-wheeler drivers.

Most truck drivers shouldn't be allowed to drive a car, hardly anyone
disagress with that (except truck drivers) but the statistics point to
a rather exemplary overall safety record for these imbeciles and a
recent AAA report concluded that 75% of all truck/car collisions are
caused by the car.

*That* says a lot to me... you can interpret it for yourself.
-----

- gpsman

"Brent P" > wrote in message
>
> This best describes the way I ride:
>
> http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/docs/pamanual.pdf

If you ride as described herein, then my assumption was wrong. If you do,
then you will be about the *tenth* on-road bicycle rider in my lifetime that
I have encountered or heard of who properly follows vehicular rules.
[Caveat: a fair amount of the cyclists I see are urban messengers, possibly
not representative of the whole.]

"gpsman" > wrote in message
>
> Where... do you think truck drivers come from? ....they come from the
> ranks of the
> ****-poorest 4-wheeler drivers.
>
> Most truck drivers shouldn't be allowed to drive a car,

Now, I'm going to disagree here. It seems true that around urban areas,
lots of local truck drivers, particularly construction vehicles, do hoss
around a lot, and are really bad. But you get out on the road where the
long distance folks are, and my experience is that they're generally very
professional.

John Gaquin wrote:

> "Brent P" > wrote in message

>>This best describes the way I ride:
>>
>>http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/docs/pamanual.pdf

> If you ride as described herein, then my assumption was wrong.

Ah, so you admit it was an assumption, and, therefore, not a
"conclusion."

"Arif Khokar" > wrote in message news:Sdqqf.1771
>
> Ah, so you admit it was an assumption, and, therefore, not a "conclusion."
>

Just for you, Arif..... just for you. You're clearly in need of a thrill,
and are so easily excited.

John Gaquin wrote:
> "gpsman" > wrote
> >
> > Most truck drivers shouldn't be allowed to drive a car,
>
> Now, I'm going to disagree here. It seems true that around urban areas,
> lots of local truck drivers, particularly construction vehicles, do hoss
> around a lot, and are really bad. But you get out on the road where the
> long distance folks are, and my experience is that they're generally very
> professional.
-----
Granted, local drivers are the worst of the worst... but that ain't
saying much.

But I think my initial assessment is accurate: People overwhelmingly
drive the way their parents taught them by their example. And that's
no way to drive any truck.

I think the attitude of the average r.a.d. poster is pretty
representative of the average driver and the average truck driver: I
know it all; I'm the best driver, everybody else sucks; everybody
driving slower than me is in my way; I have the right to place other's
safety at risk as an act of showing my distain for their inferior
driving practices; you're the MFFY, not me.

Truck drivers do find themselves in a no-win situation as there is no
correct speed for a truck in the public's perception. They're either
going too fast or too slow at any speed they might happen to choose.
-----

- gpsman