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1990 civic gas tank leak



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 25th 05, 04:55 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
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Posts: n/a
Default 1990 civic gas tank leak

E Meyer wrote:

> Wrong.


really? in california, we have signs at all the gas stations saying its
illegal to dispense gasoline into an unapproved container, yadda, yadda,
yadda....

only makes sense.
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  #12  
Old November 25th 05, 06:08 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
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Posts: n/a
Default 1990 civic gas tank leak

"SoCalMike" > wrote
> E Meyer wrote:
>
> > Wrong.

>
> really? in california, we have signs at all the gas stations saying its
> illegal to dispense gasoline into an unapproved container, yadda, yadda,
> yadda....
>
> only makes sense.


I've seen similar in other states: Stations won't sell you gas unless it's
in a certified container.

Curly's explanation about why drivers are warned not to overfill gas tanks
is the first I've seen that makes any sense. Nice to have a reason not to go
beyond one click now.



  #13  
Old November 25th 05, 02:25 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
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Posts: n/a
Default 1990 civic gas tank leak

On 11/24/05 9:55 PM, in article ,
"SoCalMike" > wrote:

> E Meyer wrote:
>
>> Wrong.

>
> really? in california, we have signs at all the gas stations saying its
> illegal to dispense gasoline into an unapproved container, yadda, yadda,
> yadda....
>
> only makes sense.


We have signs in Texas as well about dispensing into unapproved containers,
do not get back in car while pumping, turn off cell phones, etc. I have
also occasionally seen topping-off on the list of do nots. I have yet to see
anything that says its ILLEGAL to top off. If it is, then I estimate
somewhere around 99% of drivers using self service gas pumps around here are
breaking laws.

As I understand it, the manufacturers recommend against it because it can
back flow into the charcoal canister and mess up the EFE system (You will
get a "check engine" light if this ever happens). The EPA doesn't like it
because the little bit that spills on the ground can evaporate into the air.
Any explosion risk that might be there is from static sparks and is
addressed by the "do not get back in car while pumping gas" admonition
(which is also rampantly ignored).

The thing I am taking issue with here is the assertion that it is illegal to
top off. If that were the case, then self service gas stations would have to
be eliminated, since the station owners would be liable for any law breaking
done using their property.

  #14  
Old November 25th 05, 04:23 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
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Posts: n/a
Default 1990 civic gas tank leak

E Meyer wrote:
>
> On 11/24/05 9:55 PM, in article ,
> "SoCalMike" > wrote:
>
> > E Meyer wrote:
> >
> >> Wrong.

> >
> > really? in california, we have signs at all the gas stations saying its
> > illegal to dispense gasoline into an unapproved container, yadda, yadda,
> > yadda....
> >
> > only makes sense.

>
> We have signs in Texas as well about dispensing into unapproved containers,
> do not get back in car while pumping, turn off cell phones, etc. I have
> also occasionally seen topping-off on the list of do nots. I have yet to see
> anything that says its ILLEGAL to top off. If it is, then I estimate
> somewhere around 99% of drivers using self service gas pumps around here are
> breaking laws.
>
> As I understand it, the manufacturers recommend against it because it can
> back flow into the charcoal canister and mess up the EFE system (You will
> get a "check engine" light if this ever happens). The EPA doesn't like it
> because the little bit that spills on the ground can evaporate into the air.
> Any explosion risk that might be there is from static sparks and is
> addressed by the "do not get back in car while pumping gas" admonition
> (which is also rampantly ignored).
>
> The thing I am taking issue with here is the assertion that it is illegal to
> top off. If that were the case, then self service gas stations would have to
> be eliminated, since the station owners would be liable for any law breaking
> done using their property.


--------------------------------

I'm guessing you're not going to phone the fire department, right?

If I cram 60 litres of ice cold gasoline into my CR-V (so there's no
room for expansion in the tank) and park it on the street in the summer,
where are you expecting the excess will go when it expands to maybe 64
litres? Down the nearest sewer drain? That's the kind of calls the fire
department / hazardous materials team LOVES to get. Where will the city
send the bill, and will the TV station show my license plate # on the
six o'clock news? Will they mention my name? It won't be me getting
caught.

