Is This The Magic Battery?

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:25:44 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
> wrote:

>On Oct 29, 2:49*pm, Dave Head > wrote:
>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:13:56 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >On Oct 29, 4:30 am, Dave__67 > wrote:
>> >> On Oct 29, 6:59 am, Dave Head > wrote:
>>
>> >> >http://www.caradvice.com.au/89483/au...cle-sets-600km...
>>
>> >> > Maybe, if it doesn't cost a million dollars. These guys have run a
>> >> > car for about 400 miles on a single battery charge at around 70 - 80
>> >> > mph. That's awesome if true. It could be America's way out of buying
>> >> > foreign oil, and greatly reducing ur operating costs.
>>
>> >> > My Subaru WRX gets 25 mpg on a typical long trip. A Chevy Volt goes
>> >> > 40 miles on a 10 KwH charge. Around here, 10 KwH costs 62 1/2 cents.
>> >> > The WRX takes premium and costs about $4.72 to go 40 miles. Big
>> >> > difference. Maybe we have cheap transportation again? CAFE
>> >> > standards? Unncessary. And we have absolutely oceans of domestic
>> >> > natural gas to build clean power generation for these cars.
>>
>> >> > Just hope its real.
>>
>> >> liPos are great- use them in my model airplane.
>> >> Very light, awesome capacity.
>>
>> >> They have a huge downside though- physical trauma tends to make them,
>> >> well, explode.
>> >> So does overcharging.
>>
>> >> They are also damaged if they are discharged beyond a certain point.
>>
>> >> Dave
>>
>> >I haven't really dug into the electrics but I don't see them ever
>> >replacing IC powered, augmenting, yes. *I would love to have one but
>> >it would have to be a 3rd vehicle and used just for local trips
>> >(within around 40 miles).
>>
>> Howcum? *Why would you not want to jump in it and drive it from, say,
>> New York to Las Vegas?
>
>Right after you. You are aware we are discussing _electric_ cars?

Yeah. You did read the original post of this thread, right?
>
>>
>> >I live in a sparsely populated farming
>> >rural area withing 4 miles of town but that town is less that 2,000
>> >pop and thus shopping is limited. *Nearest real shopping (and it is
>> >not all that great) is a 60 mile round trip.
>>
>> Well, they just drove this particular car 400 miles without refueling,
>> sooo... what's the problem?
>>
>
>"this car"? Care to give a cite. I am sure they did it but I'll bet
>they did some things that aren't practical.

Its in the original post of this thread.

>And people have driven IC cars to get extremely high mileage. Their
>methods would not be allowed in normal traffic.

No, they just chugged down the highway like any other car.

>> >Electrics, even the current ones, should do fine in an urban setting
>> >but the price is going to have to come down.
>>
>> Oh, yeah, the price has to come down... but the *cost of fuel is a big
>> mitigating factor.
>>
>
>As is replacing a battery pack and you still wind up with limited
>range.

So? You have limited range in a regular car too, until you fill the
gas tank again...

>
>Harry K

On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 21:50:24 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
> wrote:

>On Oct 29, 8:59*pm, Lil Abner > wrote:
>> On 10/29/2010 11:19 PM, Dave Head wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 23:00:15 -0400, Lil > *wrote:
>>
>> >> On 10/29/2010 6:59 AM, Dave Head wrote:
>> >>>http://www.caradvice.com.au/89483/au...cle-sets-600km...
>>
>> >>> Maybe, if it doesn't cost a million dollars. *These guys have run a
>> >>> car for about 400 miles on a single battery charge at around 70 - 80
>> >>> mph. *That's awesome if true. *It could be America's way out of buying
>> >>> foreign oil, and greatly reducing ur operating costs.
>>
>> >>> My Subaru WRX gets 25 mpg on a typical long trip. *A Chevy Volt goes
>> >>> 40 miles on a 10 KwH charge. *Around here, 10 KwH costs 62 1/2 cents.
>> >>> The WRX takes premium and costs about $4.72 to go 40 miles. *Big
>> >>> difference. *Maybe we have cheap transportation again? *CAFE
>> >>> standards? *Unncessary. *And we have absolutely oceans of domestic
>> >>> natural gas to build clean power generation for these cars.
>>
>> >>> Just hope its real.
>> >> I wouldn't want to be in an accident sitting on top of a huge lithium
>> >> ion battery/bomb.
>>
>> > I don't much care for the idea of being in an accident and sitting on
>> > top of a huge gasoline tank bomb, either. *But that's what's in my
>> > car... probably your car too.
>>
>> Tank won't explode unless it is just vapors in there and a lot of oxygen.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Truth is you can't even get a fire started inside a gas tank unless
>those conditions apply.
>
>Mythbusters did everyting they could think of to get one to blow -
>nothing worked. Fires _outside_ the tank yes but even then just
>fires.
>
>Harry K

