98 GT evap system leak

The fuel pump in my 98 GT died awhile back and I paid about $700 to
have it replaced. The high price reflects the fact that the pump is in
the tank and the whole tank needs to come off to make the change.
(Someone will have to explain to me why this is good engineering.)

In any case, shortly after the fix, the MIL goes on with P0455 "Gross
Evap Leak" DTC set. I take it back, and, of course the geniuses at the
garage just clear the DTC and tell me to go home. (I could have done
that myself!)

Anyway, a couple of weeks later, the MIL's back on with the same DTC.
(It took a couple of weeks because I seldom drive the car. I'm a grad
student and do a lot of walking lately.)

There was no problem with the evap system before I had the pump
replaced. It seems pretty obvious that they screwed something up when
the dropped the tank. I'm having a hard time getting the garage to
take this seriously or to accept ownership of this problem -- which
they obvious caused.

It's not a driveability concern, but it *is* necessary for smog in CA,
and so it's an real ownership concern.

Anybody have ideas how to get this fixed *cheaply*? I don't think the
garage that did the fuel pump has a smoke machine. If they did, it
would take a few minutes to find the leak and tighten/replace whatever
went wrong.

And for god's sake, no, I did not forget to tighten the gas cap! I
understand that is a frequent source of this DTC, but it's not
relevant here. I have had the car for 9 years and have never had this
issue before, now it appears chronic.

Any help or tips are appreciated!

thanks,
dave j

In article .com>, Dave J wrote:
>
> The fuel pump in my 98 GT died awhile back and I paid about $700 to
> have it replaced. The high price reflects the fact that the pump is in
> the tank and the whole tank needs to come off to make the change.
> (Someone will have to explain to me why this is good engineering.)

Electric fuel pumps are submersed in the fuel tank I believe for
performance (of the pump) and safety issues. Most fuel injected cars are
recent designs and the tank is located under the back seat and is easily
removed through the interior by way of an access panel that is exposed by
removing the seat.

However, the SN95 mustang layout evolved from the FOX platform, which
was designed for carburated engines. The fuel tank is under the trunk.
This why the whole fuel tank needs to come out of the car to access it.

IMO there should have been a removable panel in the trunk floor that when
removed exposed the top of the tank where the fuel pump is located and
allow it's removal through the trunk. Why that wasn't done I am not sure.
But I'll wager it was because of cost, post crash fuel fire risk to
passengers, and/or structure of the unit body.

> In any case, shortly after the fix, the MIL goes on with P0455 "Gross
> Evap Leak" DTC set. I take it back, and, of course the geniuses at the
> garage just clear the DTC and tell me to go home. (I could have done
> that myself!)

> Anyway, a couple of weeks later, the MIL's back on with the same DTC.
> (It took a couple of weeks because I seldom drive the car. I'm a grad
> student and do a lot of walking lately.)

> There was no problem with the evap system before I had the pump
> replaced. It seems pretty obvious that they screwed something up when
> the dropped the tank. I'm having a hard time getting the garage to
> take this seriously or to accept ownership of this problem -- which
> they obvious caused.

They missed a hose connection or caused a sealing issue somewhere
probably.

> It's not a driveability concern, but it *is* necessary for smog in CA,
> and so it's an real ownership concern.

Of course.

> Anybody have ideas how to get this fixed *cheaply*? I don't think the
> garage that did the fuel pump has a smoke machine. If they did, it
> would take a few minutes to find the leak and tighten/replace whatever
> went wrong.

Cheaply depends on where the leak is. The shop should take care of it.

It may be where the filler pipe enters the tank.

"Dave J" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> The fuel pump in my 98 GT died awhile back and I paid about $700 to
> have it replaced. The high price reflects the fact that the pump is in
> the tank and the whole tank needs to come off to make the change.
> (Someone will have to explain to me why this is good engineering.)
>
> In any case, shortly after the fix, the MIL goes on with P0455 "Gross
> Evap Leak" DTC set. I take it back, and, of course the geniuses at the
> garage just clear the DTC and tell me to go home. (I could have done
> that myself!)
>
> Anyway, a couple of weeks later, the MIL's back on with the same DTC.
> (It took a couple of weeks because I seldom drive the car. I'm a grad
> student and do a lot of walking lately.)
>
> There was no problem with the evap system before I had the pump
> replaced. It seems pretty obvious that they screwed something up when
> the dropped the tank. I'm having a hard time getting the garage to
> take this seriously or to accept ownership of this problem -- which
> they obvious caused.
>
> It's not a driveability concern, but it *is* necessary for smog in CA,
> and so it's an real ownership concern.
>
> Anybody have ideas how to get this fixed *cheaply*? I don't think the
> garage that did the fuel pump has a smoke machine. If they did, it
> would take a few minutes to find the leak and tighten/replace whatever
> went wrong.
>
> And for god's sake, no, I did not forget to tighten the gas cap! I
> understand that is a frequent source of this DTC, but it's not
> relevant here. I have had the car for 9 years and have never had this
> issue before, now it appears chronic.
>
> Any help or tips are appreciated!
>

they should have replaced the tank to filler neck seal, can't reuse it,
always leaks if you do. They should have charged you $27 or so for it,
should be on the invoice as a part cost.

Okay, so the garage just called me back and told me that he thinks
it's the evap system purge valve. He thinks it'd be $65 for the part
and another $50 for labor. He says it's /coincidental/ that this valve
(which is located somewhere up front -- I don't have my Chiltons in
front of me right now) failed at the same time they changed the fuel
pump.

Mind you, this diagnosis was performed on the phone, based only on the
DTC. Other than hooking up the reader and clearing the code from last
time, they have not seen the car since the issue came up. He says he's
seen this 100 times with various Ford products.