-- 'Curly'
  #15  
Old November 25th 05, 10:42 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 1990 civic gas tank leak

On 11/25/05 9:23 AM, in article , "'Curly Q.
Links'" > wrote:

> E Meyer wrote:
>>
>> On 11/24/05 9:55 PM, in article
,
>> "SoCalMike" > wrote:
>>
>>> E Meyer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wrong.
>>>
>>> really? in california, we have signs at all the gas stations saying its
>>> illegal to dispense gasoline into an unapproved container, yadda, yadda,
>>> yadda....
>>>
>>> only makes sense.

>>
>> We have signs in Texas as well about dispensing into unapproved containers,
>> do not get back in car while pumping, turn off cell phones, etc. I have
>> also occasionally seen topping-off on the list of do nots. I have yet to see
>> anything that says its ILLEGAL to top off. If it is, then I estimate
>> somewhere around 99% of drivers using self service gas pumps around here are
>> breaking laws.
>>
>> As I understand it, the manufacturers recommend against it because it can
>> back flow into the charcoal canister and mess up the EFE system (You will
>> get a "check engine" light if this ever happens). The EPA doesn't like it
>> because the little bit that spills on the ground can evaporate into the air.
>> Any explosion risk that might be there is from static sparks and is
>> addressed by the "do not get back in car while pumping gas" admonition
>> (which is also rampantly ignored).
>>
>> The thing I am taking issue with here is the assertion that it is illegal to
>> top off. If that were the case, then self service gas stations would have to
>> be eliminated, since the station owners would be liable for any law breaking
>> done using their property.

>
> --------------------------------
>
> I'm guessing you're not going to phone the fire department, right?
>
> If I cram 60 litres of ice cold gasoline into my CR-V (so there's no
> room for expansion in the tank) and park it on the street in the summer,
> where are you expecting the excess will go when it expands to maybe 64
> litres? Down the nearest sewer drain? That's the kind of calls the fire
> department / hazardous materials team LOVES to get. Where will the city
> send the bill, and will the TV station show my license plate # on the
> six o'clock news? Will they mention my name? It won't be me getting
> caught.
>
> -- 'Curly'


No, I'm not going to call the fire department. For one thing, they are not
responsible for enforcing any laws.

I did just come from the gas station though. The pump has warnings printed
all over it. I took the opportunity to read them. Everything you can
imagine is warned. Nothing about topping off.

I can't remember the TV news ever focusing on the fire department responding
to a dripping car. This whole fire department thing is just silly.

I have lived in Texas for over 30 years. Consequently I know something about
fuel expansion in the summer. I have never seen four liters of expansion
pouring out of a car. In fact, on all four of my current cars ('91 240sx,
'96 I30, '00 TL, and '02 Pathfinder), the pump clicks off within 2 tenths of
a gallon of what they hold when filled to the top of the filler neck. If
its going to expand by 4 liters (essentially a whole gallon), not topping
off isn't going to help. Perhaps you are overestimating expansion?

It may or may not be ill advised to top off a particular car. I have never
seen anything (except your assertion) that has ever said it is illegal to do
so. I guess its possible that it might be (illegal) in Canada. Different
country. No evidence of it here.

  #16  
Old November 26th 05, 05:40 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 1990 civic gas tank leak

