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e38 - Engine tick / tappet problem??



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 27th 05, 07:51 PM
Paul Aspinall
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Posts: n/a
Default e38 - Engine tick / tappet problem??

Hi
I have a 2000 740.

I have owned 2 previous 740s, and a 745Li.

None of my previous cars have had this behaviour that my latest 740 has
developed.
At idle the car seems to 'tap / tick'. This is noticable up until about
2,500 rpm, where the noise gets drowned out.
I had the car at my local dealership last week, and they said that they
couldn't hear anything wrong. However, I am now convinced that the 'tick'
shouldn't be there. A friend of mine is a mechanic for SAAB, and thinks it
may be one of the hydraulic tappets... (?)

I can particularly hear the noise when the climate unit is off (ie. no other
fans blocking the noise), and sat in the drivers seat with the window down.
I've listened with my head under the bonnet, and it definately seems like
there is a tap from the left hand bank of 4 cylinders (although it may be
something else). However, the noise is definately from the left hand side of
the car when facing it (ie. the right hand side, when sat in it).

Something which may (or may not) be linked, is that there is an 'oil spot'
on one of the cylinder head bolts, on the left hand bank (ie. the noisy
side)

Has anyone else had this problem?? Can you suggest what it is??
My BMW warranty expires on Sunday!!! but the car is booked back in to the
dealership tomorrow, so I am going to insist they look again (as they said
that nothing was wrong when the car was there last week).

Any help / advice appreciated.

Thanks


Ads
  #2  
Old July 27th 05, 08:21 PM
Malt_Hound
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Paul Aspinall wrote:
> Hi
> I have a 2000 740.
>
> I have owned 2 previous 740s, and a 745Li.
>
> None of my previous cars have had this behaviour that my latest 740 has
> developed.
> At idle the car seems to 'tap / tick'. This is noticable up until about
> 2,500 rpm, where the noise gets drowned out.
> I had the car at my local dealership last week, and they said that they
> couldn't hear anything wrong. However, I am now convinced that the 'tick'
> shouldn't be there. A friend of mine is a mechanic for SAAB, and thinks it
> may be one of the hydraulic tappets... (?)
>
> I can particularly hear the noise when the climate unit is off (ie. no other
> fans blocking the noise), and sat in the drivers seat with the window down.
> I've listened with my head under the bonnet, and it definately seems like
> there is a tap from the left hand bank of 4 cylinders (although it may be
> something else). However, the noise is definately from the left hand side of
> the car when facing it (ie. the right hand side, when sat in it).
>
> Something which may (or may not) be linked, is that there is an 'oil spot'
> on one of the cylinder head bolts, on the left hand bank (ie. the noisy
> side)
>
> Has anyone else had this problem?? Can you suggest what it is??
> My BMW warranty expires on Sunday!!! but the car is booked back in to the
> dealership tomorrow, so I am going to insist they look again (as they said
> that nothing was wrong when the car was there last week).
>
> Any help / advice appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>



Yeah, a ticking at idle that goes away at higher rpm usually signifies a
bad hydraulic lifter. Get the noise documented while under warranty so
that you can get it addressed if it gets worse later.

What sort of oil are you using in this engine? Have you been religious
with the changes?

-Fred W
  #3  
Old July 27th 05, 09:50 PM
Paul Aspinall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks for the reply to this one.

I'm going to push the dealer to fix it. I'll also report it to BMW warranty
also.

How much do you think this would normally cost to fix, if I had to pay for
it??

Thanks



"Malt_Hound" > wrote in message
...
> Paul Aspinall wrote:
>> Hi
>> I have a 2000 740.
>>
>> I have owned 2 previous 740s, and a 745Li.
>>
>> None of my previous cars have had this behaviour that my latest 740 has
>> developed.
>> At idle the car seems to 'tap / tick'. This is noticable up until about
>> 2,500 rpm, where the noise gets drowned out.
>> I had the car at my local dealership last week, and they said that they
>> couldn't hear anything wrong. However, I am now convinced that the 'tick'
>> shouldn't be there. A friend of mine is a mechanic for SAAB, and thinks
>> it may be one of the hydraulic tappets... (?)
>>
>> I can particularly hear the noise when the climate unit is off (ie. no
>> other fans blocking the noise), and sat in the drivers seat with the
>> window down.
>> I've listened with my head under the bonnet, and it definately seems like
>> there is a tap from the left hand bank of 4 cylinders (although it may be
>> something else). However, the noise is definately from the left hand side
>> of the car when facing it (ie. the right hand side, when sat in it).
>>
>> Something which may (or may not) be linked, is that there is an 'oil
>> spot' on one of the cylinder head bolts, on the left hand bank (ie. the
>> noisy side)
>>
>> Has anyone else had this problem?? Can you suggest what it is??
>> My BMW warranty expires on Sunday!!! but the car is booked back in to the
>> dealership tomorrow, so I am going to insist they look again (as they
>> said that nothing was wrong when the car was there last week).
>>
>> Any help / advice appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>

>
>
> Yeah, a ticking at idle that goes away at higher rpm usually signifies a
> bad hydraulic lifter. Get the noise documented while under warranty so
> that you can get it addressed if it gets worse later.
>
> What sort of oil are you using in this engine? Have you been religious
> with the changes?
>
> -Fred W



  #4  
Old July 27th 05, 10:19 PM
J Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Not to toss goo into the ointment here, but a serpentine belt can make a
clicking noise that sounds just like a tappet. The problem may not be
anywhere near as serious as you are thinking.