Probably rather be blown up than roasted anway... better idea is not
to hit anything.

On Oct 29, 11:00*pm, Lil Abner > wrote:
> On 10/29/2010 6:59 AM, Dave Head wrote:>http://www.caradvice.com.au/89483/au...cle-sets-600km...
>
> > Maybe, if it doesn't cost a million dollars. *These guys have run a
> > car for about 400 miles on a single battery charge at around 70 - 80
> > mph. *That's awesome if true. *It could be America's way out of buying
> > foreign oil, and greatly reducing ur operating costs.
>
> > My Subaru WRX gets 25 mpg on a typical long trip. *A Chevy Volt goes
> > 40 miles on a 10 KwH charge. *Around here, 10 KwH costs 62 1/2 cents.
> > The WRX takes premium and costs about $4.72 to go 40 miles. *Big
> > difference. *Maybe we have cheap transportation again? *CAFE
> > standards? *Unncessary. *And we have absolutely oceans of domestic
> > natural gas to build clean power generation for these cars.
>
> > Just hope its real.
>
> I wouldn't want to be in an accident sitting on top of a huge lithium
> ion battery/bomb.

The lithium ion battery isn't the answer.

---
Mark

On Oct 29, 10:51*pm, (Matthew Russotto)
wrote:
> In article >,
> Dave Head > wrote:
>
> >http://www.caradvice.com.au/89483/au...cle-sets-600km...
>
> >Maybe, if it doesn't cost a million dollars. *These guys have run a
> >car for about 400 miles on a single battery charge at around 70 - 80
> >mph. *That's awesome if true. *It could be America's way out of buying
> >foreign oil, and greatly reducing ur operating costs.
>
> LiPos are great, but the problem of catching fire when they are
> punctured likely means that a lot more weight (for various safety
> measures) will be required in a production car. *Further, LiPos have a
> fairly short lifetime and can't be safely charged quickly.
>
> --
> The problem with socialism is there's always
> someone with less ability and more need.

First, get up to speed on the new type of lithium
batteries that are a different technology than the
old lithium batteries. Then, listen to what I'm telling
you. With nanoengineering, batteries have already
been invented that are 10 times more powerful
than the newest batteries being used today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCkXwwEC2p8

---
Mark

On Oct 29, 9:38*pm, Brent > wrote:

> > Furthermore, we will be totally out of coal, oil, and
> > natural gas in 30 years when the world population
> > exceeds 9 billion people. Most animals will be
> > extinct by that time. The glaciers will have already
> > melted, and the rivers which come from them will
> > stop running, leaving billions of environmental
> > refugees to wander the globe with weapons as
> > the carrying capacity of earth is collapsing down
> > to one billion people.
>
> We are already well past the doomsday dates that were set in the early
> 70s. That should be proof enough for anyone not to listen to such
> scaremongering nonsense.

I'm not talking nonsense or scaremongering. Yes there
have always been prognosticators preaching from a
pulpit of fear, or insanity, and not based on math or
science.

Listen to what I'm telling you.

America is going to be invaded across the Mexican
border by armed gangs too numerous to stop. There
are going to be BILLIONS, not millions, of ecology
refugees when the glaciers are gone in just a few
years.

What do you think will happen when these two
glacier rivers disappear??

"The Yangtze River, or Chang Jiang is the longest river in Asia, and
the third-longest in the world. It flows for 6,300 kilometres (3,915
mi) from the glaciers on the Tibetan Plateau in Qinghai eastward
across southwest, central and eastern China before emptying into the
East China Sea at Shanghai."