E Meyer wrote:
>
> On 11/25/05 9:23 AM, in article , "'Curly Q.
> Links'" > wrote:
>
> > E Meyer wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/24/05 9:55 PM, in article
,
> >> "SoCalMike" > wrote:
> >>
> >>> E Meyer wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Wrong.
> >>>
> >>> really? in california, we have signs at all the gas stations saying its
> >>> illegal to dispense gasoline into an unapproved container, yadda, yadda,
> >>> yadda....
> >>>
> >>> only makes sense.
> >>
> >> We have signs in Texas as well about dispensing into unapproved containers,
> >> do not get back in car while pumping, turn off cell phones, etc. I have
> >> also occasionally seen topping-off on the list of do nots. I have yet to see
> >> anything that says its ILLEGAL to top off. If it is, then I estimate
> >> somewhere around 99% of drivers using self service gas pumps around here are
> >> breaking laws.
> >>
> >> As I understand it, the manufacturers recommend against it because it can
> >> back flow into the charcoal canister and mess up the EFE system (You will
> >> get a "check engine" light if this ever happens). The EPA doesn't like it
> >> because the little bit that spills on the ground can evaporate into the air.
> >> Any explosion risk that might be there is from static sparks and is
> >> addressed by the "do not get back in car while pumping gas" admonition
> >> (which is also rampantly ignored).
> >>
> >> The thing I am taking issue with here is the assertion that it is illegal to
> >> top off. If that were the case, then self service gas stations would have to
> >> be eliminated, since the station owners would be liable for any law breaking
> >> done using their property.

> >
> > --------------------------------
> >
> > I'm guessing you're not going to phone the fire department, right?
> >
> > If I cram 60 litres of ice cold gasoline into my CR-V (so there's no
> > room for expansion in the tank) and park it on the street in the summer,
> > where are you expecting the excess will go when it expands to maybe 64
> > litres? Down the nearest sewer drain? That's the kind of calls the fire
> > department / hazardous materials team LOVES to get. Where will the city
> > send the bill, and will the TV station show my license plate # on the
> > six o'clock news? Will they mention my name? It won't be me getting
> > caught.
> >
> > -- 'Curly'

>
> No, I'm not going to call the fire department. For one thing, they are not
> responsible for enforcing any laws.
>
> I did just come from the gas station though. The pump has warnings printed
> all over it. I took the opportunity to read them. Everything you can
> imagine is warned. Nothing about topping off.
>
> I can't remember the TV news ever focusing on the fire department responding
> to a dripping car. This whole fire department thing is just silly.
>
> I have lived in Texas for over 30 years. Consequently I know something about
> fuel expansion in the summer. I have never seen four liters of expansion
> pouring out of a car. In fact, on all four of my current cars ('91 240sx,
> '96 I30, '00 TL, and '02 Pathfinder), the pump clicks off within 2 tenths of
> a gallon of what they hold when filled to the top of the filler neck. If
> its going to expand by 4 liters (essentially a whole gallon), not topping
> off isn't going to help. Perhaps you are overestimating expansion?
>
> It may or may not be ill advised to top off a particular car. I have never
> seen anything (except your assertion) that has ever said it is illegal to do
> so. I guess its possible that it might be (illegal) in Canada. Different
> country. No evidence of it here.



-------------------------

I'll check with a (veteran) fireman I know. Maybe breaking a 'bylaw'
isn't the same thing as illegal.

'Curly'
  #17  
Old November 26th 05, 04:38 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 1990 civic gas tank leak

On 11/25/05 10:40 PM, in article , "'Curly
Q. Links'" > wrote:

> E Meyer wrote:
>>
>> On 11/25/05 9:23 AM, in article
, "'Curly Q.
>> Links'" > wrote:
>>
>>> E Meyer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 11/24/05 9:55 PM, in article
,
>>>> "SoCalMike" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> E Meyer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> really? in california, we have signs at all the gas stations saying its
>>>>> illegal to dispense gasoline into an unapproved container, yadda, yadda,
>>>>> yadda....
>>>>>
>>>>> only makes sense.
>>>>
>>>> We have signs in Texas as well about dispensing into unapproved containers,
>>>> do not get back in car while pumping, turn off cell phones, etc. I have
>>>> also occasionally seen topping-off on the list of do nots. I have yet to
>>>> see
>>>> anything that says its ILLEGAL to top off. If it is, then I estimate
>>>> somewhere around 99% of drivers using self service gas pumps around here
>>>> are
>>>> breaking laws.
>>>>
>>>> As I understand it, the manufacturers recommend against it because it can
>>>> back flow into the charcoal canister and mess up the EFE system (You will
>>>> get a "check engine" light if this ever happens). The EPA doesn't like it
>>>> because the little bit that spills on the ground can evaporate into the
>>>> air.
>>>> Any explosion risk that might be there is from static sparks and is
>>>> addressed by the "do not get back in car while pumping gas" admonition
>>>> (which is also rampantly ignored).
>>>>
>>>> The thing I am taking issue with here is the assertion that it is illegal
>>>> to
>>>> top off. If that were the case, then self service gas stations would have
>>>> to
>>>> be eliminated, since the station owners would be liable for any law
>>>> breaking
>>>> done using their property.
>>>
>>> --------------------------------
>>>
>>> I'm guessing you're not going to phone the fire department, right?
>>>
>>> If I cram 60 litres of ice cold gasoline into my CR-V (so there's no
>>> room for expansion in the tank) and park it on the street in the summer,
>>> where are you expecting the excess will go when it expands to maybe 64
>>> litres? Down the nearest sewer drain? That's the kind of calls the fire
>>> department / hazardous materials team LOVES to get. Where will the city
>>> send the bill, and will the TV station show my license plate # on the
>>> six o'clock news? Will they mention my name? It won't be me getting
>>> caught.
>>>
>>> -- 'Curly'