I can't imagine your car having sticky lifters at this early age. If it does
in fact have lifter problems, the odds are very good that a chemcial
treatment will fix it. When I was a kid, it was common practice to used a
pint or so of automatic transmission fluid in the crankcase to free sticky
lifters. The problem in those days is largely gone from the picture, but
tarnish from the oil would clog the passages inside the lifter, and prevent
the moving parts from moving freely. The ATF is highly detergent, and would
clean the tarnish, allowing the lifters to operate freely again.

Today, they use stuff like Marvel Mystery Oil to accomplish the same goal.

Usually the sticky lifter will free itself as the motor warms up. If yours
continue ticking, then I'd be looking at the belts before the lifters. There
is Belt Dressing that can be applied, but the belts should probably be
replaced.




"Paul Aspinall" > wrote in message
. uk...
> Hi
> I have a 2000 740.
>
> I have owned 2 previous 740s, and a 745Li.
>
> None of my previous cars have had this behaviour that my latest 740 has
> developed.
> At idle the car seems to 'tap / tick'. This is noticable up until about
> 2,500 rpm, where the noise gets drowned out.
> I had the car at my local dealership last week, and they said that they
> couldn't hear anything wrong. However, I am now convinced that the 'tick'
> shouldn't be there. A friend of mine is a mechanic for SAAB, and thinks it
> may be one of the hydraulic tappets... (?)
>
> I can particularly hear the noise when the climate unit is off (ie. no
> other fans blocking the noise), and sat in the drivers seat with the
> window down.
> I've listened with my head under the bonnet, and it definately seems like
> there is a tap from the left hand bank of 4 cylinders (although it may be
> something else). However, the noise is definately from the left hand side
> of the car when facing it (ie. the right hand side, when sat in it).
>
> Something which may (or may not) be linked, is that there is an 'oil spot'
> on one of the cylinder head bolts, on the left hand bank (ie. the noisy
> side)
>
> Has anyone else had this problem?? Can you suggest what it is??
> My BMW warranty expires on Sunday!!! but the car is booked back in to the
> dealership tomorrow, so I am going to insist they look again (as they said
> that nothing was wrong when the car was there last week).
>
> Any help / advice appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
>



  #5  
Old July 28th 05, 02:48 PM
Malt_Hound
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Paul Aspinall wrote:
> Thanks for the reply to this one.
>
> I'm going to push the dealer to fix it. I'll also report it to BMW warranty
> also.
>
> How much do you think this would normally cost to fix, if I had to pay for
> it??
>
> Thanks


No idea, sorry. I do all of my own wrnech turning so I have nary a clue
what they'd charge you, but the labor charges would be sizeable.

-Fred W
  #6  
Old July 28th 05, 02:51 PM
Malt_Hound
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

J Strickland wrote:
> Not to toss goo into the ointment here, but a serpentine belt can make a
> clicking noise that sounds just like a tappet. The problem may not be
> anywhere near as serious as you are thinking.
>
> I can't imagine your car having sticky lifters at this early age. If it does
> in fact have lifter problems, the odds are very good that a chemcial
> treatment will fix it. When I was a kid, it was common practice to used a
> pint or so of automatic transmission fluid in the crankcase to free sticky
> lifters. The problem in those days is largely gone from the picture, but
> tarnish from the oil would clog the passages inside the lifter, and prevent
> the moving parts from moving freely. The ATF is highly detergent, and would
> clean the tarnish, allowing the lifters to operate freely again.
>
> Today, they use stuff like Marvel Mystery Oil to accomplish the same goal.
>
> Usually the sticky lifter will free itself as the motor warms up. If yours
> continue ticking, then I'd be looking at the belts before the lifters. There
> is Belt Dressing that can be applied, but the belts should probably be
> replaced.


He could just run the engine for a *short* time with the serpentine belt
off to see if the ticking is gone.

I assume (ass-u-me) that he (or anyone for that matter) could tell the
difference between a ticking sound coming from outside the engine and
one from inside. They do sound quite different...

-Fred W
  #7  
Old July 28th 05, 04:19 PM
Paul Aspinall
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks again.

The car has gone in again today. This time, I had the head service tech come
with me and listen to the engine.
He could hear it this week.... despite the other guy claiming he couldn't
hear it last week.