"The Mekong is one of the world’s major rivers. It is the world's 12th-
longest river[1] and the 7th-longest in Asia. Its estimated length is
4,350 km (2,703 mi), and it drains an area of 795,000 km2 (307,000 sq
mi)[2], discharging 475 km3 (114 cu mi) of water annually."

Does anyone here have a clue how many billions of
people will come to America and Europe due to this?

And this is just ONE OF THE PROBLEMS right around
the corner from today.

---
Mark

On Oct 29, 9:38*pm, Brent > wrote:
> On 2010-10-30, Mark > wrote:
>
> > I frequently write on this topic, so I'll just give you
> > all the short version. The IC engine will absolutely and
> > totally be replaced by the electric motor, and this
> > includes...yes...aviation. There are already proof of
> > concept batteries, not yet in production, that will go
> > 10 times further than the ones shown in this original
> > post. They contain no metal and have a higher energy
> > density than petroleum. These new batteries are
> > nano engineered, and self-assemble at the atomic
> > level.
>
> I agree eventually electric will win out, but that will be due to
> exploiting other natural energy sources (think things like dark
> energy, nuclear fusion, etc and so on), not batteries.

No, the answer is simply...water. You can split out
the hydrogen now with very low DC voltage and run it
through a hydrogen fuel cell to produce clean electricity.

People have been electrolyzing water for a hundred
years, but it always took a huge amount of power to
do it, and it gave off much heat. Now it's being done
using cobalt catalysts such that the recombining
molecules and resulting electricity therein, actually
yield more power than it took to split it. No I'm not
suggesting "over unity", or breaking the law of
thermodynamics. The energy was already there
locked in the original molecule.

This is biggest breakthrough in the world today.

---
Mark

On Oct 29, 11:08*pm, Dave Head > wrote:

> The longevity will need to be improved, tho.

It's already been done on a magnitude which
exceeds petroleum. (which will be depleted
in 20 years anyway)

How about 500 miles on a 10 minute charge?
Does that work for ya?

---
Mark

On Oct 30, 12:25*am, Harry K > wrote:
> On Oct 29, 2:49*pm, Dave Head > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:13:56 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>
> > > wrote:
> > >On Oct 29, 4:30 am, Dave__67 > wrote:
> > >> On Oct 29, 6:59 am, Dave Head > wrote:
>
> > >> >http://www.caradvice.com.au/89483/au...cle-sets-600km...
>
> > >> > Maybe, if it doesn't cost a million dollars. These guys have run a
> > >> > car for about 400 miles on a single battery charge at around 70 - 80
> > >> > mph. That's awesome if true. It could be America's way out of buying
> > >> > foreign oil, and greatly reducing ur operating costs.
>
> > >> > My Subaru WRX gets 25 mpg on a typical long trip. A Chevy Volt goes
> > >> > 40 miles on a 10 KwH charge. Around here, 10 KwH costs 62 1/2 cents.
> > >> > The WRX takes premium and costs about $4.72 to go 40 miles. Big
> > >> > difference. Maybe we have cheap transportation again? CAFE
> > >> > standards? Unncessary. And we have absolutely oceans of domestic
> > >> > natural gas to build clean power generation for these cars.
>
> > >> > Just hope its real.
>
> > >> liPos are great- use them in my model airplane.
> > >> Very light, awesome capacity.
>
> > >> They have a huge downside though- physical trauma tends to make them,
> > >> well, explode.
> > >> So does overcharging.
>
> > >> They are also damaged if they are discharged beyond a certain point.
>
> > >> Dave
>
> > >I haven't really dug into the electrics but I don't see them ever
> > >replacing IC powered, augmenting, yes. *I would love to have one but
> > >it would have to be a 3rd vehicle and used just for local trips
> > >(within around 40 miles).
>
> > Howcum? *Why would you not want to jump in it and drive it from, say,
> > New York to Las Vegas?
>
> Right after you. *You are aware we are discussing _electric_ cars?
>
>
>
> > >I live in a sparsely populated farming
> > >rural area withing 4 miles of town but that town is less that 2,000
> > >pop and thus shopping is limited. *Nearest real shopping (and it is
> > >not all that great) is a 60 mile round trip.
>
> > Well, they just drove this particular car 400 miles without refueling,
> > sooo... what's the problem?
>
> "this car"? *Care to give a cite.