>>
>> No, I'm not going to call the fire department. For one thing, they are not
>> responsible for enforcing any laws.
>>
>> I did just come from the gas station though. The pump has warnings printed
>> all over it. I took the opportunity to read them. Everything you can
>> imagine is warned. Nothing about topping off.
>>
>> I can't remember the TV news ever focusing on the fire department responding
>> to a dripping car. This whole fire department thing is just silly.
>>
>> I have lived in Texas for over 30 years. Consequently I know something about
>> fuel expansion in the summer. I have never seen four liters of expansion
>> pouring out of a car. In fact, on all four of my current cars ('91 240sx,
>> '96 I30, '00 TL, and '02 Pathfinder), the pump clicks off within 2 tenths of
>> a gallon of what they hold when filled to the top of the filler neck. If
>> its going to expand by 4 liters (essentially a whole gallon), not topping
>> off isn't going to help. Perhaps you are overestimating expansion?
>>
>> It may or may not be ill advised to top off a particular car. I have never
>> seen anything (except your assertion) that has ever said it is illegal to do
>> so. I guess its possible that it might be (illegal) in Canada. Different
>> country. No evidence of it here.

>
>
> -------------------------
>
> I'll check with a (veteran) fireman I know. Maybe breaking a 'bylaw'
> isn't the same thing as illegal.
>
> 'Curly'


Yeah, you do that. Other than arson investigations, I have yet to meet a
fireman who enforces any laws. It just chafes me when people start getting
so self righteous that whatever they personally decide suddenly becomes
"illegal" for everyone else.

It might be illegal to pour raw gas on the road (if not, it should be).
That is not the same as topping off.

Even at that, you live in a different country from many of the rest of us.
What your laws may or may not be is irrelevant to those of us who don't live
in the same jurisdiction.

  #18  
Old December 13th 05, 04:35 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.honda
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default 1990 civic gas tank leak

Elle wrote:

> "SoCalMike" > wrote
>
>>E Meyer wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Wrong.

>>
>>really? in california, we have signs at all the gas stations saying its
>>illegal to dispense gasoline into an unapproved container, yadda, yadda,
>>yadda....
>>
>>only makes sense.

>
> I've seen similar in other states: Stations won't sell you gas unless it's
> in a certified container.


That's been the case in the 3 states in which I've lived.

> Curly's explanation about why drivers are warned not to overfill gas tanks
> is the first I've seen that makes any sense. Nice to have a reason not to go
> beyond one click now.


This is an especially interesting thread for me because I live in NJ
where it's illegal for drivers to fill their cars (I am not making this
up). IIRC I first saw the warning about not topping off when gas
stations went to vapor recovery equipment, i.e., it's mostly an
environmental concern. Some stations in NJ still top off, although most
let it run until it kicks off automatically & remove the filler then.

Topping off one's tank early in the AM (or otherwise filling with cold
gas) and parking without driving much could cause a puddle of gas as the
cold gas expanded as far back as I can remember (certainly during the
70's with non FI engines). One poster mentioned cold temps with a heated
garage, thus ensuring maximum expansion.
 




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