He said they should be able to take care of it, under BMW extended
warranty...... lets hope so!!!




"Malt_Hound" > wrote in message
...
>J Strickland wrote:
>> Not to toss goo into the ointment here, but a serpentine belt can make a
>> clicking noise that sounds just like a tappet. The problem may not be
>> anywhere near as serious as you are thinking.
>>
>> I can't imagine your car having sticky lifters at this early age. If it
>> does in fact have lifter problems, the odds are very good that a chemcial
>> treatment will fix it. When I was a kid, it was common practice to used a
>> pint or so of automatic transmission fluid in the crankcase to free
>> sticky lifters. The problem in those days is largely gone from the
>> picture, but tarnish from the oil would clog the passages inside the
>> lifter, and prevent the moving parts from moving freely. The ATF is
>> highly detergent, and would clean the tarnish, allowing the lifters to
>> operate freely again.
>>
>> Today, they use stuff like Marvel Mystery Oil to accomplish the same
>> goal.
>>
>> Usually the sticky lifter will free itself as the motor warms up. If
>> yours continue ticking, then I'd be looking at the belts before the
>> lifters. There is Belt Dressing that can be applied, but the belts should
>> probably be replaced.

>
> He could just run the engine for a *short* time with the serpentine belt
> off to see if the ticking is gone.
>
> I assume (ass-u-me) that he (or anyone for that matter) could tell the
> difference between a ticking sound coming from outside the engine and one
> from inside. They do sound quite different...
>
> -Fred W



  #8  
Old July 29th 05, 11:22 PM
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Malt_Hound" > wrote in message
...
>J Strickland wrote:
>> Not to toss goo into the ointment here, but a serpentine belt can make a
>> clicking noise that sounds just like a tappet. The problem may not be
>> anywhere near as serious as you are thinking.
>>
>> I can't imagine your car having sticky lifters at this early age. If it
>> does in fact have lifter problems, the odds are very good that a chemcial
>> treatment will fix it. When I was a kid, it was common practice to used a
>> pint or so of automatic transmission fluid in the crankcase to free
>> sticky lifters. The problem in those days is largely gone from the
>> picture, but tarnish from the oil would clog the passages inside the
>> lifter, and prevent the moving parts from moving freely. The ATF is
>> highly detergent, and would clean the tarnish, allowing the lifters to
>> operate freely again.
>>
>> Today, they use stuff like Marvel Mystery Oil to accomplish the same
>> goal.
>>
>> Usually the sticky lifter will free itself as the motor warms up. If
>> yours continue ticking, then I'd be looking at the belts before the
>> lifters. There is Belt Dressing that can be applied, but the belts should
>> probably be replaced.

>
> He could just run the engine for a *short* time with the serpentine belt
> off to see if the ticking is gone.
>
> I assume (ass-u-me) that he (or anyone for that matter) could tell the
> difference between a ticking sound coming from outside the engine and one
> from inside. They do sound quite different...
>



I would have thunk that too, but when I asked my mechanic to take a look at
the noisy valves, he put some belt dressing on. It sounded just like a valve
lifter to me, and I have a pretty good ear for this sort of stuff. Surely if
one had a lesser ear than I, they would have thought the valves were making
noise.

I agree thought that this is probably not the case, and the valves really
are noisy. But, before dumping the check book into the valve train, it might
be worth a shot of belt dressing. Just a thought.





  #9  
Old August 2nd 05, 01:07 PM
djtep
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hi Paul.

I've just recently placed my car in to fix this problem.

I own a 1993 BMW 318i E36.

I had to replace:

· Camshaft

· Rockers

· Tappets

The job cost me $1800 including labour!

I, as the owner, was most likely the cause i.e. infrequent oil changes. My
mechanic (who I do trust, and has done very good maintenance on this car)
advises that on BMW cars, every 6 months, or 10000 kilometers, whichever
somes first, is the interval for oil changes. Also, the spraybar must be
cleaned at every oil change. In the BMW, there is a tendency for the holes
in the spraybar to clog up; thus causing the expensive problem that I had.

I envy you if you can get this repair on warranty.

I had exactly the same symptoms as you.

I used to leave the air-conditioner on high and the windows up to drown out
the noise. Of course, it started to anny me when drivers passing by would
start laughing at me and the car ;-(

Kind Regards,

--
Jason Tepoorten
@HOME
+61 433 176 821 (mobile telephone)

8MP
Australia

"Malt_Hound" > wrote in message
...
> Paul Aspinall wrote:
> > Thanks for the reply to this one.
> >
> > I'm going to push the dealer to fix it. I'll also report it to BMW

warranty
> > also.
> >
> > How much do you think this would normally cost to fix, if I had to pay

for
> > it??
> >
> > Thanks

>
> No idea, sorry. I do all of my own wrnech turning so I have nary a clue
> what they'd charge you, but the labor charges would be sizeable.
>
> -Fred W



 




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