LOL! Give a cite? LOL! How do you think this
thread was started? (by a link on the topic)

> *I am sure they did it but I'll bet
> they did some things that aren't practical.

I'll take that bet. How much should we transfer
to Paypay? Winner take all.

> And people have driven IC cars to get extremely high mileage.

Petroleum will be depleted in 20 years.

>*Their
> methods would not be allowed in normal traffic.

Fortunately electric cars don't have to coast and go 35mph.
They can easily outperform any IC engine, and do it without
stinking up the planet and increasing global warming.

> > >Electrics, even the current ones, should do fine in an urban
setting
> > >but the price is going to have to come down.

The price will come down with mass production and
education of the public about their far superior performance.

> > Oh, yeah, the price has to come down... but the *cost of fuel is
a big
> > mitigating factor.
>
> As is replacing a battery pack and you still wind up with limited
> range.

The range problem is solved. There will be no battery pack
replacement involved.

--
Mark


> Harry K- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On Oct 30, 12:44*am, Harry K > wrote:
> On Oct 29, 7:52*am, richard > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 06:59:07 -0400, Dave Head wrote:
> > >http://www.caradvice.com.au/89483/au...cle-sets-600km....
>
> > > Maybe, if it doesn't cost a million dollars. *These guys have run a
> > > car for about 400 miles on a single battery charge at around 70 - 80
> > > mph. *That's awesome if true. *It could be America's way out of buying
> > > foreign oil, and greatly reducing ur operating costs.
>
> > > My Subaru WRX gets 25 mpg on a typical long trip. *A Chevy Volt goes
> > > 40 miles on a 10 KwH charge. *Around here, 10 KwH costs 62 1/2 cents.
> > > The WRX takes premium and costs about $4.72 to go 40 miles. *Big
> > > difference. *Maybe we have cheap transportation again? *CAFE
> > > standards? *Unncessary. *And we have absolutely oceans of domestic
> > > natural gas to build clean power generation for these cars.
>
> > > Just hope its real.
>
> > Sure it's real. Just don't expect the vehicle to show up on the sales floor
> > in the USA in the next 50 years or so. As the big four auto makers in the
> > USA will keep it from being imported.
>
> > We could have had similar cars already in production and being sold. But
> > because the big four are not willing to change, they will not even begin
> > the production of such vehicles.
>
> > Why do you think we do not have engines that get 100mpg? Although the
> > technology is here to do it. It is a conspiracy between the big four and
> > OPEC to keep producing gas guzzlers.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> ROFLMAO!
>
> Harry K

I'll have to roll on the floor and laugh with you Harry.
The auto companies are well aware of what is coming
and they are scrambling to convert over to electric as
fast as they can now.

---
Mark

Dave Head > wrote in
:

> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 18:45:14 -0500, Jim Yanik >
> wrote:
>
>>Dave Head > wrote in
>>news >>
>>> On Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:13:56 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Oct 29, 4:30*am, Dave__67 > wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 29, 6:59*am, Dave Head > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >http://www.caradvice.com.au/89483/au...ehicle-sets-60
>>>>> >0k m...
>>>>>
>>>>> > Maybe, if it doesn't cost a million dollars. *These guys have
>>>>> > run a car for about 400 miles on a single battery charge at
>>>>> > around 70 - 80 mph. *That's awesome if true. *It could be
>>>>> > America's way out of buying foreign oil, and greatly reducing ur
>>>>> > operating costs.
>>>>>
>>>>> > My Subaru WRX gets 25 mpg on a typical long trip. *A Chevy Volt
>>>>> > goes 40 miles on a 10 KwH charge. *Around here, 10 KwH costs 62
>>>>> > 1/2 cents. The WRX takes premium and costs about $4.72 to go 40
>>>>> > miles. *Big difference. *Maybe we have cheap transportation
>>>>> > again? *CAFE standards? *Unncessary. *And we have absolutely
>>>>> > oceans of domestic natural gas to build clean power generation
>>>>> > for these cars.
>>
>>better to use nuclear electric plants and save the hydrocarbons for
>>industrial feedstocks. nukes don't emit any pollution.
>>>>>
>>>>> > Just hope its real.
>>>>>
>>>>> liPos are great- use them in *my model airplane.
>>>>> Very light, awesome capacity.
>>>>>
>>>>> They have a huge downside though- physical trauma tends to make
>>>>> them, well, explode.
>>>>> So does overcharging.
>>>>>
>>>>> They are also damaged if they are discharged beyond a certain
>>>>> point.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>I haven't really dug into the electrics but I don't see them ever
>>>>replacing IC powered, augmenting, yes. I would love to have one but
>>>>it would have to be a 3rd vehicle and used just for local trips
>>>>(within around 40 miles).
>>>
>>> Howcum? Why would you not want to jump in it and drive it from,
>>> say, New York to Las Vegas?
>>
>>because you'd have to recharge it overnight after every 400 miles.(and
>>more likely less than 400 miles)
>
> No, you don't. You pull into a fueling station and they remove your
> discharged battery and install a fully charged battery. The car will
> be made to allow this change to be performed rapidly.

LMAO;
you think every service station is going to keep enough exchange battery
packs for every make and model of vehicle? Enough to cover the traffic
volume every day? Or that the station you stop at will have their packs
fully charged and ready whenever you drop in?
Imagine the investment each station would require.
You also probably think that automakers are going to standardize the
battery packs so one or two models fit all the different makes and models.
GULLIBLE.

then there's the cost of having a person do the exchange,in addition to the
costs of electricity for recharging.
>
>>I can drive a LOT farther than 400 miles before needing several hours
>>off.
>
> Probably less than 2 minutes.
>
>>Most people can only afford one car for all their driving,not one for
>>short trips and another for long distance.
>
> Right. That's why electrics have to be built to go far on a charge
> and refuel quickly.

And they ARE NOT being designed that way.
EVERY electric vehicle made today and for the near future is being designed
with a built-in pack,not designed for quick-change.
Buried in the middle of the car.

>>
>>>
>>>>I live in a sparsely populated farming
>>>>rural area withing 4 miles of town but that town is less that 2,000
>>>>pop and thus shopping is limited. Nearest real shopping (and it is
>>>>not all that great) is a 60 mile round trip.
>>>
>>> Well, they just drove this particular car 400 miles without
>>> refueling, sooo... what's the problem?
>>
>>The car will not always get that same mileage from a single charge.
>>Particularly with passengers,or for not-flat terrain.
>
> They were doing 70 - 80 mph. That's a pretty big air drag, far
> exceeding the effect of passenger mass on intermittant accleration
> inefficiencies.

But they STILL were NOT tested that way.
>
>>You also will not always be starting off with a full charge.
>
> Go as far as it will, change out the battery. On the road again in
> about 3 minutes.
Yeah,you start out with a pack with an unknown charge level,and there'll be
a station within range when you need it,Suuuuure.
Dream on.
>
>>and if the battery does deplete,you're STUCK for several hours.
>
> No, you get to a fueling station and change the battery. The fueling
> station recharges that battery offline, for hours but gives you a
> battery that they charged last night.
>

So you get stuck with a pack that somebody else may have abused or is
reaching the end of it's life(and thus have shorter range).great.
I think you will find that nobody has made any system that can tell you how
many charges you have left on a battery pack.

>>and you'll need a charging point at the other end of your journey.
>
> Yep, just like a regular gas station. Shouldn't be a problem to build
> 'em pretty much everywhere.

yeah,there's just SO much surplus generating capacity available.
(NOT!)
>
>>>>Electrics, even the current ones, should do fine in an urban setting
>>>>but the price is going to have to come down.
>>>
>>> Oh, yeah, the price has to come down... but the cost of fuel is a
>>> big mitigating factor.
>>
>>the price of gas is artificially high because of political reasons.
>
> Nowhere close to what it is in Europe, tho.
>

They have to pay for their socialism somehow.And surrender a bit more of
their freedoms.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com