Argh!

-- dave j


> > Anybody have ideas how to get this fixed *cheaply*? I don't think the
> > garage that did the fuel pump has a smoke machine. If they did, it
> > would take a few minutes to find the leak and tighten/replace whatever
> > went wrong.
>
> Cheaply depends on where the leak is. The shop should take care of it.

In article . com>, Dave J wrote:

> Okay, so the garage just called me back and told me that he thinks
> it's the evap system purge valve. He thinks it'd be $65 for the part
> and another $50 for labor. He says it's /coincidental/ that this valve
> (which is located somewhere up front -- I don't have my Chiltons in
> front of me right now) failed at the same time they changed the fuel
> pump.

It's not. the purge valve has it's own code. The motorcaft part cost me
about $10 retail when I replaced it. It's two hoses and an electrical
connector and pretty easy to get at under the hood. Takes 5 minutes.

$115 for that.... I should be a mechanic... jebbus.

Well, now after googling on it for 1/2 hour, I am not sure if it was
the "vapor management valve" or the "evap canistor vent solenoid" he
was talking about. There appear to be two valves in the system, one
normally open, the other normally closed. In any case, yeah, if I can
do it in 20 minutes (I'll inflate your 5min estimate by 4x for my
general cluelessness under the hood), I'll give it a try myself.

But I also suspect, as you do, that this is not the case. Another
poster (Loman) mentioned that it could be a gasket where the filler
tube meets the tank. That's interesting, as I did not see that part on
the invoice after the pump change. On the other hand, that it's
curious that the leak from that gasket would be large enough to cause
the "gross leak" code. I'd expect to see a few drops of fuel when
filling if the gasket were seriously damaged.

-- dave j

> It's not. the purge valve has it's own code. The motorcaft part cost me
> about $10 retail when I replaced it. It's two hoses and an electrical
> connector and pretty easy to get at under the hood. Takes 5 minutes.
>
> $115 for that.... I should be a mechanic... jebbus.

> It's not. the purge valve has it's own code. The motorcaft part cost me
> about $10 retail when I replaced it. It's two hoses and an electrical
> connector and pretty easy to get at under the hood. Takes 5 minutes.

What kind of car do you have?

I looked up the part online and saw that it was about $31 -- $65 from
the dealership. What's more, in my car (98 GT vert) it is not under
the hood. It's under the right fender, mounted near the charcoal
canister. The whole fender needs to come off, which unfortunately
requires the front bumper to come off, as well as headlight and
foglamp, and about 30 little clips and screws.

Not a five minute job. Sometimes I really loathe this car!

-- dave j

Dave J wrote:
> Well, now after googling on it for 1/2 hour, I am not sure if it was
> the "vapor management valve" or the "evap canistor vent solenoid" he
> was talking about. There appear to be two valves in the system, one
> normally open, the other normally closed. In any case, yeah, if I can
> do it in 20 minutes (I'll inflate your 5min estimate by 4x for my
> general cluelessness under the hood), I'll give it a try myself.
>
> But I also suspect, as you do, that this is not the case. Another
> poster (Loman) mentioned that it could be a gasket where the filler
> tube meets the tank. That's interesting, as I did not see that part on
> the invoice after the pump change. On the other hand, that it's
> curious that the leak from that gasket would be large enough to cause
> the "gross leak" code. I'd expect to see a few drops of fuel when
> filling if the gasket were seriously damaged.
>
> -- dave j
>
>> It's not. the purge valve has it's own code. The motorcaft part cost me
>> about $10 retail when I replaced it. It's two hoses and an electrical
>> connector and pretty easy to get at under the hood. Takes 5 minutes.
>>
>> $115 for that.... I should be a mechanic... jebbus.
>
>

Wow, I should pay myself $700.00 ha! I had a shop
install an after market pump back in 01 and they
rolled the gasket that seals the cover for the
pump. On my first fill-up gas poured on the ground
till it got below the top level.
I would think something like that could cause an
air leak setting off the code.
I later replaced that pump myself with the stock
pump (I use a KB Boost-A-Pump)and never replaced
the filler neck seal without ever a problem.

--
Tropic Green Y2K Mustang GT
W/bits & pieces
http://tinyurl.com/yjdb66

In article .com>, Dave J wrote:
>
>> It's not. the purge valve has it's own code. The motorcaft part cost me
>> about $10 retail when I replaced it. It's two hoses and an electrical
>> connector and pretty easy to get at under the hood. Takes 5 minutes.
>
> What kind of car do you have?

97 mustang GT. The evap purge valve is less than an air filter. I bought
it a local motorcraft distributor.

> I looked up the part online and saw that it was about $31 -- $65 from
> the dealership. What's more, in my car (98 GT vert) it is not under
> the hood. It's under the right fender, mounted near the charcoal
> canister. The whole fender needs to come off, which unfortunately
> requires the front bumper to come off, as well as headlight and
> foglamp, and about 30 little clips and screws.

> Not a five minute job. Sometimes I really loathe this car!

You must be digging at something entirely different.

The evap purge valve is small solinoid located near the firewall on the
passenger side along the fender apron under the hood.

Just checked at rockauto... motorcraft version 1 is $38.89 the other
$50.79.... someone inflated the price in the last few years. I paid about
$10 for it.

This is what it looks like:

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/ge...aft/CX1324.jpg

> You must be digging at something entirely different.

I'll look again. The part I found online was different than this. It
looked like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2ms7n2

But in any case, I just cannot find that under my hood. I have a
strong feeling that something changed in the model years 97-98,
because my Chilton manual also shows the valve where you say it is.
But in my car, I can't find it.

Maybe I should look more closely.

Thank you for all your help so far, by the way!

-- dave j